[oe-commits] org.oe.dev apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.

[oe-commits] org.oe.dev apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.

[Paul Sokolovsky]

How workarounds for specific buggy wifi cards relate to a generic APM
daemon? Or from other side, why everyone should endure more latency
during suspend/resume, with that latency already being >1s, because 5%
or less of those "everyone" use buggy cards?

Please move this workaround to a packages of the buggy driver, or to a
separate package which is RDEPEND'ed by buggy driver. See
bluez-dtl1-workaround_1.0.bb for similar conversion performed.



This is a forwarded message
From: Laibsch commit <openembedded-commits@lists.openembedded.org>
To: openembedded-commits@lists.openembedded.org
Date: Wednesday, January 16, 2008, 3:03:20 PM
Subject: [oe-commits] org.oe.dev apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.

===8<==============Original message text===============
apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.

Author: Laibsch@openembedded.org
Branch: org.openembedded.dev
Revision: 1b0acc215822890043b4d815ac222a6c2e77a15b
ViewMTN: http://monotone.openembedded.org/revision/info/1b0acc215822890043b4d815ac222a6c2e77a15b
Files:
1
packages/apmd/apmd-3.2.2/90-wifi-off
packages/apmd/apmd_3.2.2.bb
Diffs:

#
# mt diff -rad00788d9e2f2f3b509d80f534463b293eecccb5 -r1b0acc215822890043b4d815ac222a6c2e77a15b
#
# 
# 
# add_file "packages/apmd/apmd-3.2.2/90-wifi-off"
#  content [dd2b60322fc6d9136495d7c41f7c1f9e73ed8937]
# 
# patch "packages/apmd/apmd_3.2.2.bb"
#  from [468e386d67d32dcf673ffd462940acdf206daeee]
#    to [7e1be5e159f4f8ae062efeda347fda7056e83fc8]
# 
============================================================
--- packages/apmd/apmd-3.2.2/90-wifi-off        dd2b60322fc6d9136495d7c41f7c1f9e73ed8937
+++ packages/apmd/apmd-3.2.2/90-wifi-off        dd2b60322fc6d9136495d7c41f7c1f9e73ed8937
@@ -0,0 +1,12 @@
+#!/bin/sh
+#Author: Rolf Leggewie
+#
+# turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume
+
+wifislot = `pccardctl ls|egrep '(hostap|orinoco)'|cut -f 2 -d " "`
+if test $wifislot
+then
+  for slot in $wifislot; do
+    pccardctl eject $wifislot
+  done
+fi
============================================================
--- packages/apmd/apmd_3.2.2.bb	468e386d67d32dcf673ffd462940acdf206daeee
+++ packages/apmd/apmd_3.2.2.bb	7e1be5e159f4f8ae062efeda347fda7056e83fc8
@@ -1,9 +1,9 @@ LICENSE = "GPL"
 DESCRIPTION = "Set of tools for managing notebook power consumption."
 SECTION = "base"
 PRIORITY = "required"
 DEPENDS = "libtool-cross"
 LICENSE = "GPL"
-PR = "r8"
+PR = "r9"
 
 SRC_URI = "${DEBIAN_MIRROR}/main/a/apmd/apmd_${PV}.orig.tar.gz \
            file://debian.patch;patch=1 \
@@ -12,6 +12,7 @@ SRC_URI = "${DEBIAN_MIRROR}/main/a/apmd/
           file://unlinux.patch;patch=1 \
            file://init \
            file://default \
+           file://90-wifi-off \
            file://apmd_proxy \
            file://apmd_proxy.conf"
 
@@ -49,6 +50,7 @@ do_install() {
 
        install -m 4755 ${S}/.libs/apm ${D}${bindir}/apm
        install -m 0755 ${S}/.libs/apmd ${D}${sbindir}/apmd
+       install -m 0755 ${WORKDIR}/90-wifi-off ${D}${sysconfdir}/apm/suspend.d
        install -m 0755 ${WORKDIR}/apmd_proxy ${D}${sysconfdir}/apm/
        install -m 0644 ${WORKDIR}/apmd_proxy.conf ${D}${datadir}/apmd/
        install -m 0644 ${WORKDIR}/default ${D}${sysconfdir}/default/apmd



