Documentation for UML Vector network

Documentation for UML Vector network

[Ritesh Raj Sarraf]

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Hi,

I see in the latest changes for Linux in Linus's tree, that the
previous networking modes have been marked obsolete.

Is there any official documentation on how to use the new Vector
network in UML ? Or does it stand transparent to the users ?

-- 
Ritesh Raj Sarraf
RESEARCHUT - http://www.researchut.com
"Necessity is the mother of invention."

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Re: Documentation for UML Vector network

[Anton Ivanov]

On 12/02/2020 10:38, Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I see in the latest changes for Linux in Linus's tree, that the
> previous networking modes have been marked obsolete.
> 
> Is there any official documentation on how to use the new Vector
> network in UML ? Or does it stand transparent to the users ?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> linux-um mailing list
> linux-um@lists.infradead.org
> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-um
> 
1. A patch to make it transparent replacement for whatever is possible from the old transports is in the queue

2. I was going to spend most of next week to rewrite the bits and pieces from my website on how to use it and incorporate them into the official docs and submit them as a patch to Documentation.

-- 
Anton R. Ivanov
https://www.kot-begemot.co.uk/

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Re: Documentation for UML Vector network

[Ritesh Raj Sarraf]

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Hi Anton,

On Wed, 2020-02-12 at 11:15 +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote:
> 1. A patch to make it transparent replacement for whatever is
> possible from the old transports is in the queue
> 
> 2. I was going to spend most of next week to rewrite the bits and
> pieces from my website on how to use it and incorporate them into the
> official docs and submit them as a patch to Documentation.

I did skim through your website looking for pointers in that direction.

Given that UML@SourceForge is very outdated, I suggest a different
location. I also recollect Richard was considering moving to a wiki on
a much reliable and maintained location, like uml.wiki.kernel.org. But
I think that hasn't happened.

In my opinion, one good candidate where UML documentation could be
maintained is:
Documentation/virt/uml/UserModeLinux-HOWTO.txt


That document is a dump of the UML@SourceForge website content. Having
it in the kernel tree may have a better maintenance life.

-- 
Ritesh Raj Sarraf
RESEARCHUT - http://www.researchut.com
"Necessity is the mother of invention."

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Re: Documentation for UML Vector network

[Anton Ivanov]

On 12/02/2020 15:40, Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
> Hi Anton,
> 
> On Wed, 2020-02-12 at 11:15 +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote:
>> 1. A patch to make it transparent replacement for whatever is
>> possible from the old transports is in the queue
>>
>> 2. I was going to spend most of next week to rewrite the bits and
>> pieces from my website on how to use it and incorporate them into the
>> official docs and submit them as a patch to Documentation.
> 
> I did skim through your website looking for pointers in that direction.
> 
> Given that UML@SourceForge is very outdated, I suggest a different
> location. I also recollect Richard was considering moving to a wiki on
> a much reliable and maintained location, like uml.wiki.kernel.org. But
> I think that hasn't happened.
> 
> In my opinion, one good candidate where UML documentation could be
> maintained is:
> Documentation/virt/uml/UserModeLinux-HOWTO.txt

In first instance I intend to update that. There is actually a .rd markup version in progress for the next kernel versions.

A wiki will be nice, because there is no way to fit all new UML features like direct tunnel/overlay attachment, time travel, etc in the documentation in the kernel tree.

Brgds,

> 
> 
> That document is a dump of the UML@SourceForge website content. Having
> it in the kernel tree may have a better maintenance life.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> linux-um mailing list
> linux-um@lists.infradead.org
> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-um
> 

-- 
Anton R. Ivanov
https://www.kot-begemot.co.uk/

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Re: Documentation for UML Vector network

[Ritesh Raj Sarraf]

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Hi Anton,

On Wed, 2020-02-12 at 15:54 +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote:
> In first instance I intend to update that. There is actually a .rd
> markup version in progress for the next kernel versions.
> 
> A wiki will be nice, because there is no way to fit all new UML
> features like direct tunnel/overlay attachment, time travel, etc in
> the documentation in the kernel tree.

A follow-up question.

The traditional UML networking modes supported slirp, which allowed for
unprivileged networking access. 

Is that something achievable with UML Vector network ?
We have a use case where we want to be able be capable to use UML with
network features. But do not have necessary privileges to set
networking up on the host.


-- 
Ritesh Raj Sarraf
RESEARCHUT - http://www.researchut.com
"Necessity is the mother of invention."

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Re: Documentation for UML Vector network

[Anton Ivanov]

On 14/02/2020 11:38, Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
> Hi Anton,
> 
> On Wed, 2020-02-12 at 15:54 +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote:
>> In first instance I intend to update that. There is actually a .rd
>> markup version in progress for the next kernel versions.
>>
>> A wiki will be nice, because there is no way to fit all new UML
>> features like direct tunnel/overlay attachment, time travel, etc in
>> the documentation in the kernel tree.
> 
> A follow-up question.
> 
> The traditional UML networking modes supported slirp, which allowed for
> unprivileged networking access.
> 
> Is that something achievable with UML Vector network ?

If "completely unprivileged" networking is desired, it is achievable 
with an external slirp helper.

We may need to update UML utilities so it talks to an existing transport 
in UML (f.e. one of the unix domain socket ones).

Alternatively, if we are talking from a distro packaging perspective, I 
would suggest giving the UML binary raw socket capabilities the way 
tcpdump and wireshark postinst do it.

After that it can just hook up to a suitable interface in the system 
using raw sockets while running as unprivileged user.


