[Bug 217696] Looking for a way to enable power saving mode for Ryzen APUs, along with limiting the upper temperature and total power consumption

[Bug 217696] Looking for a way to enable power saving mode for Ryzen APUs, along with limiting the upper temperature and total power consumption

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=217696

Mario Limonciello (AMD) (mario.limonciello@amd.com) changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |shyam-sundar.s-k@amd.com
          Component|PCI                         |Platform_x86
           Assignee|drivers_pci@kernel-bugs.osd |drivers_platform_x86@kernel
                   |l.org                       |-bugs.osdl.org

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--- Comment #10 from Artem S. Tashkinov (aros@gmx.com) ---
(In reply to Mario Limonciello (AMD) from comment #9)
> > [  205.216161] amd-pmf AMDI0102:00: registered PMF device successfully
> > [45870.908318] amd-pmf AMDI0102:00: supported functions:0xe0c3
> > notifications:0x10
> > [45870.908366] amd-pmf AMDI0102:00: system params mask:0x3 flags:0x1
> > cmd_code:0x0 heartbeat:60
> > [45870.908375] amd-pmf AMDI0102:00: Sending heartbeat to SBIOS
> > [45870.908461] amd-pmf AMDI0102:00: registered PMF device successfully
> > [45933.040354] amd-pmf AMDI0102:00: Sending heartbeat to SBIOS
> > [45994.483802] amd-pmf AMDI0102:00: Sending heartbeat to SBIOS
> 
> Your system is similar to the bug report
> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=217571

I've no problems with frequency scaling. Also it looks like the OP uses
amd-pstate and I use acpi-cpufreq since amd-pstate is not enabled by default.
Under the specific AMD driver idle power consumption without RyzenAdj remains
very equally high.

> 
> It supports PMF FN8.
> 
> That is these two patches may help:
> 
> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/pdx86/platform-drivers-x86.
> git/commit/?h=review-hans&id=25e3e5ba62e55b156ec0077211451241256ccba5
> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/pdx86/platform-drivers-x86.
> git/commit/?h=review-hans&id=747fb5141bb12f271b528a2ef0d25e50f85945bf

Is the second patch queued for 6.5? I wouldn't want to compile the kernel just
yet but I can check Fedora's 6.5-rc3.

> 
> They will enable SPS for EC notification.  This turns on ACPI platform
> profile support as well.
> See if that improves things when you select "power saver" in
> power-profile-daemon.
> 
> > Please check the attached screenshot, it says it all.
> 
> I'm sorry; but it doesn't.  PMF works as a coordination between many
> components not just the APU.  That's why I wanted to see the dynamic
> debugging output.

My laptop hits a 4.5GHz frequency wall under Windows 10, Windows 11 and Linux
despite power consumption or temperature which are far below this system limits
~51W/100C. I've now tried to open five support requests with HP but they don't
even want to confirm the bug. I hoped you would ask me to provide certain CPU
registers values to confirm it's a firmware limit. A HWiNFO64 developer refused
to confirm the bug citing the global CPU frequency limit confidentiality/NDA:

https://www.hwinfo.com/forum/threads/frequency-limit-global-for-ryzen-7-7840hs-zen-4-phoenix-cpu.9044/post-40967

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[Bug 217696] Looking for a way to enable power saving mode for Ryzen APUs, along with limiting the upper temperature and total power consumption

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--- Comment #11 from Artem S. Tashkinov (aros@gmx.com) ---
Could you explain the nature of the second patch? From its description I
understood nothing at all.

Does it fix (improve) very high idle power consumption? Why is it needed? I
don't think it'll help me break through the frequency wall my laptop's firmware
is imposing on me.

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--- Comment #12 from Mario Limonciello (AMD) (mario.limonciello@amd.com) ---
> I've no problems with frequency scaling. Also it looks like the OP uses
> amd-pstate and I use acpi-cpufreq since amd-pstate is not enabled by default.
> Under the specific AMD driver idle power consumption without RyzenAdj remains
> very equally high.

amd-pstate vs acpi-cpufreq is actually irrelevant for the issue at hand.  From
your debug log I believe the issue is that for your machine a component outside
of the Linux kernel is supposed to influence power targets.  It's either the EC
or something that runs in the APU's TEE environment.

More on this later in my response.

> Is the second patch queued for 6.5? I wouldn't want to compile the kernel
> just yet but I can check Fedora's 6.5-rc3.