_______________________________________________
Openembedded-commits mailing list
Openembedded-commits@lists.openembedded.org
http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-commits

===8<===========End of original message text===========



-- 
Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:pmiscml@gmail.com

Bug

[ohviey1]

I work with ubutnu the last version.
I have a big problem when a search to load filesystem into an ARM with 
ethernet who works at 10 Mb/s
The problem is thet:


IP-Config: 
Complete:                                                           
      device=eth0, addr=10.193.101.129, mask=255.255.255.0, 
gw=10.193.101.1,   
     host=10.193.101.129, domain=, 
nis-domain=(none),                          
     bootserver=10.193.101.100, rootserver=10.193.101.100, 
rootpath=           
Looking up port of RPC 100003/2 on 
10.193.101.100                              
Looking up port of RPC 100005/1 on 
10.193.101.100                              
w1_master_driver w1_bus_master1: Family 9 for 09.000003f08c27.80 is not 
registe.
VFS: Mounted root (nfs 
filesystem).                                            
Freeing init memory: 
200K                                                      
nfs: server 10.193.101.100 not responding, still 
trying                        
nfs: server 10.193.101.100 not responding, still 
trying                        

Have you same idea how can reslve thet i searched on google possible is 
a bug?

Re: [oe-commits] org.oe.dev apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.

[Michael 'Mickey' Lauer]

Paul Sokolovsky wrote:
> How workarounds for specific buggy wifi cards relate to a generic APM
> daemon? Or from other side, why everyone should endure more latency
> during suspend/resume, with that latency already being >1s, because 5%
> or less of those "everyone" use buggy cards?

> Please move this workaround to a packages of the buggy driver, or to a
> separate package which is RDEPEND'ed by buggy driver. See
> bluez-dtl1-workaround_1.0.bb for similar conversion performed.

I agree. The issue to fix is worthwile, but I would prefer seperate
packaging as well.

Regards,

:M:

-- 
Dr. Michael 'Mickey' Lauer | IT-Freelancer | http://www.vanille-media.de

Re: [oe-commits] org.oe.dev apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.

[Koen Kooi]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Paul Sokolovsky schreef:
| How workarounds for specific buggy wifi cards relate to a generic APM
| daemon? Or from other side, why everyone should endure more latency
| during suspend/resume, with that latency already being >1s, because 5%
| or less of those "everyone" use buggy cards?
|
| Please move this workaround to a packages of the buggy driver, or to a
| separate package which is RDEPEND'ed by buggy driver. See
| bluez-dtl1-workaround_1.0.bb for similar conversion performed.

IIRC this is a workaround for cards that have their firmware in RAM
(i.e. almost all hostap cards). They loose their firmware on suspend and
our scripts don't reload it. This is actually a bug in our firmware
loading scripts and I think this solution is acceptable medium-term, but
~ longterm we should fix our firmware loading scripts.

