Unsubscription Incident

Unsubscription Incident

[Lijun Pan]

Hi,

From Oct 11, I did not receive any emails from both linux-kernel and
netdev mailing list. Did anyone encounter the same issue? I subscribed
again and I can receive incoming emails now. However, I figured out
that anyone can unsubscribe your email without authentication. Maybe
it is just a one-time issue that someone accidentally unsubscribed my
email. But I would recommend that our admin can add one more
authentication step before unsubscription to make the process more
secure.

Thanks,
Lijun

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[Vladimir Oltean]

On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 18:53, Lijun Pan <lijunp213@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> From Oct 11, I did not receive any emails from both linux-kernel and
> netdev mailing list. Did anyone encounter the same issue? I subscribed
> again and I can receive incoming emails now. However, I figured out
> that anyone can unsubscribe your email without authentication. Maybe
> it is just a one-time issue that someone accidentally unsubscribed my
> email. But I would recommend that our admin can add one more
> authentication step before unsubscription to make the process more
> secure.
>
> Thanks,
> Lijun

Yes, the exact same thing happened to me. I got unsubscribed from all
vger mailing lists.

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[Benjamin Poirier]

On 2021-10-22 18:54 +0300, Vladimir Oltean wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 18:53, Lijun Pan <lijunp213@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > From Oct 11, I did not receive any emails from both linux-kernel and
> > netdev mailing list. Did anyone encounter the same issue? I subscribed
> > again and I can receive incoming emails now. However, I figured out
> > that anyone can unsubscribe your email without authentication. Maybe
> > it is just a one-time issue that someone accidentally unsubscribed my
> > email. But I would recommend that our admin can add one more
> > authentication step before unsubscription to make the process more
> > secure.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Lijun
> 
> Yes, the exact same thing happened to me. I got unsubscribed from all
> vger mailing lists.

It happened to a bunch of people on gmail:
https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/1fd8d0ac-ba8a-4836-59ab-0ed3b0321775@mojatatu.com/t/#u

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[Slade Watkins]

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 12:43 AM Benjamin Poirier
<benjamin.poirier@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 2021-10-22 18:54 +0300, Vladimir Oltean wrote:
> > On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 18:53, Lijun Pan <lijunp213@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > From Oct 11, I did not receive any emails from both linux-kernel and
> > > netdev mailing list. Did anyone encounter the same issue? I subscribed
> > > again and I can receive incoming emails now. However, I figured out
> > > that anyone can unsubscribe your email without authentication. Maybe
> > > it is just a one-time issue that someone accidentally unsubscribed my
> > > email. But I would recommend that our admin can add one more
> > > authentication step before unsubscription to make the process more
> > > secure.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Lijun
> >
> > Yes, the exact same thing happened to me. I got unsubscribed from all
> > vger mailing lists.
>
> It happened to a bunch of people on gmail:
> https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/1fd8d0ac-ba8a-4836-59ab-0ed3b0321775@mojatatu.com/t/#u

I can at least confirm that this didn't happen to me on my hosted
Gmail through Google Workspace. Could be wrong, but it seems isolated
to normal @gmail.com accounts.

Best,
             -slade

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[Metztli Information Technology]

On 10/25/21 10:04 AM, Slade Watkins wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 12:43 AM Benjamin Poirier
> <benjamin.poirier@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2021-10-22 18:54 +0300, Vladimir Oltean wrote:
>>> On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 18:53, Lijun Pan <lijunp213@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>  From Oct 11, I did not receive any emails from both linux-kernel and
>>>> netdev mailing list. Did anyone encounter the same issue? I subscribed
>>>> again and I can receive incoming emails now. However, I figured out
>>>> that anyone can unsubscribe your email without authentication. Maybe
>>>> it is just a one-time issue that someone accidentally unsubscribed my
>>>> email. But I would recommend that our admin can add one more
>>>> authentication step before unsubscription to make the process more
>>>> secure.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Lijun
>>> Yes, the exact same thing happened to me. I got unsubscribed from all
>>> vger mailing lists.
>> It happened to a bunch of people on gmail:
>> https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/1fd8d0ac-ba8a-4836-59ab-0ed3b0321775@mojatatu.com/t/#u
> I can at least confirm that this didn't happen to me on my hosted
> Gmail through Google Workspace. Could be wrong, but it seems isolated
> to normal @gmail.com accounts.
>
> Best,
>               -slade

Niltze [Hello], all-

Could it have something to do with the following?

