[lm-sensors] Interpreting lm-sensors's output

[lm-sensors] Interpreting lm-sensors's output

[Stefan Monnier]

I just got a new fanless mini-ITX board and am concerned about
its temperature.
lm-sensors only finds two temperature sensors on this board:

   % sensors
   radeon-pci-0008
   Adapter: PCI adapter
   temp1:        +51.0°C  
   
   k10temp-pci-00c3
   Adapter: PCI adapter
   temp1:        +51.5°C  (high = +70.0°C)
                          (crit = +100.0°C, hyst = +97.0°C)
   
   %

IIUC both of those are sensors within my E350 processor (the first on
the GPU, the second on the CPU).
Now here's my question: how can I figure out what temperature is "safe"
or what is "too high"?

OT1H the "high=70" and "crit=100" would seem to give me the answer, but
OTOH I don't know whether I can trust them (actually, I hope some of
the output is "wrong" since the sensor readings go up routinely to 80°
during long compilations).


        Stefan


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Re: [lm-sensors] Interpreting lm-sensors's output

[Jean Delvare]

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Re: [lm-sensors] Interpreting lm-sensors's output

[Stefan Monnier]

>> OT1H the "high=70" and "crit=100" would seem to give me the answer, but
>> OTOH I don't know whether I can trust them (actually, I hope some of
>> the output is "wrong" since the sensor readings go up routinely to 80°
>> during long compilations).
> They are correct and you should trust them.  If you reach 80°C then you
> probably need better thermal dissipation or a different CPU / graphics
> power management strategy.

The thing that puzzles me is that this low-power mini-ITX board (fanless
Brazos E350) is in a full-size ATX chassis (Antec Sonata) which
previously held an high-power Athlon X2 board (first with the stock
AMD heatsink+fan, and then later with a monster fanless heatsink), so
I have a hard time understanding how this low-power board can heat up
worse than the other one in the exact same context (same chassis,
power-supply, devices, system fan spinning at the same speed, ...).
The Athlon X2 barely reached 70°C in the hottest part of the summer,
under full load.

> BTW, you may have other (unsupported) sensors on the board... Give a
> try to http://dl.lm-sensors.org/lm-sensors/files/sensors-detect
> and report the full output.

OK, I finally added "acpi_enforce_resources=lax" and loaded the it87
module, which does give me a bit more data:

   k10temp-pci-00c3
   Adapter: PCI adapter
   temp1:        +51.6°C  (high = +70.0°C)
                          (crit = +100.0°C, hyst = +97.0°C)
   
   radeon-pci-0008
   Adapter: PCI adapter
   temp1:        +52.0°C
   
   it8721-isa-0a00
   Adapter: ISA adapter
   in0:          +3.06 V  (min =  +1.46 V, max =  +1.98 V)  ALARM
   in1:          +1.07 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +1.52 V)
   in2:          +2.23 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +1.52 V)  ALARM
   in3:          +0.01 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +1.52 V)
   in4:          +1.02 V  (min =  +1.09 V, max =  +0.83 V)  ALARM
   in5:          +1.52 V  (min =  +1.31 V, max =  +0.78 V)  ALARM
   in6:          +1.12 V  (min =  +1.69 V, max =  +2.69 V)  ALARM
   3VSB:         +3.26 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +3.05 V)  ALARM
   Vbat:         +3.24 V  
   fan1:           0 RPM  (min =   20 RPM)  ALARM
   fan2:           0 RPM  (min =   20 RPM)  ALARM
   temp1:        +30.0°C  (low  =  +0.0°C, high = +127.0°C)  sensor = thermal diode
   temp2:       -128.0°C  (low  = +13.0°C, high = -18.0°C)  sensor = disabled
   temp3:       -128.0°C  (low  = -67.0°C, high =  -3.0°C)  sensor = disabled
   intrusion0:  ALARM

So I guess the it87 "temp1" is a "motherboard" sensor.  This one always
stays much lower than the other two sensors.


        Stefan

_______________________________________________
lm-sensors mailing list
lm-sensors@lm-sensors.org
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Re: [lm-sensors] Interpreting lm-sensors's output

[Jean Delvare]

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Re: [lm-sensors] Interpreting lm-sensors's output

[Stefan Monnier]

>> >> OT1H the "high=70" and "crit=100" would seem to give me the answer, but
>> >> OTOH I don't know whether I can trust them (actually, I hope some of
>> >> the output is "wrong" since the sensor readings go up routinely to 80°
>> >> during long compilations).
>> > They are correct and you should trust them.  If you reach 80°C then you
>> > probably need better thermal dissipation or a different CPU / graphics
>> > power management strategy.
>> The thing that puzzles me is that this low-power mini-ITX board (fanless
>> Brazos E350) is in a full-size ATX chassis (Antec Sonata) which
>> previously held an high-power Athlon X2 board (first with the stock
>> AMD heatsink+fan, and then later with a monster fanless heatsink), so
>> I have a hard time understanding how this low-power board can heat up
>> worse than the other one in the exact same context (same chassis,
>> power-supply, devices, system fan spinning at the same speed, ...).
>> The Athlon X2 barely reached 70°C in the hottest part of the summer,
>> under full load.
> Comparing a system with a CPU fan with one without doesn't necessarily
> make a lot of sense. Sure, the chassis and system fan are the same, but
> when you had a CPU fan it was the main factor for determining the CPU
> temperature. Now the airflow in the chassis has become the main factor.

