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From: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>
To: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
Cc: Jane Chu <jane.chu@oracle.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	"Darrick J. Wong" <djwong@kernel.org>,
	"david@fromorbit.com" <david@fromorbit.com>,
	"vishal.l.verma@intel.com" <vishal.l.verma@intel.com>,
	"dave.jiang@intel.com" <dave.jiang@intel.com>,
	"agk@redhat.com" <agk@redhat.com>,
	"snitzer@redhat.com" <snitzer@redhat.com>,
	"dm-devel@redhat.com" <dm-devel@redhat.com>,
	"ira.weiny@intel.com" <ira.weiny@intel.com>,
	"willy@infradead.org" <willy@infradead.org>,
	"vgoyal@redhat.com" <vgoyal@redhat.com>,
	"linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"nvdimm@lists.linux.dev" <nvdimm@lists.linux.dev>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org" <linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [PATCH 0/6] dax poison recovery with RWF_RECOVERY_DATA flag
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 01:36:47 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YYObn+0juAFvH7Fk@infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAPcyv4jLn4_SYxLtp_cUT=mm6Y3An22BA+sqex1S-CBnAm6qGA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 03, 2021 at 11:21:39PM -0700, Dan Williams wrote:
> The concern I have with dax_clear_poison() is that it precludes atomic
> error clearing.

atomic as in clear poison and write the actual data?  Yes, that would
be useful, but it is not how the Intel pmem support actually works, right?

> Also, as Boris and I discussed, poisoned pages should
> be marked NP (not present) rather than UC (uncacheable) [1].

This would not really have an affect on the series, right?  But yes,
that seems like the right thing to do.

> With
> those 2 properties combined I think that wants a custom pmem fault
> handler that knows how to carefully write to pmem pages with poison
> present, rather than an additional explicit dax-operation. That also
> meets Christoph's requirement of "works with the intended direct
> memory map use case".

So we have 3 kinds of accesses to DAX memory:

 (1) user space mmap direct access. 
 (2) iov_iter based access (could be from kernel or userspace)
 (3) open coded kernel access using ->direct_access

One thing I noticed:  (2) could also work with kernel memory or pages,
but that doesn't use MC safe access.  Which seems like a major independent
of this discussion.

I suspect all kernel access could work fine with a copy_mc_to_kernel
helper as long as everyone actually uses it, which will cover the
missing required bits of (2) and (3) together with something like the
->clear_poison series from Jane. We just need to think hard what we
want to do for userspace mmap access.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>
To: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
Cc: Jane Chu <jane.chu@oracle.com>,
	"nvdimm@lists.linux.dev" <nvdimm@lists.linux.dev>,
	"dave.jiang@intel.com" <dave.jiang@intel.com>,
	"snitzer@redhat.com" <snitzer@redhat.com>,
	"vishal.l.verma@intel.com" <vishal.l.verma@intel.com>,
	"david@fromorbit.com" <david@fromorbit.com>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"willy@infradead.org" <willy@infradead.org>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	"dm-devel@redhat.com" <dm-devel@redhat.com>,
	"vgoyal@redhat.com" <vgoyal@redhat.com>,
	"Darrick J. Wong" <djwong@kernel.org>,
	"linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"ira.weiny@intel.com" <ira.weiny@intel.com>,
	"linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org" <linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org>,
	"agk@redhat.com" <agk@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [PATCH 0/6] dax poison recovery with RWF_RECOVERY_DATA flag
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 01:36:47 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YYObn+0juAFvH7Fk@infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAPcyv4jLn4_SYxLtp_cUT=mm6Y3An22BA+sqex1S-CBnAm6qGA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 03, 2021 at 11:21:39PM -0700, Dan Williams wrote:
> The concern I have with dax_clear_poison() is that it precludes atomic
> error clearing.

atomic as in clear poison and write the actual data?  Yes, that would
be useful, but it is not how the Intel pmem support actually works, right?

> Also, as Boris and I discussed, poisoned pages should
> be marked NP (not present) rather than UC (uncacheable) [1].

This would not really have an affect on the series, right?  But yes,
that seems like the right thing to do.

> With
> those 2 properties combined I think that wants a custom pmem fault
> handler that knows how to carefully write to pmem pages with poison
> present, rather than an additional explicit dax-operation. That also
> meets Christoph's requirement of "works with the intended direct
> memory map use case".

