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From: Alex Ghiti <alex@ghiti.fr>
To: Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@kernel.crashing.org>,
	Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@dabbelt.com>
Cc: mpe@ellerman.id.au, paulus@samba.org,
	Paul Walmsley <paul.walmsley@sifive.com>,
	aou@eecs.berkeley.edu, Anup Patel <Anup.Patel@wdc.com>,
	Atish Patra <Atish.Patra@wdc.com>,
	zong.li@sifive.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org,
	linux-mm@kvack.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] riscv: Move kernel mapping to vmalloc zone
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 01:21:50 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <cade70e2-0179-2650-41c5-036679aaf30c@ghiti.fr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <54af168083aee9dbda1b531227521a26b77ba2c8.camel@kernel.crashing.org>

Hi Benjamin,

Le 7/21/20 à 7:11 PM, Benjamin Herrenschmidt a écrit :
> On Tue, 2020-07-21 at 14:36 -0400, Alex Ghiti wrote:
>>>> I guess I don't understand why this is necessary at all.
>>>> Specifically: why
>>>> can't we just relocate the kernel within the linear map?  That would
>>>> let the
>>>> bootloader put the kernel wherever it wants, modulo the physical
>>>> memory size we
>>>> support.  We'd need to handle the regions that are coupled to the
>>>> kernel's
>>>> execution address, but we could just put them in an explicit memory
>>>> region
>>>> which is what we should probably be doing anyway.
>>>
>>> Virtual relocation in the linear mapping requires to move the kernel
>>> physically too. Zong implemented this physical move in its KASLR RFC
>>> patchset, which is cumbersome since finding an available physical spot
>>> is harder than just selecting a virtual range in the vmalloc range.
>>>
>>> In addition, having the kernel mapping in the linear mapping prevents
>>> the use of hugepage for the linear mapping resulting in performance loss
>>> (at least for the GB that encompasses the kernel).
>>>
>>> Why do you find this "ugly" ? The vmalloc region is just a bunch of
>>> available virtual addresses to whatever purpose we want, and as noted by
>>> Zong, arm64 uses the same scheme.
> 
> I don't get it :-)
> 
> At least on powerpc we move the kernel in the linear mapping and it
> works fine with huge pages, what is your problem there ? You rely on
> punching small-page size holes in there ?
> 

ARCH_HAS_STRICT_KERNEL_RWX prevents the use of a hugepage for the kernel 
mapping in the direct mapping as it sets different permissions to 
different part of the kernel (data, text..etc).


> At least in the old days, there were a number of assumptions that
> the kernel text/data/bss resides in the linear mapping.
> 
> If you change that you need to ensure that it's still physically
> contiguous and you'll have to tweak __va and __pa, which might induce
> extra overhead.
> 

Yes that's done in this patch and indeed there is an overhead to those 
functions.

> Cheers,
> Ben.
>   
> 

Thanks,

Alex

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Alex Ghiti <alex@ghiti.fr>
To: Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@kernel.crashing.org>,
	Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@dabbelt.com>
Cc: aou@eecs.berkeley.edu, linux-mm@kvack.org, mpe@ellerman.id.au,
	Anup Patel <Anup.Patel@wdc.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Atish Patra <Atish.Patra@wdc.com>,
	paulus@samba.org, zong.li@sifive.com,
	Paul Walmsley <paul.walmsley@sifive.com>,
	linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] riscv: Move kernel mapping to vmalloc zone
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 01:21:50 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <cade70e2-0179-2650-41c5-036679aaf30c@ghiti.fr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <54af168083aee9dbda1b531227521a26b77ba2c8.camel@kernel.crashing.org>

