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From: David Lang <david@lang.hm>
To: Daniel Phillips <daniel@phunq.net>
Cc: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>,
	tux3@tux3.org,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	OGAWA Hirofumi <hirofumi@mail.parknet.co.jp>
Subject: Re: [FYI] tux3: Core changes
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 15:27:12 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1507311524210.11360@nftneq.ynat.uz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <be97231f-c972-4ec8-b043-f3ca4b1dc42a@phunq.net>

On Fri, 31 Jul 2015, Daniel Phillips wrote:

> On Friday, July 31, 2015 11:29:51 AM PDT, David Lang wrote:
>> We, the Linux Community have less tolerance for losing people's data and 
>> preventing them from operating than we used to when it was all tinkerer's 
>> personal data and secondary systems.
>> 
>> So rather than pushing optimizations out to everyone and seeing what 
>> breaks, we now do more testing and checking for failures before pushing 
>> things out.
>
> By the way, I am curious about whose data you think will get lost
> as a result of pushing out Tux3 with a possible theoretical bug
> in a wildly improbable scenario that has not actually been
> described with sufficient specificity to falsify, let alone
> demonstrated.

you weren't asking about any particular feature of Tux, you were asking if we 
were still willing to push out stuff that breaks for users and fix it later.

Especially for filesystems that can loose the data of whoever is using it, the 
answer seems to be a clear no.

there may be bugs in what's pushed out that we don't know about. But we don't 
push out potential data corruption bugs that we do know about (or think we do)

so if you think this should be pushed out with this known corner case that's not 
handled properly, you have to convince people that it's _so_ improbable that 
they shouldn't care about it.