So we have 3 kinds of accesses to DAX memory:

 (1) user space mmap direct access. 
 (2) iov_iter based access (could be from kernel or userspace)
 (3) open coded kernel access using ->direct_access

One thing I noticed:  (2) could also work with kernel memory or pages,
but that doesn't use MC safe access.  Which seems like a major independent
of this discussion.

I suspect all kernel access could work fine with a copy_mc_to_kernel
helper as long as everyone actually uses it, which will cover the
missing required bits of (2) and (3) together with something like the
->clear_poison series from Jane. We just need to think hard what we
want to do for userspace mmap access.

--
dm-devel mailing list
dm-devel@redhat.com
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/dm-devel


  reply	other threads:[~2021-11-04  8:37 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 129+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-10-21  0:10 [PATCH 0/6] dax poison recovery with RWF_RECOVERY_DATA flag Jane Chu
2021-10-21  0:10 ` [dm-devel] " Jane Chu
2021-10-21  0:10 ` [PATCH 1/6] dax: introduce RWF_RECOVERY_DATA flag to preadv2() and pwritev2() Jane Chu
2021-10-21  0:10   ` [dm-devel] " Jane Chu
2021-10-21  0:10 ` [PATCH 2/6] dax: prepare dax_direct_access() API with DAXDEV_F_RECOVERY flag Jane Chu
2021-10-21  0:10   ` [dm-devel] " Jane Chu
2021-10-21 11:20   ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-21 11:20     ` [dm-devel] " Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-21 18:19     ` Jane Chu
2021-10-21 18:19       ` [dm-devel] " Jane Chu
2021-10-21  0:10 ` [PATCH 3/6] pmem: pmem_dax_direct_access() to honor the " Jane Chu
2021-10-21  0:10   ` [dm-devel] " Jane Chu
2021-10-21 11:23   ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-21 11:23     ` [dm-devel] " Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-21 18:24     ` Jane Chu
2021-10-21 18:24       ` [dm-devel] " Jane Chu
2021-10-21  0:10 ` [PATCH 4/6] dm,dax,pmem: prepare dax_copy_to/from_iter() APIs with DAXDEV_F_RECOVERY Jane Chu
2021-10-21  0:10   ` [dm-devel] [PATCH 4/6] dm, dax, pmem: " Jane Chu
2021-10-21 11:27   ` [PATCH 4/6] dm,dax,pmem: " Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-21 11:27     ` [dm-devel] [PATCH 4/6] dm, dax, pmem: " Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-22  0:49     ` [PATCH 4/6] dm,dax,pmem: " Jane Chu
2021-10-22  0:49       ` [dm-devel] [PATCH 4/6] dm, dax, pmem: " Jane Chu
2021-10-22  1:41       ` correction: Re: [PATCH 4/6] dm,dax,pmem: " Jane Chu
2021-10-22  1:41         ` [dm-devel] correction: Re: [PATCH 4/6] dm, dax, pmem: " Jane Chu
2021-10-22  5:33       ` [PATCH 4/6] dm,dax,pmem: " Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-22  5:33         ` [dm-devel] [PATCH 4/6] dm, dax, pmem: " Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-22 20:30         ` [PATCH 4/6] dm,dax,pmem: " Jane Chu
2021-10-22 20:30           ` [dm-devel] [PATCH 4/6] dm, dax, pmem: " Jane Chu
2021-10-21  0:10 ` [PATCH 5/6] dax,pmem: Add data recovery feature to pmem_copy_to/from_iter() Jane Chu
2021-10-21  0:10   ` [dm-devel] [PATCH 5/6] dax, pmem: " Jane Chu
2021-10-21 11:28   ` [PATCH 5/6] dax,pmem: " Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-21 11:28     ` [dm-devel] [PATCH 5/6] dax, pmem: " Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-22  0:58     ` [PATCH 5/6] dax,pmem: " Jane Chu
2021-10-22  0:58       ` [dm-devel] [PATCH 5/6] dax, pmem: " Jane Chu
2021-10-22  8:03   ` kernel test robot
2021-10-22  8:03     ` kernel test robot
2021-10-26 10:21   ` [PATCH 5/6] dax,pmem: " kernel test robot
2021-10-26 10:21     ` [PATCH 5/6] dax, pmem: " kernel test robot
2021-10-26 10:21     ` [dm-devel] " kernel test robot
2021-10-21  0:10 ` [PATCH 6/6] dm: Ensure dm honors DAXDEV_F_RECOVERY flag on dax only Jane Chu
2021-10-21  0:10   ` [dm-devel] " Jane Chu
2021-10-21 11:31 ` [dm-devel] [PATCH 0/6] dax poison recovery with RWF_RECOVERY_DATA flag Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-21 11:31   ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-22  1:37   ` Jane Chu
2021-10-22  1:37     ` Jane Chu
2021-10-22  1:58     ` Darrick J. Wong
2021-10-22  1:58       ` Darrick J. Wong
2021-10-22  5:38       ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-22  5:38         ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-22  5:36     ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-22  5:36       ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-22 20:52       ` Jane Chu
2021-10-22 20:52         ` Jane Chu