No it's not in 6.5 right now.  Hans is OOO, but I expect will be queued for a
future 6.5-rc when he returns.

> Could you explain the nature of the second patch? From its description I
> understood nothing at all.

In Linux the static power slider (SPS) is exported from amd-pmf as an ACPI
platform profile.  Power-profiles daemon uses this to let you pick "Power
saver", "balanced" or "performance" modes.

Until that patch SPS is only exported if targets are adjustable directly via
PMF driver.  But your system advertises that power slider changes should notify
the SBIOS because your system doesn't adjust targets via the PMF driver.

> Does it fix (improve) very high idle power consumption? Why is it needed? I
> don't think it'll help me break through the frequency wall my laptop's
> firmware is imposing on me.

I don't have visibility into your EC code, but if it's by EC the patch will fix
it when you pick "power saver" or "performance" in power profiles daemon.

If the EC doesn't do it, it will probably require some code that we'll be
releasing later for some other PMF features.

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--- Comment #13 from Artem S. Tashkinov (aros@gmx.com) ---
Thanks a ton for you help and replies, Mario.

Applying patch to Fedora's kernel has proved to be an insurmountable task for
me - I've no idea how to build it: rpmbuild --rebuild fails with a ton of
errors.

Let's get back to this bug a bit later if you don't mind. I have no mental
strength to build a kernel for my laptop just yet. I've always done it for my
desktop PC but laptops are a whole different beast.

It looks like the provided patch must work with 6.4 which makes it easier for
me but again later.

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Mario Limonciello (AMD) (mario.limonciello@amd.com) changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |NEEDINFO

--- Comment #14 from Mario Limonciello (AMD) (mario.limonciello@amd.com) ---
No worry.  Look forward to your results later.

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--- Comment #15 from Artem S. Tashkinov (aros@gmx.com) ---
OK, I'm now running the system with the patched amd-pmf driver.

I've no idea what the power profile daemon is.

Is there a /sys interface to alter power profiles?

There are over 1000 files in /sys named '*power*', I'm lost and not a lot
called "profile".

There's

/sys/firmware/acpi/platform_profile which now contains "balanced".

/sys/firmware/acpi/platform_profile_choices contains:

low_power balanced performance

OK, let's try "performance". Still stuck at 4.5GHz.

There's also /sys/firmware/acpi/pm_profile which has "2" in it. No idea what
that is.

P.S.

What's worst of all I cannot make my touchpad work.

With Fedora's kernel I get this:

input: ELAN07A8:00 04F3:31EC Mouse as
/devices/platform/AMDI0010:00/i2c-0/i2c-ELAN07A8:00/0018:04F3:31EC.0001/input/input5
input: ELAN07A8:00 04F3:31EC Touchpad as
/devices/platform/AMDI0010:00/i2c-0/i2c-ELAN07A8:00/0018:04F3:31EC.0001/input/input7
hid-generic 0018:04F3:31EC.0001: input,hidraw0: I2C HID v1.00 Mouse
[ELAN07A8:00 04F3:31EC] on i2c-ELAN07A8:00
input: ELAN07A8:00 04F3:31EC Mouse as
/devices/platform/AMDI0010:00/i2c-0/i2c-ELAN07A8:00/0018:04F3:31EC.0001/input/input9
input: ELAN07A8:00 04F3:31EC Touchpad as
/devices/platform/AMDI0010:00/i2c-0/i2c-ELAN07A8:00/0018:04F3:31EC.0001/input/input11
hid-multitouch 0018:04F3:31EC.0001: input,hidraw0: I2C HID v1.00 Mouse
[ELAN07A8:00 04F3:31EC] on i2c-ELAN07A8:00

With my custom compiled kernel I get none of these messages. I'm missing some
kernel options obviously but I've no idea which.

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Hans de Goede (jwrdegoede@fedoraproject.org) changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |jwrdegoede@fedoraproject.or
                   |                            |g

--- Comment #16 from Hans de Goede (jwrdegoede@fedoraproject.org) ---
Artem, you can take Fedora's kernel config as a start for your local build
kernel, copy it over the .config file and then run "make oldconfig".