regards,

Koen



| This is a forwarded message
| From: Laibsch commit <openembedded-commits@lists.openembedded.org>
| To: openembedded-commits@lists.openembedded.org
| Date: Wednesday, January 16, 2008, 3:03:20 PM
| Subject: [oe-commits] org.oe.dev apm: turn off wifi cards before
suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.
|
| ===8<==============Original message text===============
| apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded
upon resume. closes 3664.
|
| Author: Laibsch@openembedded.org
| Branch: org.openembedded.dev
| Revision: 1b0acc215822890043b4d815ac222a6c2e77a15b
| ViewMTN:
http://monotone.openembedded.org/revision/info/1b0acc215822890043b4d815ac222a6c2e77a15b
| Files:
| 1
| packages/apmd/apmd-3.2.2/90-wifi-off
| packages/apmd/apmd_3.2.2.bb
| Diffs:
|
| #
| # mt diff -rad00788d9e2f2f3b509d80f534463b293eecccb5
- -r1b0acc215822890043b4d815ac222a6c2e77a15b
| #
| #
| #
| # add_file "packages/apmd/apmd-3.2.2/90-wifi-off"
| #  content [dd2b60322fc6d9136495d7c41f7c1f9e73ed8937]
| #
| # patch "packages/apmd/apmd_3.2.2.bb"
| #  from [468e386d67d32dcf673ffd462940acdf206daeee]
| #    to [7e1be5e159f4f8ae062efeda347fda7056e83fc8]
| #
| ============================================================
| --- packages/apmd/apmd-3.2.2/90-wifi-off
dd2b60322fc6d9136495d7c41f7c1f9e73ed8937
| +++ packages/apmd/apmd-3.2.2/90-wifi-off
dd2b60322fc6d9136495d7c41f7c1f9e73ed8937
| @@ -0,0 +1,12 @@
| +#!/bin/sh
| +#Author: Rolf Leggewie
| +#
| +# turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon
resume
| +
| +wifislot = `pccardctl ls|egrep '(hostap|orinoco)'|cut -f 2 -d " "`
| +if test $wifislot
| +then
| +  for slot in $wifislot; do
| +    pccardctl eject $wifislot
| +  done
| +fi
| ============================================================
| --- packages/apmd/apmd_3.2.2.bb	468e386d67d32dcf673ffd462940acdf206daeee
| +++ packages/apmd/apmd_3.2.2.bb	7e1be5e159f4f8ae062efeda347fda7056e83fc8
| @@ -1,9 +1,9 @@ LICENSE = "GPL"
|  DESCRIPTION = "Set of tools for managing notebook power consumption."
|  SECTION = "base"
|  PRIORITY = "required"
|  DEPENDS = "libtool-cross"
|  LICENSE = "GPL"
| -PR = "r8"
| +PR = "r9"
|
|  SRC_URI = "${DEBIAN_MIRROR}/main/a/apmd/apmd_${PV}.orig.tar.gz \
|             file://debian.patch;patch=1 \
| @@ -12,6 +12,7 @@ SRC_URI = "${DEBIAN_MIRROR}/main/a/apmd/
|            file://unlinux.patch;patch=1 \
|             file://init \
|             file://default \
| +           file://90-wifi-off \
|             file://apmd_proxy \
|             file://apmd_proxy.conf"
|
| @@ -49,6 +50,7 @@ do_install() {
|
|         install -m 4755 ${S}/.libs/apm ${D}${bindir}/apm
|         install -m 0755 ${S}/.libs/apmd ${D}${sbindir}/apmd
| +       install -m 0755 ${WORKDIR}/90-wifi-off
${D}${sysconfdir}/apm/suspend.d
|         install -m 0755 ${WORKDIR}/apmd_proxy ${D}${sysconfdir}/apm/
|         install -m 0644 ${WORKDIR}/apmd_proxy.conf ${D}${datadir}/apmd/
|         install -m 0644 ${WORKDIR}/default ${D}${sysconfdir}/default/apmd
|
|
|
| _______________________________________________
| Openembedded-commits mailing list
| Openembedded-commits@lists.openembedded.org
| http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-commits
|
| ===8<===========End of original message text===========
|
|
|


- --
koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl will go go away in december 2007, please
use k.kooi@student.utwente.nl instead.

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Re: [oe-commits] org.oe.dev apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.

[Paul Sokolovsky]

Hello Koen,

Thursday, January 17, 2008, 2:22:14 PM, you wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1

> Paul Sokolovsky schreef:
> | How workarounds for specific buggy wifi cards relate to a generic APM
> | daemon? Or from other side, why everyone should endure more latency
> | during suspend/resume, with that latency already being >1s, because 5%
> | or less of those "everyone" use buggy cards?
> |
> | Please move this workaround to a packages of the buggy driver, or to a
> | separate package which is RDEPEND'ed by buggy driver. See
> | bluez-dtl1-workaround_1.0.bb for similar conversion performed.

