* [Qemu-devel] AIX emulated on x86 host
@ 2010-10-27 20:23 glen.c.bodie
2010-10-28 15:34 ` Stefan Hajnoczi
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: glen.c.bodie @ 2010-10-27 20:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: qemu-devel
Sorry - first message had non-plain text by mistake. Trying again ...
I have an old AIX machine (IBM RS/6000 running AIX v5.x) and it's about to
fall apart. I would like to migrate that machine's functions onto one of
my VMware hosts, all of which are DELL 2950 servers (x86 architecture). I
know VMware only runs x86 architecture guests. So I am planning a Windows
2003 Server guest, running QEMU as really the only thing it is doing and
inside QEMU I want to run that AIX machine's functions.
Fundamental question - think that will work?
If the answer is YES then I need to worry about creating the PPC disk
image, loading AIX onto it, loading my AIX applications and migrating the
data from the old hardware to the new emulated machine. Think I'm nuts?
Got a better alternative?
Regards - Glen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] AIX emulated on x86 host
2010-10-27 20:23 [Qemu-devel] AIX emulated on x86 host glen.c.bodie
@ 2010-10-28 15:34 ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2010-10-28 15:42 ` Natalia Portillo
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Hajnoczi @ 2010-10-28 15:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glen.c.bodie; +Cc: qemu-devel
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 9:23 PM, <glen.c.bodie@esso.ca> wrote:
> Sorry - first message had non-plain text by mistake. Trying again ...
>
> I have an old AIX machine (IBM RS/6000 running AIX v5.x) and it's about to
> fall apart. I would like to migrate that machine's functions onto one of
> my VMware hosts, all of which are DELL 2950 servers (x86 architecture). I
> know VMware only runs x86 architecture guests. So I am planning a Windows
> 2003 Server guest, running QEMU as really the only thing it is doing and
> inside QEMU I want to run that AIX machine's functions.
>
> Fundamental question - think that will work?
>
> If the answer is YES then I need to worry about creating the PPC disk
> image, loading AIX onto it, loading my AIX applications and migrating the
> data from the old hardware to the new emulated machine. Think I'm nuts?
> Got a better alternative?
I'm not aware of people doing this or whether the ppc targets
supported by QEMU can even run AIX hardware/firmware-wise. Perhaps
someone has a definitive answer?
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] AIX emulated on x86 host
2010-10-28 15:34 ` Stefan Hajnoczi
@ 2010-10-28 15:42 ` Natalia Portillo
2010-10-28 20:14 ` Alexander Graf
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Natalia Portillo @ 2010-10-28 15:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Hajnoczi; +Cc: qemu-devel, glen.c.bodie
The last thing I've heard about that was long time ago when I and Jocelyn tried to make it work with OpenHackWare to no luck.
Anyway, right now, it does not work either, I just don't know if anyone is working on it.
I know that the AIX boot process is quite different (using MBR partition scheme, different memory maps).
Sorry but right now, "Does AIX/RS6000 work on QEMU?" is NO.
Regards,
Natalia Portillo
El 28/10/2010, a las 16:34, Stefan Hajnoczi escribió:
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 9:23 PM, <glen.c.bodie@esso.ca> wrote:
>> Sorry - first message had non-plain text by mistake. Trying again ...
>>
>> I have an old AIX machine (IBM RS/6000 running AIX v5.x) and it's about to
>> fall apart. I would like to migrate that machine's functions onto one of
>> my VMware hosts, all of which are DELL 2950 servers (x86 architecture). I
>> know VMware only runs x86 architecture guests. So I am planning a Windows
>> 2003 Server guest, running QEMU as really the only thing it is doing and
>> inside QEMU I want to run that AIX machine's functions.
>>
>> Fundamental question - think that will work?
>>
>> If the answer is YES then I need to worry about creating the PPC disk
>> image, loading AIX onto it, loading my AIX applications and migrating the
>> data from the old hardware to the new emulated machine. Think I'm nuts?
>> Got a better alternative?
>
> I'm not aware of people doing this or whether the ppc targets
> supported by QEMU can even run AIX hardware/firmware-wise. Perhaps
> someone has a definitive answer?
>
> Stefan
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] AIX emulated on x86 host
2010-10-28 15:42 ` Natalia Portillo
@ 2010-10-28 20:14 ` Alexander Graf
2010-10-30 11:14 ` Andreas Färber
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Alexander Graf @ 2010-10-28 20:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Natalia Portillo
Cc: Stefan Hajnoczi, Andreas Färber, qemu-devel Developers,
glen.c.bodie
On 28.10.2010, at 08:42, Natalia Portillo wrote:
> The last thing I've heard about that was long time ago when I and Jocelyn tried to make it work with OpenHackWare to no luck.
>
> Anyway, right now, it does not work either, I just don't know if anyone is working on it.
FWIW, Andreas Färber is working on it. Those efforts are really just at the beginning though, so don't expect to see anything soon.
Also, windows is a second-class platform for Qemu. It works, but not all features are supported and testing is usually done on Linux. So if you're planning to do anything with Qemu, please try to do it on a Linux host.