---------- Forwarded message ---------

From: Alan Coopersmith <alan.coopersmith@oracle.com>
Date: Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 12:06 PM
Subject: [oss-security] Mailman 2.1.35 security release
To: <oss-security@lists.openwall.com>


Quoting from Mark Sapiro's emails at:
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-announce@python.org/thread/IKCO6JU755AP5G5TKMBJL6IEZQTTNPDQ/

 > A couple of vulnerabilities have recently been reported. Thanks to Andre
 > Protas, Richard Cloke and Andy Nuttall of Apple for reporting these and
 > helping with the development of a fix.
 >
 > CVE-2021-42096 could allow a list member to discover the list admin
 > password.
 >
 > CVE-2021-42097 could allow a list member to create a successful CSRF
 > attack against another list member enabling takeover of the members 
account.
 >
 > These attacks can't be carried out by non-members so may not be of
 > concern for sites with only trusted list members.


 > I am pleased to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.35.
 >
 > This is a security and minor bug fix release. See the attached
 > README.txt for details. For those who just want a patch for the security
 > issues, see
 > https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1873.
 > The patch is also attached to the bug reports at
 > https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1947639 and
 > https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1947640. The patch is the same
 > on both and fixes both issues.
 >
 > As noted Mailman 2.1.30 was the last feature release of the Mailman 2.1
 > branch from the GNU Mailman project. There has been some discussion as
 > to what this means. It means there will be no more releases from the GNU
 > Mailman project containing any new features. There may be future patch
 > releases to address the following:
 >
 > i18n updates.
 > security issues.
 > bugs affecting operation for which no satisfactory workaround exists.
 >
 > Mailman 2.1.35 is the fifth such patch release.
 >
 > Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
 > e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
 > SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.
 >
 > For more information, please see our web site at one of:
 >
 > http://www.list.org
 > https://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
 > http://mailman.sourceforge.net/
 >
 > Mailman 2.1.35 can be downloaded from
 >
 > https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/
 > https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/
 > https://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman/

 > --
 >        -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@oracle.com
 >         Oracle Solaris Engineering - https://blogs.oracle.com/alanc


Best Professional Regards.

-- 
Jose R R
http://metztli.it
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Download Metztli Reiser4: Debian Bullseye w/ Linux 5.13.14 AMD64
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
feats ZSTD compression https://sf.net/projects/metztli-reiser4/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
or SFRN 5.1.3, Metztli Reiser5 https://sf.net/projects/debian-reiser4/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Official current Reiser4 resources: https://reiser4.wiki.kernel.org/

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[Slade Watkins]