> IIRC this is a workaround for cards that have their firmware in RAM
> (i.e. almost all hostap cards). They loose their firmware on suspend and
> our scripts don't reload it. This is actually a bug in our firmware
> loading scripts and I think this solution is acceptable medium-term, but
> ~ longterm we should fix our firmware loading scripts.

  Ok, no problem. There're lots of broken hardware and drivers around,
and of course they need to be supported still, and right now. The question
is how that is done - if it comes mixed into one big mess, we won't have
nice working system at all. And as someone who makes small steps towards
clearing this stuff (all the fixes I already did to udev and apmd to
get rid of device-specific hacks in them), I don't appreciate someone
moving in the opposite direction just to solve on-spot problem. OE is
powerful environment allowing to solve make focused, maintainable and
reusable changes - even if they're workarounds, and people should
learn to use them.


> regards,

> Koen

[]



-- 
Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:pmiscml@gmail.com

Re: [oe-commits] org.oe.dev apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.

[Rolf Leggewie]

Paul,

thank you for pointing out the problem and a template solution towards
the end of your initial rant as well.  In fact I am already working on
moving the mid-term fix into a separate package to provide an even less
intrusive mid-term fix -> http://oz.leggewie.org/wip/wifi-suspend.patch

But...

Paul Sokolovsky schrieb:
> and of course they need to be supported still, and right now. The question
> is how that is done - if it comes mixed into one big mess
                                                       ^^^^
> I don't appreciate someone moving in the opposite direction just to solve on-spot problem. OE is
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> powerful environment allowing to solve make focused, maintainable and
> reusable changes - even if they're workarounds, and people should
> learn to use them.

And I don't appreciate after I have

* fixed a real usability issue which likely strongly influences the
  perception of OE-derived distros
* consulted with a *LOT* of people on IRC and in the bug tracker over
  several days
* have put quite some time into finding an acceptable solution for
  everyone

that someone comes around who had previously been quiet on this and then
calls my work a "mess" and generally finds very unappreciative words for
what I've done and the time I've spent.

Mickey's comment

# I agree. The issue to fix is worthwile, but I would prefer seperate
# packaging as well.

sounds quite different, don't you agree?  FOSS is an incremental process.

I am willing to get this not only right for me, but to everyone's
satisfaction.  But I kindly want to ask you to consider that it is not
only what you say but also how you say it.

PS: I don't intend to and hope I did not start another flame war, but
this is important to me.

Re: [oe-commits] org.oe.dev apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.

[Mike (mwester)]

"Rolf Leggewie" <no2spam@nospam.arcornews.de> writes:
[snip]
> that someone comes around who had previously been quiet on this and then
> calls my work a "mess" and generally finds very unappreciative words for
> what I've done and the time I've spent.
>
> Mickey's comment
>
> # I agree. The issue to fix is worthwile, but I would prefer seperate
> # packaging as well.
>
> sounds quite different, don't you agree?  FOSS is an incremental process.
>
> I am willing to get this not only right for me, but to everyone's
> satisfaction.  But I kindly want to ask you to consider that it is not
> only what you say but also how you say it.
>
> PS: I don't intend to and hope I did not start another flame war, but
> this is important to me.

Actually, this is important to me as well.  I've deliberately distanced 
myself from these discussions on the mailing lists, but I've also withheld a 
number of commits for *EXACTLY* the reasons pointed out by Rolf.

My last commit was the famous 2.6.23 ixp4xx kernel recipe - I'm quite 
certain everyone remembers that.  It too turned into what I've been seeing 
lately on this list (and on the angstrom list).  Mickey's comment on this 
thread is the sort of helpful, constructive criticism that will result in 
people becoming better OE developers.  The comments by some others, however, 
are the sort of comments that just result in me maintaining my own personal 
set of changes to OE -- it's just easier on my blood-pressure to deal with 
my own private overlay than to endure the guantlet of hyper-critical, 
condescending, superiority-laden emails that have characterized some of the 
past responses to my (and other's) commits.