You can find Fedora's kernel config e.g. here:

/lib/modules/6.4.4-200.fc38.x86_64/config

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Armin Wolf (W_Armin@gmx.de) changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |W_Armin@gmx.de

--- Comment #17 from Armin Wolf (W_Armin@gmx.de) ---
You might also check if CONFIG_I2C_HID and CONFIG_I2C_HID_ACPI enabled.

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Artem S. Tashkinov (aros@gmx.com) changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEEDINFO                    |ASSIGNED

--- Comment #18 from Artem S. Tashkinov (aros@gmx.com) ---
The touchpad troubles have been solved - I needed to enable far from obvious
options:

CONFIG_PINCTRL_AMD=y
CONFIG_I2C_DESIGNWARE_PLATFORM=m
CONFIG_I2C_DESIGNWARE_AMDPSP=y

Thanks to the person who created this page:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/HP_Elitebook_845_G10

Sorry for the noise.

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--- Comment #19 from Mario Limonciello (AMD) (mario.limonciello@amd.com) ---
> /sys/firmware/acpi/platform_profile which now contains "balanced".
> /sys/firmware/acpi/platform_profile_choices contains:
> low_power balanced performance

OK good news and bad news.

* The good news: this means the patch "works" and you're now seeing the extra
values for power slider notifications.

* The bad news: It appears that HP's EC doesn't do "all" the power state change
notifications.  Some of it is handled by code that runs in the APU's TEE
environment.

> [45870.908318] amd-pmf AMDI0102:00: supported functions:0xe0c3
> notifications:0x10

There are some other bits not yet supported by amd-pmf in Linux.  Let's leave
this issue opened until that code is submitted.

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--- Comment #20 from Artem S. Tashkinov (aros@gmx.com) ---
I'm a little bit lost in all of that.

Originally I was looking for a way to control my APU TDP(TTP) and maximum
temperature threshold *without* using ryzenadj because CPU control registers
are locked in secure boot mode.

The second issue is my 7840HS never going above 4.5GHZ either in Linux or
Windows.

Trusted Execution Environment (TEE) or not I wonder if my firmware is simply
buggy and there's an artificial CPU frequency limit set by HP for no reasons
and whether I should continue pushing them to released fixed firmware or if
your fellow AMD engineers could politely ask HP to remove the restriction.

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--- Comment #21 from Artem S. Tashkinov (aros@gmx.com) ---
The patched driver outputs slightly different debug messages:

amd-pmf AMDI0102:00: registered PMF device successfully
amd-pmf AMDI0102:00: supported functions:0xe0c3 notifications:0x10
amd-pmf AMDI0102:00: system params mask:0x3 flags:0x1 cmd_code:0x0 heartbeat:60
amd-pmf AMDI0102:00: Failed to register SPS support, this is most likely an
SBIOS bug: -17
amd-pmf AMDI0102:00: SPS enabled and Platform Profiles registered
amd-pmf AMDI0102:00: registered PMF device successfully
amd-pmf AMDI0102:00: Sending heartbeat to SBIOS

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--- Comment #22 from Mario Limonciello (AMD) (mario.limonciello@amd.com) ---
> The patched driver outputs slightly different debug messages:

This looks correct to me now for what amd-pmf can support today.

> Originally I was looking for a way to control my APU TDP(TTP) and maximum
> temperature threshold *without* using ryzenadj because CPU control registers
> are locked in secure boot mode.

This isn't something AMD supports.  The APU coefficients are set by system
designers in their firmware as a result of the hardware design decisions.

That's why I'm fixating on getting the method of coefficient configuration
working.  Some OEMs do it entirely in their EC, some do it entirely in PMF,
some do a combination and some it with the involvement of code running in TEE.

We will need to wait until the other bits are supported by amd-pmf to revisit
this issue.

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Artem S. Tashkinov (aros@gmx.com) changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           Priority|P3                          |P5
             Status|ASSIGNED                    |RESOLVED
     Kernel Version|                            |GIT
         Resolution|---                         |WILL_NOT_FIX
           Severity|high                        |enhancement

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--- Comment #23 from Artem S. Tashkinov (aros@gmx.com) ---
Please disregard unless you have spare time and kindness in your heart.

------------------------------------------------------------

It has just dawned on me that I had one more request as part of this bug report
and that was getting my APU to the optimized power saving mode enabled by 

ryzenadj --power-saving

which is also impossible with Secure Boot mode on Linux.

