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From: "Daniel P. Berrangé" <berrange@redhat.com>
To: Peter Maydell <peter.maydell@linaro.org>
Cc: Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	QEMU Developers <qemu-devel@nongnu.org>
Subject: Re: [PULL 31/31] qemu-option: warn for short-form boolean options
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 13:53:44 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YCvOaNji5s28XGsF@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAFEAcA9G7CQDPb1QNaajwG5wSdND-E5nkTox1yEocdsBDsfc3g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 01:36:46PM +0000, Peter Maydell wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 at 13:30, Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com> wrote:
> > On 16/02/21 12:58, Peter Maydell wrote:
> > > On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 at 11:23, Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com> wrote:
> > >> I agree, and that's why I have no plans to move -chardev off QemuOpts;
> > >> warning is a different step than excising and sometimes years pass from
> > >> one to the other.  However, that doesn't prevent introducing a warning
> > >> so that users slowly move away from the problematic functionality.
> > >
> > > If we want to continue to support the functionality then complaining
> > > about it doesn't serve much purpose IMHO.
> >
> > It depends.  I don't want to support it forever for all options;
> > -machine, -accel and -object are those for which I do intend to remove
> > support for short-form options after the two release deprecation period.
> >
> > My first submission of this patch even special cased "-chardev" to hide
> > the warning, but this was dropped in response to reviews.
> > (https://patchew.org/QEMU/20201103151452.416784-1-pbonzini@redhat.com/20201103151452.416784-5-pbonzini@redhat.com/).
> >   I can add that back if you prefer, since it's very simple.
> 
> I agree with Daniel that it would be better to be consistent about
> whether we like these short options or not, but disagree that
> the answer is to deprecate everywhere :-)
> 
> Broadly, I think that being able to say 'foo' when foo is a
> boolean option being set to true is obvious and nice-to-use
> syntax, and I don't really want it to go away. 'nofoo' for
> 'foo=false' is much less obvious and I'm happy if we only
> support it as a special-case for 'nowait'.

There's an inherant tension in our goals here.

It is widely thought that QEMU configuration is complex and painful to
understand. From my POV a big part of that believe comes from the fact
that we have so many inconsistencies in our parsing code, and many ways
of doing the same thing.

Every time we have special cases like  "foo" as a short hand for "foo=on"
or "nofoo" as a short hand for "foo=off",  we increase the complexity of
QEMU and that impacts how our users view QEMU. 

IMHO we'd be better off eliminating the boolean short forms entirely
in all QEMU options, so that we get consistency and a clearer right way
of doing things. The short bool format was created with good intentions,
but on balance a bare "foo" isn't a big enough win over "foo=on" to
justify its existance long term.

I do agree though, that we should not be deprecating something if our
documentation is still showing people the deprecated syntax, as that
makes us look even worse.

Regards,
Daniel
-- 
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-02-16 13:55 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 53+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-01-23 14:30 [PULL 00/31] Misc patches for 2020-01-21 Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:30 ` [PULL 01/31] runstate: cleanup reboot and panic actions Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:30 ` [PULL 02/31] configure: MinGW respect --bindir argument Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 03/31] x86/cpu: Use max host physical address if -cpu max option is applied Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 04/31] build-system: clean up TCG/TCI configury Paolo Bonzini
2021-02-06 18:01   ` Philippe Mathieu-Daudé
2021-02-06 19:08     ` Philippe Mathieu-Daudé
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 05/31] util/cacheflush: Fix error generated by clang Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 06/31] softmmu/physmem: Silence GCC 10 maybe-uninitialized error Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 07/31] ide: atapi: check logical block address and read size (CVE-2020-29443) Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 08/31] build-sys: remove unused LIBS Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 09/31] build-sys: set global arguments for cflags/ldflags Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 10/31] build-sys: add libvhost-user missing dependencies Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 11/31] slirp: update to git master Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 12/31] meson: Declare have_virtfs_proxy_helper in main meson.build Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 13/31] nsis: adjust for new MinGW paths Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 14/31] meson: convert wixl detection to Meson Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 15/31] meson: Summarize information related to directories first Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 16/31] meson: Display host binaries information altogether Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 17/31] meson: Summarize overall features altogether Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 18/31] meson: Summarize compilation-related information altogether Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 19/31] meson: Display accelerators and selected targets altogether Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 20/31] meson: Display block layer information altogether Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 21/31] meson: Display crypto-related " Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 22/31] meson: Add a section header for library dependencies Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 23/31] meson.build: Declare global edk2_targets / install_edk2_blobs variables Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 24/31] meson.build: Detect bzip2 program Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 25/31] acceptance: switch to QMP change-vnc-password command Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 26/31] hmp: remove "change vnc TARGET" command Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 27/31] qmp: remove deprecated "change" command Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 28/31] vnc: support "-vnc help" Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 29/31] qemu-option: clean up id vs. list->merge_lists Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-25  7:42   ` Markus Armbruster
2021-01-25  7:58     ` Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 30/31] qemu-option: move help handling to get_opt_name_value Paolo Bonzini
2021-01-23 14:31 ` [PULL 31/31] qemu-option: warn for short-form boolean options Paolo Bonzini
2021-02-15 19:56   ` Peter Maydell
2021-02-15 23:14     ` Paolo Bonzini
2021-02-16  9:58       ` Peter Maydell
2021-02-16 10:43         ` Paolo Bonzini
2021-02-16 11:04           ` Peter Maydell
2021-02-16 11:23             ` Paolo Bonzini
2021-02-16 11:58               ` Peter Maydell
2021-02-16 13:30                 ` Paolo Bonzini
2021-02-16 13:36                   ` Peter Maydell
2021-02-16 13:43                     ` Paolo Bonzini
2021-02-16 14:11                       ` Peter Maydell
2021-02-16 14:45                         ` Paolo Bonzini
2021-02-16 14:51                           ` Peter Maydell
2021-02-16 14:58                             ` Paolo Bonzini
2021-02-16 13:53                     ` Daniel P. Berrangé [this message]
2021-01-23 14:57 ` [PULL 00/31] Misc patches for 2020-01-21 no-reply
2021-01-23 19:52 ` Peter Maydell

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