Hi there,

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 2:08 PM Metztli Information Technology
<jose.r.r@metztli.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 10/25/21 10:04 AM, Slade Watkins wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 12:43 AM Benjamin Poirier
> > <benjamin.poirier@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 2021-10-22 18:54 +0300, Vladimir Oltean wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 18:53, Lijun Pan <lijunp213@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>>  From Oct 11, I did not receive any emails from both linux-kernel and
> >>>> netdev mailing list. Did anyone encounter the same issue? I subscribed
> >>>> again and I can receive incoming emails now. However, I figured out
> >>>> that anyone can unsubscribe your email without authentication. Maybe
> >>>> it is just a one-time issue that someone accidentally unsubscribed my
> >>>> email. But I would recommend that our admin can add one more
> >>>> authentication step before unsubscription to make the process more
> >>>> secure.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Lijun
> >>> Yes, the exact same thing happened to me. I got unsubscribed from all
> >>> vger mailing lists.
> >> It happened to a bunch of people on gmail:
> >> https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/1fd8d0ac-ba8a-4836-59ab-0ed3b0321775@mojatatu.com/t/#u
> > I can at least confirm that this didn't happen to me on my hosted
> > Gmail through Google Workspace. Could be wrong, but it seems isolated
> > to normal @gmail.com accounts.
> >
> > Best,
> >               -slade
>
> Niltze [Hello], all-
>
> Could it have something to do with the following?
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>
> From: Alan Coopersmith <alan.coopersmith@oracle.com>
> Date: Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 12:06 PM
> Subject: [oss-security] Mailman 2.1.35 security release
> To: <oss-security@lists.openwall.com>
>
>
> Quoting from Mark Sapiro's emails at:
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-announce@python.org/thread/IKCO6JU755AP5G5TKMBJL6IEZQTTNPDQ/
>
>  > A couple of vulnerabilities have recently been reported. Thanks to Andre
>  > Protas, Richard Cloke and Andy Nuttall of Apple for reporting these and
>  > helping with the development of a fix.
>  >
>  > CVE-2021-42096 could allow a list member to discover the list admin
>  > password.
>  >
>  > CVE-2021-42097 could allow a list member to create a successful CSRF
>  > attack against another list member enabling takeover of the members
> account.
>  >
>  > These attacks can't be carried out by non-members so may not be of
>  > concern for sites with only trusted list members.

Maybe? Are the kernel lists hosted through mailman or something based
on it that would be affected by these CVEs? It has been so long since
I last looked into it that I genuinely do not remember.

>
>
>  > I am pleased to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.35.
>  >
>  > This is a security and minor bug fix release. See the attached
>  > README.txt for details. For those who just want a patch for the security
>  > issues, see
>  > https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1873.
>  > The patch is also attached to the bug reports at
>  > https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1947639 and
>  > https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1947640. The patch is the same
>  > on both and fixes both issues.
>  >
>  > As noted Mailman 2.1.30 was the last feature release of the Mailman 2.1
>  > branch from the GNU Mailman project. There has been some discussion as
>  > to what this means. It means there will be no more releases from the GNU
>  > Mailman project containing any new features. There may be future patch
>  > releases to address the following:
>  >
>  > i18n updates.
>  > security issues.
>  > bugs affecting operation for which no satisfactory workaround exists.
>  >
>  > Mailman 2.1.35 is the fifth such patch release.
>  >
>  > Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
>  > e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
>  > SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.
>  >
>  > For more information, please see our web site at one of:
>  >
>  > http://www.list.org
>  > https://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
>  > http://mailman.sourceforge.net/
>  >
>  > Mailman 2.1.35 can be downloaded from
>  >
>  > https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/
>  > https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/
>  > https://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman/
>
>  > --
>  >        -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@oracle.com
>  >         Oracle Solaris Engineering - https://blogs.oracle.com/alanc
>
>
> Best Professional Regards.
>
> --
> Jose R R
> http://metztli.it
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Download Metztli Reiser4: Debian Bullseye w/ Linux 5.13.14 AMD64
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> feats ZSTD compression https://sf.net/projects/metztli-reiser4/
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> or SFRN 5.1.3, Metztli Reiser5 https://sf.net/projects/debian-reiser4/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Official current Reiser4 resources: https://reiser4.wiki.kernel.org/

Thanks,
             -slade

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[Shannon Nelson]