I doubt that my contributions are of particular interest to the general 
population, but I hardly suspect that I'm alone in this -- which makes it 
rather probable that OE is missing some other, really valuable, 
contributions from those who have just "walked away" because they fear their 
bitbake recipes do not meet the level of god-like perfection demanded by a 
certain small-but-very-vocal group of developers.

C'mon folks -- teach me.  Don't beat me.


JMO.  That and 10 USD will get you a cup of coffee.

Mike (mwester)

Re: [oe-commits] org.oe.dev apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.

[Paul Sokolovsky]

Hello Rolf,

Thursday, January 17, 2008, 4:34:41 PM, you wrote:

> Paul,

> thank you for pointing out the problem and a template solution towards
> the end of your initial rant as well.  In fact I am already working on

  Thanks for acting on that.

> moving the mid-term fix into a separate package to provide an even less
> intrusive mid-term fix ->
> http://oz.leggewie.org/wip/wifi-suspend.patch



> But...

> Paul Sokolovsky schrieb:
>> and of course they need to be supported still, and right now. The question
>> is how that is done - if it comes mixed into one big mess
>                                                        ^^^^
>> I don't appreciate someone moving in the opposite direction just to solve on-spot problem. OE is
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> powerful environment allowing to solve make focused, maintainable and
>> reusable changes - even if they're workarounds, and people should
>> learn to use them.

> And I don't appreciate after I have

> * fixed a real usability issue which likely strongly influences the
>   perception of OE-derived distros
> * consulted with a *LOT* of people on IRC and in the bug tracker over
>   several days
> * have put quite some time into finding an acceptable solution for
>   everyone

> that someone comes around who had previously been quiet on this and then
> calls my work a "mess" and generally finds very unappreciative words for
> what I've done and the time I've spent.

  Oh, do we need a bit of affirmative action here again? ;-) Ok, so
"mess" is not your work, it's what core layer of OE runtime is, to the large
extent. Being with OE for quite some time, I know such
problem areas, and try to work towards resolving them. That's hard to
do on one's own, so I humbly expects that other experienced OE
developers to share such approach, instead of trying to apply pain-of-day
patches, just increasing existing mess.

 As for IRC, unfortunately, I don't have much time to be on it
lately, but I try to be on MLs. So, don't get too hot about receiving
*one more* comment if you already received them a lot. OE is big system,
and noone can know and be up to date with all its areas.

> Mickey's comment

> # I agree. The issue to fix is worthwile, but I would prefer seperate
> # packaging as well.

> sounds quite different, don't you agree?

  Nope, I don't ;-). I don't see anything special about communication
which goes your way, no matter who's the other side, sorry ;-).

> FOSS is an incremental process.

> I am willing to get this not only right for me, but to everyone's
> satisfaction.

  Great, so I just provide my comments on the matter. You may wonder
how it gets often that you and I get into communication (though I of
course give comments to other people too). But even that should be
rather clear - because we both care about almost the same area
regarding OE, albeit with different approaches and plans. In this
regard, I appreciate your review, suggestions, and comments!

> But I kindly want to ask you to consider that it is not
> only what you say but also how you say it.

> PS: I don't intend to and hope I did not start another flame war, but
> this is important to me.


  Just in case, there's still personal mail around...


-- 
Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:pmiscml@gmail.com

Re: [oe-commits] org.oe.dev apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.

[Paul Sokolovsky]

Hello Mike,

Thursday, January 17, 2008, 5:09:52 PM, you wrote:

[]

> Actually, this is important to me as well.  I've deliberately distanced
> myself from these discussions on the mailing lists, but I've also withheld a
> number of commits for *EXACTLY* the reasons pointed out by Rolf.

> My last commit was the famous 2.6.23 ixp4xx kernel recipe - I'm quite 
> certain everyone remembers that.  It too turned into what I've been seeing
> lately on this list (and on the angstrom list).  Mickey's comment on this
> thread is the sort of helpful, constructive criticism that will result in
> people becoming better OE developers.  The comments by some others, however,
> are the sort of comments that just result in me maintaining my own personal
> set of changes to OE -- it's just easier on my blood-pressure to deal with
> my own private overlay than to endure the guantlet of hyper-critical, 
> condescending, superiority-laden emails that have characterized some of the
> past responses to my (and other's) commits.