As mentioned, I've used my Athlon X2 both with a CPU fan and without
(using a larger heatsink).  But I guess you're right that maybe the
airflow just isn't good enough on the heatsink (the Athlon X2's
heatsink was so massive that the airflow had to go through it, whereas
the one on my new AMD E350 is much smaller, so it's quite likely that
most of the airflow goes past it).

> Also note that the values reported by k8temp / k10temp are essentially
> relative values in pseudo-degrees C, so comparing them from one CPU
> model to another is not meaningful either. What is meaningful is the
> difference between the current temperature and the high (or critical)
> limit. That is, the thermal margin.

Yes, knowing that I can trust the `high' and `crit' values is what
I needed to hear.

>> OK, I finally added "acpi_enforce_resources=lax" and loaded the it87
> Not necessarily a good idea in the long run, but I'll assume you know
> what you're doing.

No, I don't actually know what I'm doing (only have a vague idea, like
enough to know it's not a good idea), but it's the only way to access
the it87 sensors right now it seems (for lack of a corresponding ACPI
driver).

> Yes, I would assume the same, although it's strange that it is a
> thermal diode, usually a thermistor is used for motherboard
> temperature. You should check what the BIOS has to say with regards to
> temperatures. If the motherboard really runs at 30°C then it seems
> reasonable.

The BIOS only reports one temperature measurement which hovers around
45°C (sounds lowish for the k10 sensor, and very high for the it87
sensor, so all in all, I'd guess it's the k10temp sensor, unless it's
a completely different one which lm-sensors doesn't know about).


        Stefan

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Re: [lm-sensors] Interpreting lm-sensors's output

[Stefan Monnier]

>> k10temp-pci-00c3
>> Adapter: PCI adapter
>> temp1:        +51.5°C  (high = +70.0°C)
>>                        (crit = +100.0°C, hyst = +97.0°C)
[...]
>> OT1H the "high=70" and "crit=100" would seem to give me the answer, but
>> OTOH I don't know whether I can trust them (actually, I hope some of
>> the output is "wrong" since the sensor readings go up routinely to 80°
>> during long compilations).
> They are correct and you should trust them.  If you reach 80°C then you

Just one more question about these numbers: would the same numbers
appear under Windows (everything else being "equal")?


        Stefan


PS: I'm trying to argue with the company (Zotac) that my board has thermal
problems, but they suck (i.e. they dismiss GNU/Linux users), so I need
to be sure that the numbers they give me (which they get under Windows
from I don't know which tool) are comparable to the ones I see.


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Re: [lm-sensors] Interpreting lm-sensors's output

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Re: [lm-sensors] Interpreting lm-sensors's output

[Stefan Monnier]

>> >> k10temp-pci-00c3
>> >> Adapter: PCI adapter
>> >> temp1:        +51.5°C  (high = +70.0°C)
>> >>                        (crit = +100.0°C, hyst = +97.0°C)
>> [...]
>> >> OT1H the "high=70" and "crit=100" would seem to give me the answer, but
>> >> OTOH I don't know whether I can trust them (actually, I hope some of
>> >> the output is "wrong" since the sensor readings go up routinely to 80°
>> >> during long compilations).
>> > They are correct and you should trust them.  If you reach 80°C then you
>> Just one more question about these numbers: would the same numbers
>> appear under Windows (everything else being "equal")?
> This is impossible to say, I'm afraid.
> First, there are various ways to save power in modern systems, via
> frequency scaling, undervolting when idle, P states, C states, etc.

I'm concerned about the "full load" case, where power management should
not have any noticeable impact, I think.

> Secondly, the monitoring values returned depend on the tool used to
> gather, interpret and present them to the user.

Aha!  That's more worrisome.

> You've seen yourself that the k10temp, radeon and it87 drivers report
> different temperatures, so you have to know which one the other side
> is using when comparing.

Oh, regarding which sensor is used, IIUC they use "the APU internal
sensor" which would be either k10temp or radeon's sensor, both of which
return pretty much the same temperature anyway (at least in lm-sensors).

> Also note that some tools can apply arbitrary offsets to the
> temperature values they report, to compensate for a number of things
> (like thermal sensor imperfection or distance between sensor and
> monitored item.) This is something we can in general not do under
> Linux as we do not have the information.

Hmm... so they may see incomparable values even though it comes from the
same sensor as the k10temp?

>> PS: I'm trying to argue with the company (Zotac) that my board has thermal
>> problems, but they suck (i.e. they dismiss GNU/Linux users), so I need
>> to be sure that the numbers they give me (which they get under Windows
>> from I don't know which tool) are comparable to the ones I see.
> This is strange, I was in contact with a Zotac engineer in late 2009 /
> early 2010 and back then they seemed to care about Linux at least to
> some extent, in particular when it came to thermal monitoring.

Either things have changed, or it simply depends on which technician you
happen to talk to.


        Stefan


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