On 10/25/21 10:04 AM, Slade Watkins wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 12:43 AM Benjamin Poirier
> <benjamin.poirier@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2021-10-22 18:54 +0300, Vladimir Oltean wrote:
>>> On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 18:53, Lijun Pan <lijunp213@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>  From Oct 11, I did not receive any emails from both linux-kernel and
>>>> netdev mailing list. Did anyone encounter the same issue? I subscribed
>>>> again and I can receive incoming emails now. However, I figured out
>>>> that anyone can unsubscribe your email without authentication. Maybe
>>>> it is just a one-time issue that someone accidentally unsubscribed my
>>>> email. But I would recommend that our admin can add one more
>>>> authentication step before unsubscription to make the process more
>>>> secure.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Lijun
>>> Yes, the exact same thing happened to me. I got unsubscribed from all
>>> vger mailing lists.
>> It happened to a bunch of people on gmail:
>> https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/1fd8d0ac-ba8a-4836-59ab-0ed3b0321775@mojatatu.com/t/#u
> I can at least confirm that this didn't happen to me on my hosted
> Gmail through Google Workspace. Could be wrong, but it seems isolated
> to normal @gmail.com accounts.
>
> Best,
>               -slade

Alternatively, I can confirm that my pensando.io address through gmail 
was affected until I re-subscribed.
sln

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[Slade Watkins]

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 2:34 PM Shannon Nelson <snelson@pensando.io> wrote:
>
> On 10/25/21 10:04 AM, Slade Watkins wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 12:43 AM Benjamin Poirier
> > <benjamin.poirier@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 2021-10-22 18:54 +0300, Vladimir Oltean wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 18:53, Lijun Pan <lijunp213@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>>  From Oct 11, I did not receive any emails from both linux-kernel and
> >>>> netdev mailing list. Did anyone encounter the same issue? I subscribed
> >>>> again and I can receive incoming emails now. However, I figured out
> >>>> that anyone can unsubscribe your email without authentication. Maybe
> >>>> it is just a one-time issue that someone accidentally unsubscribed my
> >>>> email. But I would recommend that our admin can add one more
> >>>> authentication step before unsubscription to make the process more
> >>>> secure.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Lijun
> >>> Yes, the exact same thing happened to me. I got unsubscribed from all
> >>> vger mailing lists.
> >> It happened to a bunch of people on gmail:
> >> https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/1fd8d0ac-ba8a-4836-59ab-0ed3b0321775@mojatatu.com/t/#u
> > I can at least confirm that this didn't happen to me on my hosted
> > Gmail through Google Workspace. Could be wrong, but it seems isolated
> > to normal @gmail.com accounts.
> >
> > Best,
> >               -slade
>
> Alternatively, I can confirm that my pensando.io address through gmail
> was affected until I re-subscribed.

Hm. Must be a hit or miss thing, then.

> sln
>
>
>

             -slade

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[Metztli Information Technology]

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 1:14 PM Slade Watkins <slade@sladewatkins.com> 
wrote:
>
> On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 2:34 PM Shannon Nelson <snelson@pensando.io> wrote:
> >
> > On 10/25/21 10:04 AM, Slade Watkins wrote:
> > > On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 12:43 AM Benjamin Poirier
> > > <benjamin.poirier@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On 2021-10-22 18:54 +0300, Vladimir Oltean wrote:
> > >>> On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 18:53, Lijun Pan <lijunp213@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>> Hi,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  From Oct 11, I did not receive any emails from both linux-kernel and
> > >>>> netdev mailing list. Did anyone encounter the same issue? I subscribed
> > >>>> again and I can receive incoming emails now. However, I figured out
> > >>>> that anyone can unsubscribe your email without authentication. Maybe
> > >>>> it is just a one-time issue that someone accidentally unsubscribed my
> > >>>> email. But I would recommend that our admin can add one more
> > >>>> authentication step before unsubscription to make the process more
> > >>>> secure.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>> Lijun
> > >>> Yes, the exact same thing happened to me. I got unsubscribed from all
> > >>> vger mailing lists.
> > >> It happened to a bunch of people on gmail:
> > >> https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/1fd8d0ac-ba8a-4836-59ab-0ed3b0321775@mojatatu.com/t/#u
> > > I can at least confirm that this didn't happen to me on my hosted
> > > Gmail through Google Workspace. Could be wrong, but it seems isolated
> > > to normal @gmail.com accounts.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >               -slade
> >
> > Alternatively, I can confirm that my pensando.io address through gmail
> > was affected until I re-subscribed.
>
> Hm. Must be a hit or miss thing, then.
>
> > sln
> >
> >
> >
>
>              -slade

