From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Davide Libenzi <davidel@xmailserver.org>
Cc: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>, Ulrich Drepper <drepper@redhat.com>,
Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Arjan van de Ven <arjan@infradead.org>,
Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@zip.com.au>,
Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
Zach Brown <zach.brown@oracle.com>,
Evgeniy Polyakov <johnpol@2ka.mipt.ru>,
"David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
Suparna Bhattacharya <suparna@in.ibm.com>,
Jens Axboe <jens.axboe@oracle.com>,
Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
Subject: Re: [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:42:27 -0800 (PST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0702280836080.12485@woody.linux-foundation.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0702280740250.5935@alien.or.mcafeemobile.com>
On Wed, 28 Feb 2007, Davide Libenzi wrote:
>
> At this point, given how threadlets can be easily/effectively dispatched
> from userspace, I'd argue the presence of either single/parallel or syslet
> submission altogether. Threadlets allows you to code chains *way* more
> naturally than syslets, and since they basically are like functions calls
> in the fast path, they can be used even for single/parallel submissions.
Well, I agree, except for one thing:
- user space execution is *inherently* more expensive.
Why? Stack. Stack. Stack.
If you support threadlets with user space code, it means that you need a
separate user-space stack for each threadlet. That's a potentially *big*
cost to bear, both from a setup standpoint and from simply a memory
allocation standpoint.
Quite frankly, I think threadlets are a great idea, but I think the lack
of user-level footprint is *also* a great idea, and you should support
both.
In short - the only thing I *don't* think is a great idea are those linked
lists of atoms. I still think it's a pretty horrible interface, and I
still don't think it really buys us very much. The only way it would buy
us a lot is to change the linked lists dynamically (ie add new events at
the end while old events are still executing), but quite frankly, that
just makes the whole interface *even*worse* and just makes me have
debugging nightmares (I'm also not even convinced it really would help
us: we might avoid some costs of adding new events, but it would only
avoid them for serial execution, and if the whole point of this is to
execute things in parallel, that's a stupid thing to do).
So I would repeat my call for getting rid of the atoms, and instead just
do a "single submission" at a time. Do the linking by running a threadlet
that has user space code (and the stack overhead), which is MUCH more
flexible. And do nonlinked single system calls without *either* atoms *or*
a user-space stack footprint.
Please?
What am I missing?
Linus
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-02-28 16:50 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 353+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2007-02-21 21:13 [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:14 ` [patch 01/13] syslets: add async.h include file, kernel-side API definitions Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 02/13] syslets: add syslet.h include file, user API/ABI definitions Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 03/13] syslets: generic kernel bits Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 04/13] syslets: core code Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 23:08 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-24 7:04 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-24 21:10 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-24 22:08 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-02-24 22:25 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-25 7:59 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 05/13] syslets: core, documentation Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 21:32 ` Randy Dunlap
2007-02-27 6:20 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 06/13] x86: split FPU state from task state Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 07/13] syslets: x86, add create_async_thread() method Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 08/13] syslets: x86, add move_user_context() method Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 23:03 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-21 23:20 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 4:10 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 09/13] syslets: x86, mark async unsafe syscalls Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 10/13] syslets: x86: enable ASYNC_SUPPORT Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 11/13] syslets: x86, wire up the syslet system calls Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:15 ` [patch 12/13] syslets: x86: optimized copy_uatom() Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 21:16 ` [patch 13/13] syslets: x86: optimized sys_umem_add() Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 22:46 ` [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 22:57 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 0:53 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 1:33 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 6:51 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 8:59 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 19:52 ` x86 hardware and transputers (Re: [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3) Oleg Verych
2007-02-22 20:45 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 23:03 ` [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 23:24 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 0:55 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 23:31 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-21 23:46 ` Ulrich Drepper
2007-02-22 7:40 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 11:31 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-22 11:52 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-22 12:39 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-22 13:41 ` David Miller
2007-02-22 14:31 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 14:47 ` David Miller
2007-02-22 15:02 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-22 15:15 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 15:29 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 17:17 ` David Miller
2007-02-23 11:12 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 20:13 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-22 21:30 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-22 14:59 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 21:42 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 14:53 ` Avi Kivity
2007-02-22 12:59 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 13:32 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-22 19:46 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-23 12:15 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-23 17:43 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-23 18:01 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-23 20:43 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-23 11:51 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 12:22 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-23 12:41 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 17:45 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 18:09 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 19:04 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 19:42 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 20:38 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 12:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 14:05 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 14:15 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 16:55 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 20:35 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 22:06 ` Bill Huey