Alex
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] AIX emulated on x86 host
2010-10-28 20:14 ` Alexander Graf
@ 2010-10-30 11:14 ` Andreas Färber
2010-10-30 12:49 ` [Qemu-devel] " Andreas Schwab
2010-11-02 13:53 ` [Qemu-devel] " glen.c.bodie
0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Färber @ 2010-10-30 11:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glen.c.bodie; +Cc: Stefan Hajnoczi, Alexander Graf, qemu-devel Developers
Am 28.10.2010 um 22:14 schrieb Alexander Graf:
> On 28.10.2010, at 08:42, Natalia Portillo wrote:
>
>> The last thing I've heard about that was long time ago when I and
>> Jocelyn tried to make it work with OpenHackWare to no luck.
>>
>> Anyway, right now, it does not work either, I just don't know if
>> anyone is working on it.
>
>
> FWIW, Andreas Färber is working on it. Those efforts are really just
> at the beginning though, so don't expect to see anything soon.
There are three main issues currently:
1) QEMU doesn't emulate a machine that would run current versions of
AIX in reality.
2) We don't have a true ppc64 OpenBIOS, just some ppc64 support in the
32-bit version.
3) RTAS is just a stub in OpenBIOS, it doesn't even signal an error
when used.
What I am working on:
* ppc64 compatibility of OpenBIOS code, i.e. getting things compiled
at all
* 32-bit RTAS binary with minimal functionality
* a ppc64-softmmu chrp machine and accompanying differentiations in
OpenBIOS
I occasionally push my WIP to:
http://repo.or.cz/w/qemu/afaerber.git - aix branch
http://repo.or.cz/w/openbios/afaerber.git - ppc branch
How you could help:
* Provide us with device trees from real AIX-capable CHRP machines
that we can model memory layout and OF tree from. Additionally, any
info on what devices/chipsets we would need to emulate would be
helpful. (I'm currently basing things on mac99 emulation in lack
thereof.)
* Subscribe to the OpenBIOS mailing list [1] and review and test our
ppc64 patches.
* Any advice on how to get GCC 4.3+ powerpc64-linux cross-compilers
built [2] would be appreciated. We could then better rule out compiler
bugs.
* You might try making the ppc-softmmu PReP emulation work with
OpenBIOS and check if that would be supported by AIX 5. Massimo
Montecchi inquired about that but didn't post any patches since then;
you could try contacting him. If PReP were supported by AIX 5, it
would still require RTAS support in OpenBIOS though.
Regards,
Andreas
[1] http://www.openfirmware.info/mailman/listinfo/openbios
[2] http://lists.openbios.org/pipermail/openbios/2010-October/005343.html
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* [Qemu-devel] Re: AIX emulated on x86 host
2010-10-30 11:14 ` Andreas Färber
@ 2010-10-30 12:49 ` Andreas Schwab
2010-11-07 23:27 ` Andreas Färber
2010-11-02 13:53 ` [Qemu-devel] " glen.c.bodie
1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Schwab @ 2010-10-30 12:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andreas Färber
Cc: Stefan Hajnoczi, Alexander Graf, glen.c.bodie, qemu-devel Developers
Andreas Färber <andreas.faerber@web.de> writes:
> * Any advice on how to get GCC 4.3+ powerpc64-linux cross-compilers built
> [2] would be appreciated. We could then better rule out compiler bugs.
You don't need any of the target libraries, just the compiler, since you
are purely in freestanding land. So all you need is "make all-gcc".
Andreas.
--
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] AIX emulated on x86 host
2010-10-30 11:14 ` Andreas Färber
2010-10-30 12:49 ` [Qemu-devel] " Andreas Schwab
@ 2010-11-02 13:53 ` glen.c.bodie
2010-11-02 19:56 ` Jernej Simončič
1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: glen.c.bodie @ 2010-11-02 13:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andreas Färber
Cc: Stefan Hajnoczi, Alexander Graf, qemu-devel Developers
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2635 bytes --]
Andreas - it sounds like an interesting development project, but I'm going
to have to decline. The amount of effort to get my application running on
AIX emulated under QEMU seems to be greater than the effort we were hoping
to avoid in the first case by porting the code to Windows. TNSTAAFL,
thanks.
Regards - Glen
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Am 28.10.2010 um 22:14 schrieb Alexander Graf:
> On 28.10.2010, at 08:42, Natalia Portillo wrote:
>
>> The last thing I've heard about that was long time ago when I and
>> Jocelyn tried to make it work with OpenHackWare to no luck.
>>
>> Anyway, right now, it does not work either, I just don't know if
>> anyone is working on it.
>
> FWIW, Andreas Färber is working on it. Those efforts are really just
> at the beginning though, so don't expect to see anything soon.
There are three main issues currently:
1) QEMU doesn't emulate a machine that would run current versions of
AIX in reality.
2) We don't have a true ppc64 OpenBIOS, just some ppc64 support in the
32-bit version.
3) RTAS is just a stub in OpenBIOS, it doesn't even signal an error
when used.
