From: Hajime Tazaki <tazaki@wide.ad.jp> To: richard@nod.at Cc: linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, arnd@arndb.de, corbet@lwn.net, cl@linux.com, penberg@kernel.org, rientjes@google.com, iamjoonsoo.kim@lge.com, akpm@linux-foundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, jdike@addtoit.com, rusty@rustcorp.com.au, mathieu.lacage@gmail.com Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 00/11] an introduction of library operating system for Linux (LibOS) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 15:34:40 +0900 [thread overview] Message-ID: <m28uejaqyn.wl@wide.ad.jp> (raw) In-Reply-To: <5514560A.7040707@nod.at> Hi Richard, At Thu, 26 Mar 2015 19:55:06 +0100, Richard Weinberger wrote: > >> feeling that "lib" is the wrong name. > >> It has not much do to with an architecture. > > > > could you care to elaborate your feeling more explicitly ? > > > > what is an architecture here and what is _not_ an > > architecture ? > > is UML an architecture in your sense (probably yes, but why)? > > UML is an architecture as it binds the whole kernel to a computer > interface. Linux userspace in that case. > > > and what is arch/lib missing for an architecture ? > > Your arch/lib does not bind the Linux kernel to an interface. > It takes some part of Linux and duplicates kernel core subsystems > to make that part work on its own. > For example arch/lib contains a stub implementation of core VFS > functions like register_filesystem(). > Also it does not seem to use the kernel scheduler, you have your own. the scheduler is the part of which a library user (NUSE or DCE) should implement. > This also infers that arch/lib will be broken most of the time as > every time the networking stack references a new symbol it > has to be duplicated into arch/lib. > > But this does not mean that your idea is bad, all I want to say that > I'm not sure whether arch/lib is the right approach. > Maybe Arnd has a better idea. one way to avoid the duplication is: to put our libos-specific implementation to the kernel core subsystem. Maybe this will introduce a bunch of #ifdefs (ifdef CONFIG_LIB) into cores, which I don't know it's okay or not. for example, add_timer() is implemented in arch/lib/timer.c while in kernel/time/timer.c in kernel core. # [04/11] to [08/11] of my RFC patches are these parts. We've been implemented these stubs (we call 'kernel glue code') into arch/lib because 1) we were in out-of-tree and 2) this won't disturb kernel core. OTOH, [03/11] (and [09/11] and [10/11]) is an original part of libos, which probably have no conflict (in terms of the concept) to the others. I'm still thinking arch/lib is an appropriate place. > >> You don't implement an architecture, you take some part of Linux > >> (the networking stack) and create stubs around it to make it work. > >> That means that we'd also have to duplicate kernel functions into > >> arch/lib to keep it running. > > > > again, the above same questions. > > > > it (arch/lib) is a hardware-independent architecture which > > provides necessary features to the remainder of kernel code, > > isn't it ? > > The stuff in arch/ is the code to glue the kernel to > a specific piece of hardware. > Your code does something between. You duplicate kernel core features > to make a specific piece of code work in userland. indeed, 'something between' would be an appropriate word. thank you for your comment. -- Hajime
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Hajime Tazaki<tazaki@wide.ad.jp> To: richard@nod.at Cc: linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, arnd@arndb.de, corbet@lwn.net, cl@linux.com, penberg@kernel.org, rientjes@google.com, iamjoonsoo.kim@lge.com, akpm@linux-foundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, jdike@addtoit.com, rusty@rustcorp.com.au, mathieu.lacage@gmail.com Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 00/11] an introduction of library operating system for Linux (LibOS) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 15:34:40 +0900 [thread overview] Message-ID: <m28uejaqyn.wl@wide.ad.jp> (raw) In-Reply-To: <5514560A.7040707@nod.at> Hi Richard, At Thu, 26 Mar 2015 19:55:06 +0100, Richard Weinberger wrote: > >> feeling that "lib" is the wrong name. > >> It has not much do to with an architecture. > > > > could you care to elaborate your feeling more explicitly ? > > > > what is an architecture here and what is _not_ an > > architecture ? > > is UML an architecture in your sense (probably yes, but why)? > > UML is an architecture as it binds the whole kernel to a computer > interface. Linux userspace in that case. > > > and what is arch/lib missing for an architecture ? > > Your arch/lib does not bind the Linux kernel to an interface. > It takes some part of Linux and duplicates kernel core subsystems > to make that part work on its own. > For example arch/lib contains a stub implementation of core VFS > functions like register_filesystem(). > Also it does not seem to use the kernel scheduler, you have your own. the scheduler is the part of which a library user (NUSE or DCE) should implement. > This also infers that arch/lib will be broken most of the time as > every time the networking stack references a new symbol it > has to be duplicated into arch/lib. > > But this does not mean that your idea is bad, all I want to say that > I'm not sure whether arch/lib is the right approach. > Maybe Arnd has a better idea. one way to avoid the duplication is: to put our libos-specific implementation to the kernel core subsystem. Maybe this will introduce a bunch of #ifdefs (ifdef CONFIG_LIB) into cores, which I don't know it's okay or not. for example, add_timer() is implemented in arch/lib/timer.c while in kernel/time/timer.c in kernel core. # [04/11] to [08/11] of my RFC patches are these parts. We've been implemented these stubs (we call 'kernel glue code') into arch/lib because 1) we were in out-of-tree and 2) this won't disturb kernel core. OTOH, [03/11] (and [09/11] and [10/11]) is an original part of libos, which probably have no conflict (in terms of the concept) to the others. I'm still thinking arch/lib is an appropriate place. > >> You don't implement an architecture, you take some part of Linux > >> (the networking stack) and create stubs around it to make it work. > >> That means that we'd also have to duplicate kernel functions into > >> arch/lib to keep it running. > > > > again, the above same questions. > > > > it (arch/lib) is a hardware-independent architecture which > > provides necessary features to the remainder of kernel code, > > isn't it ? > > The stuff in arch/ is the code to glue the kernel to > a specific piece of hardware. > Your code does something between. You duplicate kernel core features > to make a specific piece of code work in userland. indeed, 'something between' would be an appropriate word. thank you for your comment. -- Hajime -- To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in the body to majordomo@kvack.org. For more info on Linux