Well, it seems it is making the rounds in 2022. I have not received an 
email from Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org> (and 
neither the Virtual Box developers mailing list
< 
https://www.virtualbox.org/pipermail/vbox-dev/2022-February/015710.html 
 > ) since sometime within Jan. 26, 2022, to the present; hence, I 
assume somebody (or some skiddie) unsubscribed me.

  The last Jan. 26, 2022, email I sent to the list also included the 
reiser4 developer as an addressee -- as I have experienced some issues 
with newer kernels (and thought someone else might even provide a hint).
< https://lkml.org/lkml/2022/1/26/204 >

Apropos (off-topic, sorry, yet if this email makes it to the Linux 
kernel mailing list and other developers know him), I am somewhat 
concerned about Mr. Shiskin's well being  -- as his continued Reiser4 
work for the Linux kernel is appreciated by at least those of us who -- 
in stark contrast to 'the chosen ones' -- we do not pretend to be 
morally superior to judge and pontificate to others.

Last reiser4 patch (hack) that is working decently for me:
< https://metztli.it/bullseye/reiser4-ryzen.png >

I will resubscribe to Linux Kernel Mailing List 
<linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>; unless, of course, I have been placed on 
a black list by the Penguins and/or their 'morally virtuous' 
govt/corporate overlords ;-)


Best Professional Regards.

-- 
Jose R R
http://metztli.it
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Download Metztli Reiser4: Debian Bullseye w/ Linux 5.14.21 AMD64
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
feats ZSTD compression https://sf.net/projects/metztli-reiser4/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
or SFRN 5.1.3, Metztli Reiser5 https://sf.net/projects/debian-reiser4/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Official current Reiser4 resources: https://reiser4.wiki.kernel.org/

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[Slade Watkins]

On Sun, Feb 20, 2022, at 6:54 PM, Metztli Information Technology wrote:
> I will resubscribe to Linux Kernel Mailing List 
> <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>; unless, of course, I have been placed on 
> a black list by the Penguins and/or their 'morally virtuous' 
> govt/corporate overlords ;-)

Hi there,
I doubt that you got black listed, or that anything like that is what happened here... I personally believe your situation may've been a fluke, but it also may not have been. Hard to tell because I haven't seen anything else come across my inbox similar to this besides your email. Who knows.

All I can say for sure is I haven't seen your name cross my inbox in a _while_ so something definitely happened.

Cheers,
Slade

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[Jakub Kicinski]

On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 11:34:28 -0700 Shannon Nelson wrote:
> >> It happened to a bunch of people on gmail:
> >> https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/1fd8d0ac-ba8a-4836-59ab-0ed3b0321775@mojatatu.com/t/#u  
> > I can at least confirm that this didn't happen to me on my hosted
> > Gmail through Google Workspace. Could be wrong, but it seems isolated
> > to normal @gmail.com accounts.
> >
> > Best,
> >               -slade  
> 
> Alternatively, I can confirm that my pensando.io address through gmail 
> was affected until I re-subscribed.

Did it just work after re-subscribing again? Without cleaning the inbox?
John indicated off list that Gmail started returning errors related to
quota, no idea what that translates to in reality maybe they added some
heuristic on too many emails from one source?