> We have a use case where we want to be able be capable to use UML with
> network features. But do not have necessary privileges to set
> networking up on the host.
> 
> 

Brgds,


-- 
Anton R. Ivanov
https://www.kot-begemot.co.uk/

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Re: Documentation for UML Vector network

[Anton Ivanov]

On 14/02/2020 11:38, Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote:
> Hi Anton,
> 
> On Wed, 2020-02-12 at 15:54 +0000, Anton Ivanov wrote:
>> In first instance I intend to update that. There is actually a .rd
>> markup version in progress for the next kernel versions.
>>
>> A wiki will be nice, because there is no way to fit all new UML
>> features like direct tunnel/overlay attachment, time travel, etc in
>> the documentation in the kernel tree.
> 
> A follow-up question.
> 
> The traditional UML networking modes supported slirp, which allowed for
> unprivileged networking access.
> 
> Is that something achievable with UML Vector network ?
> We have a use case where we want to be able be capable to use UML with
> network features. But do not have necessary privileges to set
> networking up on the host.

Apologies for the delay, I was started writing it in February, but had to drop it and work on something else for most of March.

The first 3 sections are at: https://github.com/kot-begemot-uk/uml-howto-v2

This includes vector driver documentation.

I will continue working through the old howto rearranging the sections as I go along and adding the new stuff.

Once it is all done and assembled, the end result should be a fully revised doc.

I am happy to handle proposed changes as pull requests.

Brgds,

> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> linux-um mailing list
> linux-um@lists.infradead.org
> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-um
> 

-- 
Anton R. Ivanov
https://www.kot-begemot.co.uk/

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Re: Documentation for UML Vector network

[Ritesh Raj Sarraf]

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On Tue, 2020-04-07 at 17:36 +0100, Anton Ivanov wrote:
> 
> I am happy to handle proposed changes as pull requests.

Thank you for following up on this one. There's one item I felt could
be expanded. I created a PR for it on the Github repo.

I felt this was worth documenting because UML's prime selling point is
that it can run as a normal user.

https://github.com/kot-begemot-uk/uml-howto-v2/pull/1


Thanks,
Ritesh

-- 
Ritesh Raj Sarraf
RESEARCHUT - http://www.researchut.com
"Necessity is the mother of invention."

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Re: Documentation for UML Vector network

[Geert Uytterhoeven]

Hi Ritesh,

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 1:05 PM Ritesh Raj Sarraf <rrs@researchut.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 2020-04-07 at 17:36 +0100, Anton Ivanov wrote:
> > I am happy to handle proposed changes as pull requests.
>
> Thank you for following up on this one. There's one item I felt could
> be expanded. I created a PR for it on the Github repo.
>
> I felt this was worth documenting because UML's prime selling point is
> that it can run as a normal user.
>
> https://github.com/kot-begemot-uk/uml-howto-v2/pull/1

> Netowrk configuration privilege

Network

And then there's slirp...

Gr{oetje,eeting}s,

                        Geert

-- 
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org

In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
                                -- Linus Torvalds

Re: Documentation for UML Vector network

[Anton Ivanov]

On 08/04/2020 13:40, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> Hi Ritesh,
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 1:05 PM Ritesh Raj Sarraf <rrs@researchut.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 2020-04-07 at 17:36 +0100, Anton Ivanov wrote:
>>> I am happy to handle proposed changes as pull requests.
>> Thank you for following up on this one. There's one item I felt could
>> be expanded. I created a PR for it on the Github repo.
>>
>> I felt this was worth documenting because UML's prime selling point is
>> that it can run as a normal user.
>>
>> https://github.com/kot-begemot-uk/uml-howto-v2/pull/1
>> Netowrk configuration privilege
> Network

Thanks.

>
> And then there's slirp...

I know... it is something I need to figure out on how to do with the vector framework.

The patch proposed yesterday to add a generic fd transport goes half-way to fix that, all it needs is sorting out the helper to do the actual slirp processing.

>
> Gr{oetje,eeting}s,
>
>                          Geert
>
-- 
Anton R. Ivanov
https://www.kot-begemot.co.uk/

Re: Documentation for UML Vector network

[Marc-André Lureau]

Hi Anton

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 2:59 PM Anton Ivanov
<anton.ivanov@kot-begemot.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> On 08/04/2020 13:40, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> > Hi Ritesh,
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 1:05 PM Ritesh Raj Sarraf <rrs@researchut.com> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 2020-04-07 at 17:36 +0100, Anton Ivanov wrote:
> >>> I am happy to handle proposed changes as pull requests.
> >> Thank you for following up on this one. There's one item I felt could
> >> be expanded. I created a PR for it on the Github repo.
> >>
> >> I felt this was worth documenting because UML's prime selling point is
> >> that it can run as a normal user.
> >>
> >> https://github.com/kot-begemot-uk/uml-howto-v2/pull/1
> >> Netowrk configuration privilege
> > Network
>
> Thanks.
>
> >
> > And then there's slirp...
>
> I know... it is something I need to figure out on how to do with the vector framework.
>
> The patch proposed yesterday to add a generic fd transport goes half-way to fix that, all it needs is sorting out the helper to do the actual slirp processing.
>

Yes, I started writing a spec for slirp helpers:
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/slirp/libslirp/-/wikis/Slirp-Helper

With libslirp-helper (from
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/slirp/libslirp-rs) or slirpnetstack
(from https://github.com/majek/slirpnetstack) you can simply specify
--fd= with a socketpair connected to the vec driver.

I also started a discussion for easier/better user networking for VM &
containers with NM:
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/NetworkManager/NetworkManager/issues/382.

Your input is welcome!


> >
> > Gr{oetje,eeting}s,
> >
> >                          Geert
> >
> --
> Anton R. Ivanov
> https://www.kot-begemot.co.uk/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> linux-um@lists.infradead.org
> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-um
>