GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Matthieu Moy]

Hi,

The Google Summer of Code 2017 program is launched
(https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/).

Last year, Pranit Bauva worked on porting "git bisect" from shell to C,
mentored by Christian and Lars (I didn't follow closely, but essentially
many preparatory steps, cleanups and tests were merged in master, and
patches starting the real port are still queued in pu). The org admins
were Peff and I.

The application deadline is February 9, 2017, i.e. a bit more than 2
weeks from now. So, we should decide quickly whether or not to
participate, and if so work on the application.

On my side, I've been struggling to find some time budget to allocate to
Git since last year and I couldn't even keep up with discussions on this
list :-(. Last summer, I thought that being an org co-admin would help,
but it didn't. So, as much as possible, I'd like to avoid being an org
admin this year. It's not a lot of work (much, much less than being a
mentor!), but if I manage to get some time to work for Git, I'd rather
do that on coding and reviewing this year.

So, a bunch of unanswered questions:

* Does the git.git community want to participate in GSoC this year?
  Actually, I have mixed feelings about this: I do like GSoC, but it
  seems we lack reviewer time more than coder time, and GSoC does not
  make it better. OTOH, a GSoC participant is a potential reviewer in
  the long run ...

* Does the libgit2 community want to participate in GSoC? If so, we
  should clarify the application process. Last year, I wrote (too late):

  > It's essentially too late to change this for this year, but next
  > time we should discuss earlier about how we want to organize this
  > git.git/libgit2 thing. For example, I think it would make little sense
  > to have a git.git microproject and then apply for a libgit2 project
  > since we have very different ways of interacting. And honestly, right
  > now the application is really git.git-centric so I don't think it
  > attracts students towards libgit2. So, if you want to attract more
  > students, we should work on that.

If the answer to one of the above question is yes, then:

* Who's willing to mentor? and to admin?

* We need to write the application, i.e. essentially polish and update
  the text here: https://git.github.io/SoC-2016-Org-Application/ and
  update the list of project ideas and microprojects :
  https://git.github.io/SoC-2017-Ideas/
  https://git.github.io/SoC-2016-Microprojects/

Cheers,

-- 
Matthieu Moy
http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Johannes Schindelin]

Hi Matthieu,

On Mon, 23 Jan 2017, Matthieu Moy wrote:

> * Who's willing to mentor?

As in the years before, I am willing to mentor.

Ciao,
Johannes

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Christian Couder]

On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Johannes Schindelin
<Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> wrote:
> Hi Matthieu,
>
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2017, Matthieu Moy wrote:
>
>> * Who's willing to mentor?
>
> As in the years before, I am willing to mentor.

I am also willing to mentor.

Thanks!

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Jeff King]

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 04:02:02PM +0100, Matthieu Moy wrote:

> If the answer to one of the above question is yes, then:
> 
> * Who's willing to mentor? and to admin?

I did co-admin last year and the year before, but I made Matthieu do all
the work. :)

I do not mind doing the administrative stuff.  But the real work is in
polishing up the ideas list and microprojects page. So I think the first
step, if people are interested in GSoC, is not just to say "yes, let's
do it", but to actually flesh out these pages:

> * We need to write the application, i.e. essentially polish and update
>   the text here: https://git.github.io/SoC-2016-Org-Application/ and
>   update the list of project ideas and microprojects :
>   https://git.github.io/SoC-2017-Ideas/
>   https://git.github.io/SoC-2016-Microprojects/

That can be done incrementally by people who care (especially mentors)
over the next week or so, and doesn't require any real admin
coordination. If it happens and the result looks good, then the
application process is pretty straightforward.

If it doesn't, then we probably ought not to participate in GSoC.

-Peff

PS If we do participate, we should consider Outreachy as well, which can
   expand our base of possible applicants. Though note that ones who are
   not eligible for GSoC would need to be funded by us. Last year GitHub
   offered to cover the stipend for an Outreachy intern for Git. If
   there's interest I can see if that offer can be extended for this
   year.