MM, see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ . Don't email: <a href=mailto:"dont@kvack.org"> email@kvack.org </a>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-03-27 6:34 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 231+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2015-03-24 13:10 [RFC PATCH 00/11] an introduction of library operating system for Linux (LibOS) Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` [RFC PATCH 01/11] sysctl: make some functions unstatic to access by arch/lib Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 16:13 ` Joe Perches 2015-03-24 16:13 ` Joe Perches 2015-03-24 16:13 ` Joe Perches 2015-03-25 15:31 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-25 15:31 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` [RFC PATCH 02/11] slab: add private memory allocator header for arch/lib Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` [RFC PATCH 03/11] lib: public headers and API implementations for userspace programs Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` [RFC PATCH 04/11] lib: memory management (kernel glue code) Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` [RFC PATCH 05/11] lib: time handling " Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` [RFC PATCH 06/11] lib: context and scheduling " Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` [RFC PATCH 07/11] lib: sysctl " Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` [RFC PATCH 08/11] lib: other kernel glue layer code Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-29 18:17 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-29 18:17 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-31 7:36 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-31 7:36 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-03 1:24 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-03 1:24 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` [RFC PATCH 09/11] lib: asm-generic files Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` [RFC PATCH 10/11] lib: libos build scripts and documentation Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` [RFC PATCH 11/11] lib: tools used for test scripts Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:10 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 13:21 ` [RFC PATCH 00/11] an introduction of library operating system for Linux (LibOS) Richard Weinberger 2015-03-24 13:21 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-24 13:21 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-24 13:21 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-24 14:25 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 14:25 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 14:32 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-24 14:32 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-24 15:24 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 15:24 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-24 15:27 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-24 15:27 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-25 14:48 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-25 14:48 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-25 22:50 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-25 22:50 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-26 16:24 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-26 16:24 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-26 18:55 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-26 18:55 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-27 3:31 ` Rusty Russell 2015-03-27 3:31 ` Rusty Russell 2015-03-27 3:49 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2015-03-27 3:49 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2015-03-27 5:52 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-27 5:52 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-27 6:05 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-27 6:05 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-27 6:34 ` Hajime Tazaki [this message] 2015-03-27 6:34 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-27 9:21 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-27 9:21 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-27 15:17 ` Antti Kantee 2015-03-28 21:17 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-29 15:36 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-29 16:47 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-29 16:59 ` Antti Kantee 2015-03-29 18:05 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-29 15:06 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-29 15:06 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-30 6:41 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-30 6:41 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-03-31 7:47 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-03-31 7:47 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-09 8:36 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-04-09 8:36 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-04-14 3:20 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-14 3:20 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-01 1:29 ` Rusty Russell 2015-04-01 1:29 ` Rusty Russell 2015-04-03 1:43 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-03 1:43 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-07 1:25 ` Rusty Russell 2015-04-07 1:25 ` Rusty Russell 2015-04-17 9:36 ` [RFC PATCH v2 " Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` [RFC PATCH v2 01/11] sysctl: make some functions unstatic to access by arch/lib Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` [RFC PATCH v2 02/11] slab: add private memory allocator header for arch/lib Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 12:17 ` Christoph Lameter 2015-04-17 12:17 ` Christoph Lameter 2015-04-17 12:44 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-04-17 12:44 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-04-17 15:02 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 15:02 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 15:08 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-04-17 15:08 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-04-17 15:27 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 15:27 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 22:26 ` Christoph Lameter 2015-04-17 22:26 ` Christoph Lameter 2015-04-17 9:36 ` [RFC PATCH v2 03/11] lib: public headers and API implementations for userspace programs Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` [RFC PATCH v2 04/11] lib: memory management (kernel glue code) Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` [RFC PATCH v2 05/11] lib: time handling " Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` [RFC PATCH v2 06/11] lib: context and scheduling " Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` [RFC PATCH v2 07/11] lib: sysctl " Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` [RFC