2021-10-27  6:49         ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-27  6:49           ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-28  0:24           ` Darrick J. Wong
2021-10-28  0:24             ` Darrick J. Wong
2021-10-28 22:59             ` Dave Chinner
2021-10-28 22:59               ` Dave Chinner
2021-10-29 11:46               ` Pavel Begunkov
2021-10-29 11:46                 ` Pavel Begunkov
2021-10-29 16:57                 ` Darrick J. Wong
2021-10-29 16:57                   ` Darrick J. Wong
2021-10-29 19:23                   ` Pavel Begunkov
2021-10-29 19:23                     ` Pavel Begunkov
2021-10-29 20:08                     ` Darrick J. Wong
2021-10-29 20:08                       ` Darrick J. Wong
2021-10-31 13:27                       ` Pavel Begunkov
2021-10-31 13:27                         ` Pavel Begunkov
2021-10-29 18:53                 ` Jane Chu
2021-10-29 18:53                   ` Jane Chu
2021-10-29 22:32                 ` Dave Chinner
2021-10-29 22:32                   ` Dave Chinner
2021-10-31 13:19                   ` Pavel Begunkov
2021-10-31 13:19                     ` Pavel Begunkov
2021-11-01  2:31                     ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-11-01  2:31                       ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-11-02  6:18             ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-02  6:18               ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-02 19:57               ` Dan Williams
2021-11-02 19:57                 ` Dan Williams
2021-11-03 16:58                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-03 16:58                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-03 20:33                   ` Dan Williams
2021-11-03 20:33                     ` Dan Williams
2021-11-04  8:30                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-04  8:30                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-04 12:29                       ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-11-04 12:29                         ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-11-04 16:24                       ` Dan Williams
2021-11-04 16:24                         ` Dan Williams
2021-11-04 17:43                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-04 17:43                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-04 17:50                           ` Dan Williams
2021-11-04 17:50                             ` Dan Williams
2021-11-04 18:05                           ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-11-04 18:05                             ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-11-04 18:33                         ` Jane Chu
2021-11-04 18:33                           ` Jane Chu
2021-11-04 19:00                           ` Dan Williams
2021-11-04 19:00                             ` Dan Williams
2021-11-04 20:27                             ` Jane Chu
2021-11-04 20:27                               ` Jane Chu
2021-11-05  0:46                               ` Dan Williams
2021-11-05  0:46                                 ` Dan Williams
2021-11-05  1:35                                 ` Dan Williams
2021-11-05  1:35                                   ` Dan Williams
2021-11-05  5:56                             ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-05  5:56                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-03 18:09               ` Jane Chu
2021-11-03 18:09                 ` Jane Chu
2021-11-04  6:21                 ` Dan Williams
2021-11-04  6:21                   ` Dan Williams
2021-11-04  8:36                   ` Christoph Hellwig [this message]
2021-11-04  8:36                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-04 16:08                     ` Dan Williams
2021-11-04 16:08                       ` Dan Williams
2021-11-04 17:46                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-04 17:46                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-04  8:21                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-04  8:21                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-02 16:12             ` Dan Williams
2021-11-02 16:12               ` Dan Williams
2021-11-02 16:03           ` Dan Williams
2021-11-02 16:03             ` Dan Williams
2021-11-03 16:53             ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-03 16:53               ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-11-06  7:41             ` Lukas Straub
2021-11-06  7:41               ` Lukas Straub

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