2007-02-27 10:09 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 17:13 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-27 2:18 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-27 10:13 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 16:01 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-27 16:21 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 16:58 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-02-27 17:06 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 19:20 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-26 19:47 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-25 23:14 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 14:17 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-22 14:36 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 14:23 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-22 21:24 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-23 0:30 ` Alan
2007-02-23 2:47 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-23 8:31 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-23 10:22 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 12:37 ` Alan
2007-02-23 23:49 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-24 1:08 ` Alan
2007-02-24 0:51 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-24 2:17 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-24 3:25 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-23 12:17 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-24 19:52 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-24 21:04 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-24 23:01 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 22:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-26 13:11 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 17:37 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 18:19 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-26 18:38 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 18:56 ` Chris Friesen
2007-02-26 19:20 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 17:28 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 17:57 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-26 18:32 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 19:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-26 19:30 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 20:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-27 8:09 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 19:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 10:28 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 11:52 ` Theodore Tso
2007-02-27 12:11 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 12:13 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 12:40 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-28 16:14 ` Pavel Machek
2007-03-01 8:18 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 9:26 ` Pavel Machek
2007-03-01 9:47 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 9:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 10:59 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 11:00 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 11:16 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 11:27 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 11:36 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 11:41 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 11:47 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 12:10 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 12:43 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 13:01 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 13:11 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 13:30 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 14:19 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 14:16 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 14:31 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 14:27 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 14:54 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 15:09 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 15:36 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 10:57 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-02 11:48 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 17:32 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-02 19:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-02 20:18 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-02 20:29 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-02 20:53 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-02 21:21 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-03-02 21:43 ` Nicholas Miell
2007-03-03 0:52 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 1:36 ` Nicholas Miell
2007-03-03 1:48 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2007-03-03 2:19 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 7:19 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-03 7:20 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-03 9:02 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-01 19:31 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-02 8:10 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 17:13 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-02 19:13 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 10:06 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-03 18:46 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 20:31 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-03 21:57 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 22:10 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-04 16:23 ` Kirk Kuchov
2007-03-04 17:46 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-03-05 5:23 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-03-04 21:17 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-04 22:49 ` Kirk Kuchov
2007-03-04 22:57 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-05 4:46 ` Magnus Naeslund(k)
2007-03-06 8:19 ` Pavel Machek
2007-03-07 12:02 ` Kirk Kuchov
2007-03-07 17:26 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-07 17:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-07 18:21 ` Kirk Kuchov
2007-03-07 18:24 ` Jens Axboe
2007-03-07 18:32 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 12:01 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 11:14 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 11:20 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 11:28 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 11:47 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 13:12 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 14:43 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 14:47 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 15:23 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 15:32 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 15:41 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-03-01 15:51 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 15:47 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 19:47 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-01 14:57 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 12:19 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 12:34 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 13:26 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 13:32 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 14:24 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 16:56 ` David Lang
2007-03-01 17:56 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 18:41 ` David Lang
2007-03-01 19:19 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-01 10:11 ` Pavel Machek
2007-03-01 10:19 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 11:18 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 10:27 ` Pavel Machek
2007-03-02 10:37 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 10:56 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-02 11:08 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-02 17:28 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-03 10:27 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 19:24 ` Johann Borck