> I doubt that my contributions are of particular interest to the general
> population, but I hardly suspect that I'm alone in this -- which makes it
> rather probable that OE is missing some other, really valuable, 
> contributions from those who have just "walked away" because they fear their
> bitbake recipes do not meet the level of god-like perfection demanded by a
> certain small-but-very-vocal group of developers.

> C'mon folks -- teach me.  Don't beat me.

  IMHO, the problem here is not how to make it more comfortable for
individual developers to contribute to OE - that's big question in
itself, but answers to it are mostly bound to general properties of
OpenSource projects (the bigger they become, the steeper participation
curve, unfortunately ;-( ).

  IMHO, the talk is about how to be on the same direction, and even
steering, where OE goes. There're many meta-level changes are being
done to OE, and it's hard for everyone to be current with all of them.
Yet even more important meta-changes cannot be done literally for
years (packages staging for example), because of lack participation
and inertness of developers.

  With all that in mind, IMHO, it's not too productive to keep silent
instead of participating in communication, and actual meta-work. And
per well-known rules of nature, law of compensation comes into play -
if someone keeps silent, someone has to be more vocal; if someone
thinks and finds that it's easiser to do less that otherwise would
be possible, someone else thinks and finds that more has to be done.



> JMO.  That and 10 USD will get you a cup of coffee.

> Mike (mwester)


-- 
Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:pmiscml@gmail.com

Re: [oe-commits] org.oe.dev apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.

[Mike (mwester)]

"Paul Sokolovsky" <pmiscml@gmail.com> writes:
[snip]
>  IMHO, the problem here is not how to make it more comfortable for
> individual developers to contribute to OE - that's big question in
> itself, but answers to it are mostly bound to general properties of
> OpenSource projects (the bigger they become, the steeper participation
> curve, unfortunately ;-( ).

No. Quite wrong, in fact.  The problem is not inherent in a project just 
because the project has a large scope.  Civility and courtesy can be 
maintained, regardless of size of project.  Nobody is questioning that large 
projects have special issues and challenges; rather the issue is how you 
chose to phrase your response to the commit in this case, compared to how it 
might have been presented in a more positive and constructive way.

>  IMHO, the talk is about how to be on the same direction, and even
> steering, where OE goes. There're many meta-level changes are being
> done to OE, and it's hard for everyone to be current with all of them.
> Yet even more important meta-changes cannot be done literally for
> years (packages staging for example), because of lack participation
> and inertness of developers.

Irrelevant.  This is true, but this has nothing whatever to do with respect 
and common courtesy.

>  With all that in mind, IMHO, it's not too productive to keep silent
> instead of participating in communication, and actual meta-work. And
> per well-known rules of nature, law of compensation comes into play -
> if someone keeps silent, someone has to be more vocal; if someone
> thinks and finds that it's easiser to do less that otherwise would
> be possible, someone else thinks and finds that more has to be done.

Which is all the more reason for the OE community to make the effort to (as 
you put it) "make it more comfortable...to contribute to OE".  I applaud the 
OE developers who are civil, respectful, and constructive -- I think those 
contributors are doing more to ensuring the long-term success of the project 
than are those who may (arguably) be correct but silence others by the 
manner in which they choose to correct.

Mike (mwester) 

Re: [oe-commits] org.oe.dev apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.

[Rolf Leggewie]

Paul Sokolovsky schrieb:
>> Mickey's comment
> 
>> # I agree. The issue to fix is worthwile, but I would prefer seperate
>> # packaging as well.
> 
>> sounds quite different, don't you agree?
> 
>   Nope, I don't ;-).

OK, everyone is entitled to their opinion, fair enough.

I am sure you will then afford me the liberty to completely ignore any
and all comments you make which I deem to be in inappropriate style, no
matter how technically valid.  I have seen enough of it, I don't want it
anymore, I will block it out from my perception.