PATCH v2 08/11] lib: other kernel glue layer code Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` [RFC PATCH v2 09/11] lib: asm-generic files Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` [RFC PATCH v2 10/11] lib: libos build scripts and documentation Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` [RFC PATCH v2 11/11] lib: tools used for test scripts Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-17 9:36 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 00/10] an introduction of library operating system for Linux (LibOS) Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 01/10] sysctl: make some functions unstatic to access by arch/lib Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 02/10] slab: add SLIB (Library memory allocator) for arch/lib Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 03/10] lib: public headers and API implementations for userspace programs Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 04/10] lib: time handling (kernel glue code) Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 05/10] lib: context and scheduling functions (kernel glue code) for libos Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 06/10] lib: sysctl handling (kernel glue code) Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 07/10] lib: other kernel glue layer code Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 08/10] lib: auxially files for auto-generated asm-generic files of libos Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 09/10] lib: libos build scripts and documentation Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-20 20:43 ` Paul Bolle 2015-04-20 20:43 ` Paul Bolle 2015-04-22 5:33 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-22 5:33 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` [RFC PATCH v3 10/10] lib: tools used for test scripts Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-19 13:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-24 7:40 ` [RFC PATCH v3 00/10] an introduction of library operating system for Linux (LibOS) Richard Weinberger 2015-04-24 7:40 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-04-24 8:22 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-24 8:22 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-24 8:59 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-04-24 8:59 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-04-24 9:50 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-24 9:50 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` [PATCH v4 00/10] an introduction of Linux library operating system (LibOS) Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` [PATCH v4 01/10] sysctl: make some functions unstatic to access by arch/lib Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` [PATCH v4 02/10] slab: add SLIB (Library memory allocator) for arch/lib Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` [PATCH v4 03/10] lib: public headers and API implementations for userspace programs Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` [PATCH v4 04/10] lib: time handling (kernel glue code) Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` [PATCH v4 05/10] lib: context and scheduling functions (kernel glue code) for libos Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` [PATCH v4 06/10] lib: sysctl handling (kernel glue code) Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` [PATCH v4 07/10] lib: other kernel glue layer code Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` [PATCH v4 08/10] lib: auxially files for auto-generated asm-generic files of libos Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` [PATCH v4 09/10] lib: libos build scripts and documentation Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` [PATCH v4 10/10] lib: tools used for test scripts Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 3:00 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-27 7:29 ` [PATCH v4 00/10] an introduction of Linux library operating system (LibOS) Richard Weinberger 2015-04-27 7:29 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-04-27 7:39 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-04-27 7:39 ` Richard Weinberger 2015-04-29 23:16 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-04-29 23:16 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` [PATCH v5 " Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` [PATCH v5 01/10] sysctl: make some functions unstatic to access by arch/lib Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` [PATCH v5 02/10] slab: add SLIB (Library memory allocator) for arch/lib Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` [PATCH v5 03/10] lib: public headers and API implementations for userspace programs Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` [PATCH v5 04/10] lib: time handling (kernel glue code) Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` [PATCH v5 05/10] lib: context and scheduling functions (kernel glue code) for libos Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` [PATCH v5 06/10] lib: sysctl handling (kernel glue code) Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` [PATCH v5 07/10] lib: other kernel glue layer code Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` [PATCH v5 08/10] lib: auxiliary files for auto-generated asm-generic files of libos Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` [PATCH v5 09/10] lib: libos build scripts and documentation Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` [PATCH v5 10/10] lib: tools used for test scripts Hajime Tazaki 2015-05-13 5:28 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` [PATCH v6 00/10] an introduction of Linux library operating system (LibOS) Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` [PATCH v6 01/10] sysctl: make some functions unstatic to access by arch/lib Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` [PATCH v6 02/10] slab: add SLIB (Library memory allocator) for arch/lib Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` [PATCH v6 03/10] lib: public headers and API implementations for userspace programs Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` [PATCH v6 04/10] lib: time handling (kernel glue code) Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` [PATCH v6 05/10] lib: context and scheduling functions (kernel glue code) for libos Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` [PATCH v6 06/10] lib: sysctl handling (kernel glue code) Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` [PATCH v6 07/10] lib: other kernel glue layer code Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` [PATCH v6 08/10] lib: auxiliary files for auto-generated asm-generic files of libos Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` [PATCH v6 09/10] lib: libos build scripts and documentation Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` [PATCH v6 10/10] lib: tools used for test scripts Hajime Tazaki 2015-09-03 14:16 ` Hajime Tazaki
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