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[Shannon Nelson]

On 10/27/21 12:34 PM, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 11:34:28 -0700 Shannon Nelson wrote:
>>>> It happened to a bunch of people on gmail:
>>>> https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/1fd8d0ac-ba8a-4836-59ab-0ed3b0321775@mojatatu.com/t/#u
>>> I can at least confirm that this didn't happen to me on my hosted
>>> Gmail through Google Workspace. Could be wrong, but it seems isolated
>>> to normal @gmail.com accounts.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>                -slade
>> Alternatively, I can confirm that my pensando.io address through gmail
>> was affected until I re-subscribed.
> Did it just work after re-subscribing again? Without cleaning the inbox?
> John indicated off list that Gmail started returning errors related to
> quota, no idea what that translates to in reality maybe they added some
> heuristic on too many emails from one source?

I have two separate accounts through gmail, both of which got dropped:
snelson@pensando.io
shannon.lee.nelson@gmail.com

All I did to restore service was resubscribe to the mailing list for 
both of these accounts.

Neither account has any issue with quota or available storage space that 
I am aware of.

sln

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[John 'Warthog9' Hawley]

On 10/27/21 12:34 PM, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 11:34:28 -0700 Shannon Nelson wrote:
>>>> It happened to a bunch of people on gmail:
>>>> https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/1fd8d0ac-ba8a-4836-59ab-0ed3b0321775@mojatatu.com/t/#u  
>>> I can at least confirm that this didn't happen to me on my hosted
>>> Gmail through Google Workspace. Could be wrong, but it seems isolated
>>> to normal @gmail.com accounts.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>               -slade  
>>
>> Alternatively, I can confirm that my pensando.io address through gmail 
>> was affected until I re-subscribed.
> 
> Did it just work after re-subscribing again? Without cleaning the inbox?
> John indicated off list that Gmail started returning errors related to
> quota, no idea what that translates to in reality maybe they added some
> heuristic on too many emails from one source?

At least for the users I've had anyone mention to me (which for the
record apparently this happened on the 11th, and people are only
reaching out now about), the reasons for the unsubscribe was that the
upstream servers were reporting that the users in question were over
quota permanently.  We take that hinting at face value, and since the
server is telling us (basically) that the user isn't going to be
accepting mail anytime soon, we go ahead and unsubscribe them and clear
the queue so that the users don't cause unnecessary back log.  Noting,
this is an automated process that runs and deals with this that runs
periodically.

Also noting, that there's not a good way to notify individuals when this
happens because, unsurprisingly, their email providers aren't accepting
mail from us.

If folks reach out to postmaster@ I'm more than happy to take a look at
the 'why' something happened, and I'm happy to re-subscribe folks in the
backend saving them the back and forth with majorodomo's command system.

If I had to speculate, something glitched at gmail, a subset of users
got an odd error code returned (which likely wasn't the correct error
code for the situation, and noting the number of affected users is
fairly small given the number of users from gmail that are subscribed).
 Likely similar to when gmail had that big outage and it reported
something way off base and as a result every gmail user got unsubscribed
(and subsequently resubscribed in the backend by me when the outage was
over).

- John 'Warthog9' Hawley

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[Slade Watkins]

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 4:42 PM John 'Warthog9' Hawley
<warthog9@eaglescrag.net> wrote:
>
> On 10/27/21 12:34 PM, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> > On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 11:34:28 -0700 Shannon Nelson wrote:
> >>>> It happened to a bunch of people on gmail:
> >>>> https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/1fd8d0ac-ba8a-4836-59ab-0ed3b0321775@mojatatu.com/t/#u
> >>> I can at least confirm that this didn't happen to me on my hosted
> >>> Gmail through Google Workspace. Could be wrong, but it seems isolated
> >>> to normal @gmail.com accounts.
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>>
> >>
> >> Alternatively, I can confirm that my pensando.io address through gmail
> >> was affected until I re-subscribed.
> >
> > Did it just work after re-subscribing again? Without cleaning the inbox?
> > John indicated off list that Gmail started returning errors related to
> > quota, no idea what that translates to in reality maybe they added some
> > heuristic on too many emails from one source?
>
> At least for the users I've had anyone mention to me (which for the
> record apparently this happened on the 11th, and people are only
> reaching out now about), the reasons for the unsubscribe was that the
> upstream servers were reporting that the users in question were over
> quota permanently.  We take that hinting at face value, and since the
> server is telling us (basically) that the user isn't going to be
> accepting mail anytime soon, we go ahead and unsubscribe them and clear
> the queue so that the users don't cause unnecessary back log.  Noting,
> this is an automated process that runs and deals with this that runs
> periodically.
>
> Also noting, that there's not a good way to notify individuals when this
> happens because, unsurprisingly, their email providers aren't accepting
> mail from us.
>
> If folks reach out to postmaster@ I'm more than happy to take a look at
> the 'why' something happened, and I'm happy to re-subscribe folks in the
> backend saving them the back and forth with majorodomo's command system.
>