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Matthieu Moy]

Jeff King <peff@peff.net> writes:

> On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 04:02:02PM +0100, Matthieu Moy wrote:
>
>> * We need to write the application, i.e. essentially polish and update
>>   the text here: https://git.github.io/SoC-2016-Org-Application/ and
>>   update the list of project ideas and microprojects :
>>   https://git.github.io/SoC-2017-Ideas/
>>   https://git.github.io/SoC-2016-Microprojects/
>
> That can be done incrementally by people who care (especially mentors)
> over the next week or so, and doesn't require any real admin
> coordination. If it happens and the result looks good, then the
> application process is pretty straightforward.
>
> If it doesn't, then we probably ought not to participate in GSoC.

OK, it seems the last message did not raise a lot of enthousiasm (unless
I missed some off-list discussion at Git-Merge?).

The application deadline is tomorrow. I think it's time to admit that we
won't participate this year, unless someone steps in really soon.

If we don't participate, I'll add a disclaimer at the top of the
SoC-related pages on git.github.io to make sure students don't waste
time preparing an application.

-- 
Matthieu Moy
http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Jeff King]

On Wed, Feb 08, 2017 at 03:54:25PM +0100, Matthieu Moy wrote:

> >> * We need to write the application, i.e. essentially polish and update
> >>   the text here: https://git.github.io/SoC-2016-Org-Application/ and
> >>   update the list of project ideas and microprojects :
> >>   https://git.github.io/SoC-2017-Ideas/
> >>   https://git.github.io/SoC-2016-Microprojects/
> >
> > That can be done incrementally by people who care (especially mentors)
> > over the next week or so, and doesn't require any real admin
> > coordination. If it happens and the result looks good, then the
> > application process is pretty straightforward.
> >
> > If it doesn't, then we probably ought not to participate in GSoC.
> 
> OK, it seems the last message did not raise a lot of enthousiasm (unless
> I missed some off-list discussion at Git-Merge?).

Nope, there was no discussion that I'm aware of.

> The application deadline is tomorrow. I think it's time to admit that we
> won't participate this year, unless someone steps in really soon.

Yes, I'd agree with that.

Outreachy folks asked if we were interested in participating, but I
think it has roughly the same pre-requisite lists for ideas and
microprojects.

> If we don't participate, I'll add a disclaimer at the top of the
> SoC-related pages on git.github.io to make sure students don't waste
> time preparing an application.

Good idea.

-Peff

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Christian Couder]

On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Matthieu Moy
<Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> wrote:
> Jeff King <peff@peff.net> writes:
>
>> On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 04:02:02PM +0100, Matthieu Moy wrote:
>>
>>> * We need to write the application, i.e. essentially polish and update
>>>   the text here: https://git.github.io/SoC-2016-Org-Application/ and
>>>   update the list of project ideas and microprojects :
>>>   https://git.github.io/SoC-2017-Ideas/
>>>   https://git.github.io/SoC-2016-Microprojects/
>>
>> That can be done incrementally by people who care (especially mentors)
>> over the next week or so, and doesn't require any real admin
>> coordination. If it happens and the result looks good, then the
>> application process is pretty straightforward.
>>
>> If it doesn't, then we probably ought not to participate in GSoC.
>
> OK, it seems the last message did not raise a lot of enthousiasm (unless
> I missed some off-list discussion at Git-Merge?).

I think having 2 possible mentors or co-mentors still shows some
enthousiasm even if I agree it's unfortunate there is not more
enthousiasm.

> The application deadline is tomorrow. I think it's time to admit that we
> won't participate this year, unless someone steps in really soon.

Someone steps in to do what exactly?

I just had a look and the microproject and idea pages for this year are ok.
They are not great sure, but not much worse than the previous years.
What should probably be done is to remove project ideas where is no
"possible mentor" listed.
But I am reluctant to do that as I don't know what Dscho would be ok to mentor.

Also please note that you sent this email just the day before the deadline.
I know that you sent a previous email three weeks ago, but people
easily forget this kind of deadline when they are not often reminded.
(And there is a school vacation is France right now so I am having a
vacation in Alps with unfortunately quite bad Internet access.)

> If we don't participate, I'll add a disclaimer at the top of the
> SoC-related pages on git.github.io to make sure students don't waste
> time preparing an application.

Please submit our application like this.

Thanks,
Christian.