David Lang

  reply	other threads:[~2015-07-31 22:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 211+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-04-28 23:13 Tux3 Report: How fast can we fsync? Daniel Phillips
2015-04-28 23:13 ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-29  2:21 ` Mike Galbraith
2015-04-29  6:01   ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-29  6:01     ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-29  6:20     ` Richard Weinberger
2015-04-29  6:56       ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-29  6:56         ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-29  6:33     ` Mike Galbraith
2015-04-29  7:23       ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-29  7:23         ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-29 16:42         ` Mike Galbraith
2015-04-29 19:05           ` xfs: does mkfs.xfs require fancy switches to get decent performance? (was Tux3 Report: How fast can we fsync?) Mike Galbraith
2015-04-29 19:20             ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
2015-04-29 21:12             ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-30  4:40               ` Mike Galbraith
2015-04-30  0:20             ` Dave Chinner
2015-04-30  3:35               ` Mike Galbraith
2015-04-30  9:00               ` Martin Steigerwald
2015-04-30  9:00                 ` Martin Steigerwald
2015-04-30 14:57                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-04-30 15:59                   ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-30 17:59                   ` Martin Steigerwald
2015-04-30 11:14               ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-30 12:07                 ` Mike Galbraith
2015-04-30 12:58                   ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-30 12:58                     ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-30 13:48                     ` Mike Galbraith
2015-04-30 14:07                       ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-30 14:28                         ` Howard Chu
2015-04-30 14:28                           ` Howard Chu
2015-04-30 15:14                           ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-30 16:00                             ` Howard Chu
2015-04-30 18:22                             ` Christian Stroetmann
2015-05-11 22:12                             ` Pavel Machek
2015-05-11 23:17                               ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-05-12  2:34                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-12  5:38                                   ` Dave Chinner
2015-05-12  6:18                                     ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-12  6:18                                       ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-12 18:39                                       ` David Lang
2015-05-12 20:54                                         ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-12 21:30                                           ` David Lang
2015-05-12 22:27                                             ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-12 22:35                                               ` David Lang
2015-05-12 23:55                                                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-05-13  1:26                                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-13 19:09                                                   ` Martin Steigerwald
2015-05-13 19:37                                                     ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-13 20:02                                                       ` Jeremy Allison
2015-05-13 20:02                                                         ` Jeremy Allison
2015-05-13 20:24                                                         ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-13 20:25                                                       ` Martin Steigerwald
2015-05-13 20:38                                                         ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-13 21:10                                                           ` Martin Steigerwald
2015-05-13  0:31                                             ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-12 21:30                                           ` Christian Stroetmann
2015-05-13  7:20                                           ` Pavel Machek
2015-05-13 13:47                                             ` Elifarley Callado Coelho Cruz
2015-05-12  9:03                                   ` Pavel Machek
2015-05-12  9:03                                     ` Pavel Machek
2015-05-12 11:22                                     ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-12 13:26                                       ` Howard Chu
2015-05-11 23:53                               ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-11 23:53                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-12  0:12                                 ` David Lang
2015-05-12  4:36                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-12 17:30                                     ` Christian Stroetmann
2015-05-13  7:25                                 ` Pavel Machek
2015-05-13 11:31                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-13 12:41                                     ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-13 13:08                                     ` Mike Galbraith
2015-05-13 13:15                                       ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-30 14:33                         ` Mike Galbraith
2015-04-30 15:24                           ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-30 15:24                             ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-29 20:40           ` Tux3 Report: How fast can we fsync? Daniel Phillips
2015-04-29 20:40             ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-29 22:06             ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2015-04-29 22:06               ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2015-04-30  3:57               ` Mike Galbraith
2015-04-30  3:50             ` Mike Galbraith
2015-04-30 10:59               ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-30  1:46 ` Dave Chinner
2015-04-30 10:28   ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-30 10:28     ` Daniel Phillips
     [not found]     ` <55420EAC.5040900@suse.com>
2015-04-30 11:36       ` Daniel Phillips
2015-04-30 13:19         ` Filipe David Manana
2015-04-30 13:25           ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-01 15:38     ` Dave Chinner
2015-05-01 23:20       ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-02  1:07         ` David Lang
2015-05-02 10:26           ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-02 16:00             ` Christian Stroetmann
2015-05-02 16:30               ` Richard Weinberger
2015-05-02 17:00                 ` Christian Stroetmann
2015-05-12 17:41 ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-12 17:46 ` Tux3 Report: How fast can we fail? Daniel Phillips
2015-05-13 22:07   ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-26 10:03   ` Pavel Machek
2015-05-26 10:03     ` Pavel Machek
2015-05-27  6:41     ` Mosis Tembo
2015-05-27 18:28       ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-27 18:28         ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-27 21:39         ` Pavel Machek
2015-05-27 22:46           ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-28 12:55             ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
2015-05-27  7:37     ` Mosis Tembo
2015-05-27 14:04       ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
2015-05-27 15:21         ` Mosis Tembo
2015-05-27 15:37           ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
2015-05-14  7:37 ` [WIP] tux3: Optimized fsync Daniel Phillips
2015-05-14  8:26 ` [FYI] tux3: Core changes Daniel Phillips
2015-05-14 12:59   ` Rik van Riel
2015-05-15  0:06     ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-15  0:06       ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-15  3:06       ` Rik van Riel
2015-05-15  8:09         ` Mel Gorman
2015-05-15  9:54           ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-15  9:54             ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-15 11:00             ` Mel Gorman
2015-05-16 22:38               ` David Lang
2015-05-18 12:57                 ` Mel Gorman
2015-05-18 12:57                   ` Mel Gorman
2015-05-15  9:38         ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-15  9:38           ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-27  7:41           ` Pavel Machek
2015-05-27 18:09             ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-27 18:09               ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-27 21:37               ` Pavel Machek
2015-05-27 22:33                 ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-15  8:05       ` Mel Gorman
2015-05-17 13:26     ` Boaz Harrosh
2015-05-18  2:20       ` Rik van Riel
2015-05-18  7:58         ` Boaz Harrosh
2015-05-19  4:46         ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-21 19:43     ` [WIP][PATCH] tux3: preliminatry nospace handling Daniel Phillips
2015-05-19 14:00   ` [FYI] tux3: Core changes Jan Kara
2015-05-19 19:18     ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-19 20:33       ` David Lang
2015-05-19 20:33         ` David Lang
2015-05-20 14:44         ` Jan Kara
2015-05-20 16:22           ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-20 18:01             ` David Lang
2015-05-20 18:01               ` David Lang
2015-05-20 19:53             ` Rik van Riel
2015-05-20 19:53               ` Rik van Riel
2015-05-20 22:51               ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-20 22:51                 ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-21  3:24                 ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-21  3:51                   ` David Lang
2015-05-21 19:53                     ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-21 19:53                       ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-26  4:25                       ` Rik van Riel
2015-05-26  4:25                         ` Rik van Riel
2015-05-26  4:30                         ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-26  4:30                           ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-26  6:04                           ` David Lang
2015-05-26  6:04                             ` David Lang
2015-05-26  6:11                             ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-26  6:13                               ` David Lang
2015-05-26  6:13                                 ` David Lang
2015-05-26  8:09                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-26  8:09                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-26 10:13                                   ` Pavel Machek
2015-05-26 10:13                                     ` Pavel Machek
2015-05-26  7:09                               ` Jan Kara
2015-05-26  8:08                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-26  8:08                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-26  9:00                                   ` Jan Kara
2015-05-26  9:00                                     ` Jan Kara
2015-05-26 20:22                                     ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-26 21:36                                       ` Rik van Riel
2015-05-26 21:49                                         ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-26 21:49                                           ` Daniel Phillips
2015-05-27  8:41                                       ` Jan Kara
2015-06-21 15:36                                         ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2015-06-21 15:36                                           ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2015-06-23 16:12                                           ` Jan Kara
2015-07-05 12:54                                             ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2015-07-05 12:54                                               ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2015-07-09 16:05                                               ` Jan Kara
2015-07-09 16:05                                                 ` Jan Kara
2015-07-31  4:44                                                 ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2015-07-31 15:37                                                   ` Raymond Jennings
2015-07-31 17:27                                                     ` Daniel Phillips
2015-07-31 17:27                                                       ` Daniel Phillips
2015-07-31 18:29                                                       ` David Lang
2015-07-31 18:29                                                         ` David Lang
2015-07-31 18:43                                                         ` Daniel Phillips
2015-07-31 18:43                                                           ` Daniel Phillips
2015-07-31 22:12                                                         ` Daniel Phillips
2015-07-31 22:12                                                           ` Daniel Phillips
2015-07-31 22:27                                                           ` David Lang [this message]
2015-08-01  0:00                                                             ` Daniel Phillips
2015-08-01  0:00                                                               ` Daniel Phillips
2015-08-01  0:16                                                               ` Daniel Phillips
2015-08-01  0:16                                                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2015-08-03 13:07                                                                 ` Jan Kara
2015-08-01 10:55                                                             ` Elifarley Callado Coelho Cruz
2015-08-18 16:39                                                       ` Rik van Riel
2015-08-03 13:42                                                   ` Jan Kara
2015-08-03 13:42                                                     ` Jan Kara
2015-08-09 13:42                                                     ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2015-08-10 12:45                                                       ` Jan Kara
2015-08-10 12:45                                                         ` Jan Kara
2015-08-16 19:42                                                         ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2015-05-26 10:22                                   ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2015-05-26 12:33                                     ` Jan Kara
2015-05-26 12:33                                       ` Jan Kara
2015-05-26 19:18                                     ` Daniel Phillips

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