2007-03-01 19:37 ` David Lang
2007-03-01 20:34 ` Johann Borck
2007-02-27 12:34 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 13:14 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 13:32 ` Avi Kivity
2007-02-28 3:03 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-28 8:02 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-28 17:01 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-03-05 2:16 ` Discussing LKML community [OT from the Re: [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3] Oleg Verych
2007-02-28 16:38 ` [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Phillip Susi
2007-02-22 19:38 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 9:45 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 16:17 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 16:42 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2007-02-28 17:26 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 18:22 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 18:42 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-28 18:50 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 19:03 ` Chris Friesen
2007-02-28 19:42 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-03-01 8:38 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 9:28 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-28 23:12 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 1:33 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-03-01 9:15 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-01 21:27 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-28 20:21 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 21:09 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 21:23 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 21:46 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-28 22:22 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 22:47 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-22 21:23 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-22 21:32 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2007-02-22 21:44 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-22 1:04 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 7:00 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-22 9:29 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 10:01 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-22 11:20 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 12:52 ` A quick fio test (was Re: [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3) Jens Axboe
2007-02-23 13:55 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-23 14:58 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 15:15 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-23 16:25 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-23 17:13 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-23 18:35 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-26 13:57 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-26 14:13 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-26 14:18 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 14:45 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 4:33 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-27 9:42 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 11:12 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 11:29 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 12:19 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 18:45 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 19:08 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 19:25 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 12:39 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-28 8:31 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-28 8:38 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-28 9:07 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-27 13:54 ` Avi Kivity
2007-02-27 15:25 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 16:15 ` Avi Kivity
2007-02-27 16:16 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 16:26 ` Avi Kivity
2007-02-27 18:49 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-26 21:40 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-23 16:59 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-23 22:31 ` Joel Becker
2007-02-24 12:18 ` Jens Axboe
2007-02-24 7:41 ` [patchset] Syslets/threadlets, generic AIO support, v4 Ingo Molnar
2007-02-24 18:34 ` [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 17:23 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 17:44 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 17:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 18:21 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 18:22 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 18:37 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 18:34 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 20:01 ` Frederik Deweerdt
2007-02-25 19:21 ` Ingo Molnar
[not found] ` <20070225194645.GB1353@2ka.mipt.ru>
[not found] ` <20070225195308.GC15681@elte.hu>
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.64.0702251232350.6011@alien.or.mcafeemobile.com>
2007-02-25 21:34 ` threadlets as 'naive pool of threads', epoll, some measurements Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 10:45 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 11:48 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 12:25 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 12:50 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 14:32 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 20:23 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 8:16 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 8:27 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 10:37 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 12:15 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 12:22 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 21:22 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-26 8:16 ` [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 9:25 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 9:55 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 10:31 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 10:43 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 20:02 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-26 10:33 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 10:35 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 10:47 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-26 12:51 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-26 16:46 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 6:24 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-27 10:41 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-27 10:49 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 18:25 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 18:24 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-25 14:33 ` Threadlet/syslet v4 bug report Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-25 15:24 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-02-22 12:27 [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 linux
2007-02-22 13:40 ` David Miller
2007-02-22 23:52 ` linux
2007-02-25 19:10 Al Boldi
2007-02-25 19:11 Al Boldi
2007-02-27 14:15 Al Boldi
2007-02-27 19:22 ` Theodore Tso
2007-03-01 10:21 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-27 14:15 Al Boldi
[not found] <efa6f5910703021120ia0b8d18ne0c806eb2e73da4c@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <20070303103427.GC22557@2ka.mipt.ru>
2007-03-03 10:58 ` Ihar `Philips` Filipau
2007-03-03 11:03 ` Evgeniy Polyakov
2007-03-03 11:51 ` Ihar `Philips` Filipau
2007-03-03 21:12 ` Ray Lee
2007-03-03 22:14 ` Ihar `Philips` Filipau
2007-03-03 23:54 ` Ray Lee
2007-03-04 9:33 ` Michael K. Edwards
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