IOW, next time it will be *you* doing
http://oz.leggewie.org/wip/wifi-suspend.patch  Fair enough, I'd say.

Re: [oe-commits] org.oe.dev apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.

[Rolf Leggewie]

Rolf Leggewie schrieb:
> http://oz.leggewie.org/wip/wifi-suspend.patch

committed with some more minor improvements (most notable being
RRECOMMENDS instead of RDEPENDS; thanks mickey) as
157be493d58806df1aa6f89ba3922778bf6d6302

Re: [oe-commits] org.oe.dev apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.

[Paul Sokolovsky]

Hello Rolf,

Friday, January 18, 2008, 7:33:30 PM, you wrote:

> Paul Sokolovsky schrieb:
>>> Mickey's comment
>> 
>>> # I agree. The issue to fix is worthwile, but I would prefer seperate
>>> # packaging as well.
>> 
>>> sounds quite different, don't you agree?
>> 
>>   Nope, I don't ;-).

> OK, everyone is entitled to their opinion, fair enough.

> I am sure you will then afford me the liberty to completely ignore any
> and all comments you make which I deem to be in inappropriate style, no
> matter how technically valid.  I have seen enough of it, I don't want it
> anymore, I will block it out from my perception.

  I recommend you to stop declaring attitudes of ignore and alienation
towards OE community (re: http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-devel/2007-December/003753.html)
and its individual members (which you do almost every time somebody
don't agree with what you do).

  If you have something with the tone of my messages, ignoring it is
what I myself recommend you to do, especially if you tend to perceive
it on the negative side. But I don't recommend you to ignore technical
content of anybody's comments - you had your commits reverted multiple
times, and it's time to learn what's wrong.

> IOW, next time it will be *you* doing
> http://oz.leggewie.org/wip/wifi-suspend.patch  Fair enough, I'd say.

  And I'm glad you're now getting idea on that. Except that there
shouldn't be "you" or "me". Instead, anytime you're not sure if some
change is done the best way and if it doesn't regress something (and
please always give anyone - including yourself - power of doubt),
please consult with wider community. As was told many times already,
IRC is a bad place for RFCs. It's oftentimes not easy to decide if
some change requires RFC or not, so being conservative and posting an
RFC still is a good plan. Otherwise, be prepared that your change may
break something you couldn't even think (OE is a complex system), so
you may be asked to re-do your solution, or have it reverted until you
come up with better plan. Finally, don't haste with either applying
patches without RFCing them wide enough, or with applying them without
letting people some time to review RFC.

  Those were suggestions I myself used to get, and now hopefully trying
to follow. I'm sorry if you hear them not the first time - I would
think that is the case actually. I'm even more sorry if you didn't
have chance to see them before - then it for sure was mistake to start
commenting on your commit with technical matters, I should have
started with that instead.

[]

-- 
Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:pmiscml@gmail.com

Re: [oe-commits] org.oe.dev apm: turn off wifi cards before suspend so they are fully reloaded upon resume. closes 3664.

[Rolf Leggewie]

Paul,

I really wonder what your complaint is.  I even wrote the RFC you now so
lenthy ponder upon.  The commit was made 5 days later after input from
*many* people on IRC, the ml and bugzilla.  Sorry you were late to the
party, but so what?  Again, FOSS is incremental!  Please stop insulting
and blaming me (or Sonkei, wtf was that about??).  I'd really like to
see a little bit of introspection on your end after numerous people have
now told you in this thread and elsewhere that they want respectful and
civilized exchange.  It is very sad to see you brushing it aside all the
time or even ridiculing it as "affimative action" and the "respect mafia".

JFTR, I have always and will continue to exchange opinion and knowledge
with those kind enough to share in a civilized style and good manner.

But, yes, you should still expect

a) .dev to be broken randomly
b) me to make a good effort in good faith
c) me ignoring any and all future communication from you or anybody else
   when it shows a lack of even the most rudimentary level of respect

Regards

Ro - EOD - lf