John,
That's great.

>
> If I had to speculate, something glitched at gmail, a subset of users
> got an odd error code returned (which likely wasn't the correct error
> code for the situation, and noting the number of affected users is
> fairly small given the number of users from gmail that are subscribed).
>  Likely similar to when gmail had that big outage and it reported
> something way off base and as a result every gmail user got unsubscribed
> (and subsequently resubscribed in the backend by me when the outage was
> over).
>

Is there any way to detect if something like that affects Google
Workspace hosted inboxes too? Sounds like those in that group who were
affected were very few though but I thought I'd ask anyway.

>
> - John 'Warthog9' Hawley
>

Thanks,
             -slade

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[John 'Warthog9' Hawley]

On 10/27/21 17:27, Slade Watkins wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 4:42 PM John 'Warthog9' Hawley
> <warthog9@eaglescrag.net> wrote:
>>
>> On 10/27/21 12:34 PM, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 11:34:28 -0700 Shannon Nelson wrote:
>>>>>> It happened to a bunch of people on gmail:
>>>>>> https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/1fd8d0ac-ba8a-4836-59ab-0ed3b0321775@mojatatu.com/t/#u
>>>>> I can at least confirm that this didn't happen to me on my hosted
>>>>> Gmail through Google Workspace. Could be wrong, but it seems isolated
>>>>> to normal @gmail.com accounts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alternatively, I can confirm that my pensando.io address through gmail
>>>> was affected until I re-subscribed.
>>>
>>> Did it just work after re-subscribing again? Without cleaning the inbox?
>>> John indicated off list that Gmail started returning errors related to
>>> quota, no idea what that translates to in reality maybe they added some
>>> heuristic on too many emails from one source?
>>
>> At least for the users I've had anyone mention to me (which for the
>> record apparently this happened on the 11th, and people are only
>> reaching out now about), the reasons for the unsubscribe was that the
>> upstream servers were reporting that the users in question were over
>> quota permanently.  We take that hinting at face value, and since the
>> server is telling us (basically) that the user isn't going to be
>> accepting mail anytime soon, we go ahead and unsubscribe them and clear
>> the queue so that the users don't cause unnecessary back log.  Noting,
>> this is an automated process that runs and deals with this that runs
>> periodically.
>>
>> Also noting, that there's not a good way to notify individuals when this
>> happens because, unsurprisingly, their email providers aren't accepting
>> mail from us.
>>
>> If folks reach out to postmaster@ I'm more than happy to take a look at
>> the 'why' something happened, and I'm happy to re-subscribe folks in the
>> backend saving them the back and forth with majorodomo's command system.
>>
> 
> John,
> That's great.
> 
>>
>> If I had to speculate, something glitched at gmail, a subset of users
>> got an odd error code returned (which likely wasn't the correct error
>> code for the situation, and noting the number of affected users is
>> fairly small given the number of users from gmail that are subscribed).
>>   Likely similar to when gmail had that big outage and it reported
>> something way off base and as a result every gmail user got unsubscribed
>> (and subsequently resubscribed in the backend by me when the outage was
>> over).
>>
> 
> Is there any way to detect if something like that affects Google
> Workspace hosted inboxes too? Sounds like those in that group who were
> affected were very few though but I thought I'd ask anyway.