What I am working on:
* ppc64 compatibility of OpenBIOS code, i.e. getting things compiled
at all
* 32-bit RTAS binary with minimal functionality
* a ppc64-softmmu chrp machine and accompanying differentiations in
OpenBIOS
I occasionally push my WIP to:
http://repo.or.cz/w/qemu/afaerber.git - aix branch
http://repo.or.cz/w/openbios/afaerber.git - ppc branch
How you could help:
* Provide us with device trees from real AIX-capable CHRP machines
that we can model memory layout and OF tree from. Additionally, any
info on what devices/chipsets we would need to emulate would be
helpful. (I'm currently basing things on mac99 emulation in lack
thereof.)
* Subscribe to the OpenBIOS mailing list [1] and review and test our
ppc64 patches.
* Any advice on how to get GCC 4.3+ powerpc64-linux cross-compilers
built [2] would be appreciated. We could then better rule out compiler
bugs.
* You might try making the ppc-softmmu PReP emulation work with
OpenBIOS and check if that would be supported by AIX 5. Massimo
Montecchi inquired about that but didn't post any patches since then;
you could try contacting him. If PReP were supported by AIX 5, it
would still require RTAS support in OpenBIOS though.
Regards,
Andreas
[1] http://www.openfirmware.info/mailman/listinfo/openbios
[2] http://lists.openbios.org/pipermail/openbios/2010-October/005343.html
[-- Attachment #2: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature --]
[-- Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature, Size: 3624 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Qemu-devel] AIX emulated on x86 host
2010-11-02 13:53 ` [Qemu-devel] " glen.c.bodie
@ 2010-11-02 19:56 ` Jernej Simončič
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Jernej Simončič @ 2010-11-02 19:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glen.c.bodie on [qemu-devel]; +Cc: glen.c.bodie
On Tuesday, November 2, 2010, 14:53:08, glen.c.bodie@esso.ca wrote:
> Andreas - it sounds like an interesting development project, but I'm going
> to have to decline. The amount of effort to get my application running on
> AIX emulated under QEMU seems to be greater than the effort we were hoping
> to avoid in the first case by porting the code to Windows. TNSTAAFL,
> thanks.
Since you're porting an application, you may find it easier to use
Windows' Services for Unix Applications, which gives you a pretty
complete POSIX environment on top of the NT kernel.
--
< Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ >
Judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.
-- Robert Lee's Truce
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* [Qemu-devel] Re: AIX emulated on x86 host
2010-10-30 12:49 ` [Qemu-devel] " Andreas Schwab
@ 2010-11-07 23:27 ` Andreas Färber
2010-11-07 23:40 ` Andreas Schwab
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Färber @ 2010-11-07 23:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andreas Schwab; +Cc: Alexander Graf, qemu-devel Developers
Am 30.10.2010 um 14:49 schrieb Andreas Schwab:
> Andreas Färber <andreas.faerber@web.de> writes:
>
>> * Any advice on how to get GCC 4.3+ powerpc64-linux cross-compilers
>> built
>> [2] would be appreciated. We could then better rule out compiler
>> bugs.
>
> You don't need any of the target libraries, just the compiler, since
> you
> are purely in freestanding land. So all you need is "make all-gcc".
make all-gcc
make all-target-libgcc
make install-gcc
make install-target-libgcc
did the trick, thanks a lot!
You wouldn't happen to know what to do about an "undefined reference
to `_GLOBAL_OFFSET_TABLE_'"?
Output format is binary and supposed to be relocatable (tried -fpic
and -fpie; for an RTAS blob relocated by OpenBIOS).
Compiles with above 4.5.1 powerpc64-linux-gnu-gcc but fails with
powerpc-elf-gcc.
Is this a symbol I must provide in freestanding land? If yes, how? Or
am I using the wrong compiler flags?
Andreas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* [Qemu-devel] Re: AIX emulated on x86 host
2010-11-07 23:27 ` Andreas Färber
@ 2010-11-07 23:40 ` Andreas Schwab
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Schwab @ 2010-11-07 23:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andreas Färber; +Cc: Alexander Graf, qemu-devel Developers
Andreas Färber <andreas.faerber@web.de> writes:
> You wouldn't happen to know what to do about an "undefined reference to
> _GLOBAL_OFFSET_TABLE_'"?
That symbol is generated by the linker, so it depends on how you call
it.
> Output format is binary and supposed to be relocatable (tried -fpic and
> -fpie; for an RTAS blob relocated by OpenBIOS).
Does it understand ELF PIC relocations?
Andreas.
--
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2010-11-07 23:40 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2010-10-27 20:23 [Qemu-devel] AIX emulated on x86 host glen.c.bodie
2010-10-28 15:34 ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2010-10-28 15:42 ` Natalia Portillo
2010-10-28 20:14 ` Alexander Graf
2010-10-30 11:14 ` Andreas Färber
2010-10-30 12:49 ` [Qemu-devel] " Andreas Schwab
2010-11-07 23:27 ` Andreas Färber
2010-11-07 23:40 ` Andreas Schwab
2010-11-02 13:53 ` [Qemu-devel] " glen.c.bodie
2010-11-02 19:56 ` Jernej Simončič
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