I raised the issue of reprogramming CPU registers for Intel systems 7 years ago
on LKML because I was in the exact same situation and that is I needed direct
access to be able to contain my system temperatures, now 7 years later AMD
gives me the same grim and depressing response: "You want to use Linux with
secure boot? Enjoy much higher system temps, noisier fans and reduced fan
life".

Why does "open" Linux allow so much less freedom to tune my system than the
ostensibly closed OS? Under Windows with Secure Boot I have the full freedom to
use RyzenAdj, ThrottleStop, ZenTimings, RyzenTuner, AMD's own Ryzen Master
(which does exactly that BTW) and a ton of other low level utilities to tune
and monitor my system.

Please do not take this personally but sometimes I just get extremely
frustrated with using Linux (been using it for over 25 years now). I'm not
demanding to implement hypothetical Vulkan 2.0 spec, I'm not asking something
outlandish. I'm asking to expose a feature you've got full control over and
which probably takes 100 lines of code to implement. Is it also about "trade
secrets"? You can perfectly hide it behind scary looking module options, can't
you?

E.g. i_am_ok_with_destroying_my_system_and_setting_my_house_on_fire=1

Laptops users have no say in what their OEMs/vendors push on them. I cannot go
and ask HP to add these options to BIOS, it's just not possible. I will be
ignored completely.

Oddly enough smaller vendors have been adding memory tuning options to
barebones based on Ryzen APUs, e.g. Minisforum UM790 Pro 7940HS Mini PC. I
guess this is not going to happen ever with the likes of Dell, HP, ASUS,
Lenovo, Samsung, etc. Maybe with MSI.

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--- Comment #24 from Mario Limonciello (AMD) (mario.limonciello@amd.com) ---
I'm a Linux guy myself and I fully understand and appreciate your request.  As
much as I hate to play the "outside of my pay grade" card, this is the reality
of the ecosystem today.

I will raise the concern with some internal people, but please understand that
it's not up to me alone.

I would also like to drop a really interesting link for you.  Some vendors *do*
let you toy around with coefficients.  Here's an example:

https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/EmbeddedController/blob/lotus-zephyr/zephyr/program/lotus/azalea/src/cpu_power.c

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--- Comment #25 from Armin Wolf (W_Armin@gmx.de) ---
It would help if AMD could publish some sort of official documentation
regarding the interface used by the "Ryzen Master" utility, because then a
proper driver could be implemented. For example, the k10temp driver once was
able to monitor voltage/current sensors on ryzen processors. This feature
however was removed after it caused problems on some systems and the register
locations where experimental at best. Without some sort of documentation, the
risk of causing an accidental killer poke is too high.

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--- Comment #26 from Alex Deucher (alexdeucher@gmail.com) ---
(In reply to Armin Wolf from comment #25)
> It would help if AMD could publish some sort of official documentation
> regarding the interface used by the "Ryzen Master" utility, because then a
> proper driver could be implemented. For example, the k10temp driver once was
> able to monitor voltage/current sensors on ryzen processors. This feature
> however was removed after it caused problems on some systems and the
> register locations where experimental at best. Without some sort of
> documentation, the risk of causing an accidental killer poke is too high.

Unfortunately, it would probably take as much effort to prepare appropriate
documentation for public consumption as it would to actually implement support.
 Comes down to resources.

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--- Comment #27 from Artem S. Tashkinov (aros@gmx.com) ---
Dear Mario Limonciello and Alex Deucher,

I've discovered multiple other HP laptops affected by the issue of AMD Phoenix
APUs never reaching their advertised boost speeds. It's not about Linux AMD PMF
driver, it's under Windows:

HP OMEN by HP Gaming Laptop 16-xd0xxx, 7840HS - 4619MHz limit
https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/1868206.gb6

HP HP ZBook Power 15.6 inch G10 A Mobile Workstation PC, 7840HS - 4500MHz limit
https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/2027018.gb6

HP Victus by HP Gaming Laptop 16-s0xxx, 7840HS - 4619MHz limit
https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/1638542.gb6

HP EliteBook 845 14 inch G10 Notebook PC, 7840HS - 4500MHz limit
https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/1946323.gb6

HP EliteBook 845 14 inch G10 Notebook PC, 7940HS - 4500MHz limit
https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/1958365.gb6

I know you know people in AMD who work with your partners - would be great if
they contacted HP and ask them to remove the artificial limit.

Thank you very much!

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