Hi Benjamin,

Le 7/21/20 à 7:11 PM, Benjamin Herrenschmidt a écrit :
> On Tue, 2020-07-21 at 14:36 -0400, Alex Ghiti wrote:
>>>> I guess I don't understand why this is necessary at all.
>>>> Specifically: why
>>>> can't we just relocate the kernel within the linear map?  That would
>>>> let the
>>>> bootloader put the kernel wherever it wants, modulo the physical
>>>> memory size we
>>>> support.  We'd need to handle the regions that are coupled to the
>>>> kernel's
>>>> execution address, but we could just put them in an explicit memory
>>>> region
>>>> which is what we should probably be doing anyway.
>>>
>>> Virtual relocation in the linear mapping requires to move the kernel
>>> physically too. Zong implemented this physical move in its KASLR RFC
>>> patchset, which is cumbersome since finding an available physical spot
>>> is harder than just selecting a virtual range in the vmalloc range.
>>>
>>> In addition, having the kernel mapping in the linear mapping prevents
>>> the use of hugepage for the linear mapping resulting in performance loss
>>> (at least for the GB that encompasses the kernel).
>>>
>>> Why do you find this "ugly" ? The vmalloc region is just a bunch of
>>> available virtual addresses to whatever purpose we want, and as noted by
>>> Zong, arm64 uses the same scheme.
> 
> I don't get it :-)
> 
> At least on powerpc we move the kernel in the linear mapping and it
> works fine with huge pages, what is your problem there ? You rely on
> punching small-page size holes in there ?
> 

ARCH_HAS_STRICT_KERNEL_RWX prevents the use of a hugepage for the kernel 
mapping in the direct mapping as it sets different permissions to 
different part of the kernel (data, text..etc).


> At least in the old days, there were a number of assumptions that
> the kernel text/data/bss resides in the linear mapping.
> 
> If you change that you need to ensure that it's still physically
> contiguous and you'll have to tweak __va and __pa, which might induce
> extra overhead.
> 

Yes that's done in this patch and indeed there is an overhead to those 
functions.

> Cheers,
> Ben.
>   
> 

Thanks,

Alex

_______________________________________________
linux-riscv mailing list
linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-riscv

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Alex Ghiti <alex@ghiti.fr>
To: Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@kernel.crashing.org>,
	Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@dabbelt.com>
Cc: aou@eecs.berkeley.edu, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	Anup Patel <Anup.Patel@wdc.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Atish Patra <Atish.Patra@wdc.com>,
	paulus@samba.org, zong.li@sifive.com,
	Paul Walmsley <paul.walmsley@sifive.com>,
	linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] riscv: Move kernel mapping to vmalloc zone
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 01:21:50 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <cade70e2-0179-2650-41c5-036679aaf30c@ghiti.fr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <54af168083aee9dbda1b531227521a26b77ba2c8.camel@kernel.crashing.org>

Hi Benjamin,

Le 7/21/20 à 7:11 PM, Benjamin Herrenschmidt a écrit :
> On Tue, 2020-07-21 at 14:36 -0400, Alex Ghiti wrote:
>>>> I guess I don't understand why this is necessary at all.
>>>> Specifically: why
>>>> can't we just relocate the kernel within the linear map?  That would
>>>> let the
>>>> bootloader put the kernel wherever it wants, modulo the physical
>>>> memory size we
>>>> support.  We'd need to handle the regions that are coupled to the
>>>> kernel's
>>>> execution address, but we could just put them in an explicit memory
>>>> region
>>>> which is what we should probably be doing anyway.
>>>
>>> Virtual relocation in the linear mapping requires to move the kernel
>>> physically too. Zong implemented this physical move in its KASLR RFC
>>> patchset, which is cumbersome since finding an available physical spot
>>> is harder than just selecting a virtual range in the vmalloc range.
>>>
>>> In addition, having the kernel mapping in the linear mapping prevents
>>> the use of hugepage for the linear mapping resulting in performance loss
>>> (at least for the GB that encompasses the kernel).
>>>
>>> Why do you find this "ugly" ? The vmalloc region is just a bunch of
>>> available virtual addresses to whatever purpose we want, and as noted by
>>> Zong, arm64 uses the same scheme.
> 
> I don't get it :-)
> 
> At least on powerpc we move the kernel in the linear mapping and it
> works fine with huge pages, what is your problem there ? You rely on
> punching small-page size holes in there ?
> 

ARCH_HAS_STRICT_KERNEL_RWX prevents the use of a hugepage for the kernel 
mapping in the direct mapping as it sets different permissions to 
different part of the kernel (data, text..etc).


> At least in the old days, there were a number of assumptions that
> the kernel text/data/bss resides in the linear mapping.
> 
> If you change that you need to ensure that it's still physically
> contiguous and you'll have to tweak __va and __pa, which might induce
> extra overhead.
> 

Yes that's done in this patch and indeed there is an overhead to those 
functions.