Looking back around then it looks like a few individual users might have 
been, but it's sporadic on the domains that aren't gmail.com, so it 
doesn't look like (to what I can see anyway) it was a full worksapce for 
instance.

The real problem is the error that was getting kicked back was a generic 
enough error, that's it's hard to tell what users may have actually been 
over quota vs. something else.

- John 'Warthog9' Hawley

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[Cong Wang]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 10:53:28AM -0500, Lijun Pan wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> From Oct 11, I did not receive any emails from both linux-kernel and
> netdev mailing list. Did anyone encounter the same issue? I subscribed
> again and I can receive incoming emails now. However, I figured out
> that anyone can unsubscribe your email without authentication. Maybe
> it is just a one-time issue that someone accidentally unsubscribed my
> email. But I would recommend that our admin can add one more
> authentication step before unsubscription to make the process more
> secure.
> 

Same here.

Fortunately I just switched to lei:
https://josefbacik.github.io/kernel/2021/10/18/lei-and-b4.html
so I can unsubscribe all kernel mailing lists now.

Thanks.

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[Slade Watkins]

Hi,
On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 4:10 PM Cong Wang <xiyou.wangcong@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 10:53:28AM -0500, Lijun Pan wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > From Oct 11, I did not receive any emails from both linux-kernel and
> > netdev mailing list. Did anyone encounter the same issue? I subscribed
> > again and I can receive incoming emails now. However, I figured out
> > that anyone can unsubscribe your email without authentication. Maybe
> > it is just a one-time issue that someone accidentally unsubscribed my
> > email. But I would recommend that our admin can add one more
> > authentication step before unsubscription to make the process more
> > secure.
> >
>
> Same here.
>
> Fortunately I just switched to lei:
> https://josefbacik.github.io/kernel/2021/10/18/lei-and-b4.html
> so I can unsubscribe all kernel mailing lists now.

Not a bad workaround! I may consider trying this out. Thanks for
sending this along.

I'd still love to figure out why the whole "randomly unsubscribing
people who want to be subscribed" thing is happening in the first
place, though.

>
> Thanks.

Cheers,
             -slade

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[Randy Dunlap]

On 10/26/21 5:02 PM, Slade Watkins wrote:
> Hi,
> On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 4:10 PM Cong Wang <xiyou.wangcong@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 10:53:28AM -0500, Lijun Pan wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>  From Oct 11, I did not receive any emails from both linux-kernel and
>>> netdev mailing list. Did anyone encounter the same issue? I subscribed
>>> again and I can receive incoming emails now. However, I figured out
>>> that anyone can unsubscribe your email without authentication. Maybe
>>> it is just a one-time issue that someone accidentally unsubscribed my
>>> email. But I would recommend that our admin can add one more
>>> authentication step before unsubscription to make the process more
>>> secure.
>>>
>>
>> Same here.
>>
>> Fortunately I just switched to lei:
>> https://josefbacik.github.io/kernel/2021/10/18/lei-and-b4.html
>> so I can unsubscribe all kernel mailing lists now.
> 
> Not a bad workaround! I may consider trying this out. Thanks for
> sending this along.
> 
> I'd still love to figure out why the whole "randomly unsubscribing
> people who want to be subscribed" thing is happening in the first
> place, though.

Then you should try <postmaster@vger.kernel.org> for assistance.

-- 
~Randy

Re: Unsubscription Incident

[Richard Cochran]

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 12:29:34PM -0700, Randy Dunlap wrote:
> Then you should try <postmaster@vger.kernel.org> for assistance.

Hm, are you that isn't connected to /dev/null?

Last time I wrote to the postmaster (not about present issue), I
didn't get any response at all.

Thanks,
Richard