> Cheers,
> Ben.
>   
> 

Thanks,

Alex

  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-07-23  5:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 89+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-06-07  7:59 [PATCH v5 0/4] vmalloc kernel mapping and relocatable kernel Alexandre Ghiti
2020-06-07  7:59 ` [PATCH v5 1/4] riscv: Move kernel mapping to vmalloc zone Alexandre Ghiti
2020-06-11 21:34   ` Atish Patra
2020-06-11 21:34     ` Atish Patra
2020-06-11 21:34     ` Atish Patra
2020-06-12 12:30     ` Alex Ghiti
2020-06-12 12:30       ` Alex Ghiti
2020-06-12 12:30       ` Alex Ghiti
2020-07-09  5:05   ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-09  5:05     ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-09  5:05     ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-09  8:15     ` Zong Li
2020-07-09  8:15       ` Zong Li
2020-07-09  8:15       ` Zong Li
2020-07-09 11:11     ` Alex Ghiti
2020-07-09 11:11       ` Alex Ghiti
2020-07-09 11:11       ` Alex Ghiti
2020-07-21 18:36       ` Alex Ghiti
2020-07-21 18:36         ` Alex Ghiti
2020-07-21 18:36         ` Alex Ghiti
2020-07-21 19:05         ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-21 19:05           ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-21 19:05           ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-21 23:12           ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2020-07-21 23:12             ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2020-07-21 23:12             ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2020-07-21 23:48             ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-21 23:48               ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-21 23:48               ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-22  2:21               ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2020-07-22  2:21                 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2020-07-22  2:21                 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2020-07-22  4:50                 ` Michael Ellerman
2020-07-22  4:50                   ` Michael Ellerman
2020-07-22  4:50                   ` Michael Ellerman
2020-07-22  5:46                   ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-22  5:46                     ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-22  5:46                     ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-22  9:43           ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-07-22  9:43             ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-07-22  9:43             ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-07-22  9:43             ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-07-22 19:52             ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-22 19:52               ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-22 19:52               ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-22 20:22               ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-07-22 20:22                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-07-22 20:22                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-07-22 20:22                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-07-22 21:05                 ` Atish Patra
2020-07-22 21:05                   ` Atish Patra
2020-07-22 21:05                   ` Atish Patra
2020-07-22 21:05                   ` Atish Patra
2020-07-24  7:20                   ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-07-24  7:20                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-07-24  7:20                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-07-24  7:20                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-07-23  5:32           ` Alex Ghiti
2020-07-23  5:32             ` Alex Ghiti
2020-07-23  5:32             ` Alex Ghiti
2020-07-21 23:11         ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2020-07-21 23:11           ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2020-07-21 23:11           ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2020-07-21 23:36           ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-21 23:36             ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-21 23:36             ` Palmer Dabbelt
2020-07-23  5:36             ` Alex Ghiti
2020-07-23  5:36               ` Alex Ghiti
2020-07-23  5:36               ` Alex Ghiti
2020-07-23  5:21           ` Alex Ghiti [this message]
2020-07-23  5:21             ` Alex Ghiti
2020-07-23  5:21             ` Alex Ghiti
2020-07-23 22:33             ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2020-07-23 22:33               ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2020-07-23 22:33               ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2020-07-24  8:14               ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-07-24  8:14                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-07-24  8:14                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-07-24  8:14                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2020-06-07  7:59 ` [PATCH v5 2/4] riscv: Introduce CONFIG_RELOCATABLE Alexandre Ghiti
2020-06-07  7:59   ` Alexandre Ghiti
2020-06-10 14:10   ` Jerome Forissier
2020-06-11 19:43     ` Alex Ghiti
2020-06-07  7:59 ` [PATCH v5 3/4] powerpc: Move script to check relocations at compile time in scripts/ Alexandre Ghiti
2020-06-07  7:59   ` Alexandre Ghiti
2020-06-07  7:59 ` [PATCH v5 4/4] riscv: Check relocations at compile time Alexandre Ghiti
2020-06-07  7:59   ` Alexandre Ghiti
2020-07-08  4:21 ` [PATCH v5 0/4] vmalloc kernel mapping and relocatable kernel Alex Ghiti
2020-07-08  4:21   ` Alex Ghiti

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