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Matthieu Moy]

Christian Couder <christian.couder@gmail.com> writes:

> On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Matthieu Moy
> <Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> wrote:
>> Jeff King <peff@peff.net> writes:
>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 04:02:02PM +0100, Matthieu Moy wrote:
>>>
>>>> * We need to write the application, i.e. essentially polish and update
>>>>   the text here: https://git.github.io/SoC-2016-Org-Application/ and
>>>>   update the list of project ideas and microprojects :
>>>>   https://git.github.io/SoC-2017-Ideas/
>>>>   https://git.github.io/SoC-2016-Microprojects/
>>>
>>> That can be done incrementally by people who care (especially mentors)
>>> over the next week or so, and doesn't require any real admin
>>> coordination. If it happens and the result looks good, then the
>>> application process is pretty straightforward.
>>>
>>> If it doesn't, then we probably ought not to participate in GSoC.
>>
>> OK, it seems the last message did not raise a lot of enthousiasm (unless
>> I missed some off-list discussion at Git-Merge?).
>
> I think having 2 possible mentors or co-mentors still shows some
> enthousiasm even if I agree it's unfortunate there is not more
> enthousiasm.

A non-quoted but yet important part of my initial email was:

| So, as much as possible, I'd like to avoid being an org admin this
| year. It's not a lot of work (much, much less than being a mentor!),
| but if I manage to get some time to work for Git, I'd rather do that
| on coding and reviewing this year.

and for now, no one stepped in to admin.

Other non-negligible sources of work are reviewing microprojects and
applications. Having a few more messages in this thread would have been
a good hint that we had volunteers to do that.

> Someone steps in to do what exactly?

First we need an admin. Then as you said a bit of janitoring work on
the web pages.

-- 
Matthieu Moy
http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Siddharth Kannan]

On 9 February 2017 at 15:45, Matthieu Moy <Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> wrote:
>
> A non-quoted but yet important part of my initial email was:
>
> | So, as much as possible, I'd like to avoid being an org admin this
> | year. It's not a lot of work (much, much less than being a mentor!),
> | but if I manage to get some time to work for Git, I'd rather do that
> | on coding and reviewing this year.
>
> and for now, no one stepped in to admin.

I would like to point everyone to this reply from Jeff King on the
original post: [1]
(In case this was lost in the midst of other emails) It sounds like
Jeff King is okay
with taking up the "admin" role.

    I do not mind doing the administrative stuff.  But the real work is in
    polishing up the ideas list and microprojects page. So I think the first
    step, if people are interested in GSoC, is not just to say "yes, let's
    do it", but to actually flesh out these pages:

>
>> Someone steps in to do what exactly?
>
> First we need an admin. Then as you said a bit of janitoring work on
> the web pages.


[1]: https://public-inbox.org/git/20170125204504.ebw2sa4uokfwwfnt@sigill.intra.peff.net/

-- 

Best Regards,

- Siddharth.

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Christian Couder]

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Matthieu Moy
<Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> wrote:
> Christian Couder <christian.couder@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Matthieu Moy
>> <Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> wrote:
>>> Jeff King <peff@peff.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 04:02:02PM +0100, Matthieu Moy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> * We need to write the application, i.e. essentially polish and update
>>>>>   the text here: https://git.github.io/SoC-2016-Org-Application/ and
>>>>>   update the list of project ideas and microprojects :
>>>>>   https://git.github.io/SoC-2017-Ideas/
>>>>>   https://git.github.io/SoC-2016-Microprojects/
>>>>
>>>> That can be done incrementally by people who care (especially mentors)
>>>> over the next week or so, and doesn't require any real admin
>>>> coordination. If it happens and the result looks good, then the
>>>> application process is pretty straightforward.
>>>>
>>>> If it doesn't, then we probably ought not to participate in GSoC.
>>>
>>> OK, it seems the last message did not raise a lot of enthousiasm (unless
>>> I missed some off-list discussion at Git-Merge?).
>>
>> I think having 2 possible mentors or co-mentors still shows some
>> enthousiasm even if I agree it's unfortunate there is not more
>> enthousiasm.
>
> A non-quoted but yet important part of my initial email was:
>
> | So, as much as possible, I'd like to avoid being an org admin this
> | year. It's not a lot of work (much, much less than being a mentor!),
> | but if I manage to get some time to work for Git, I'd rather do that
> | on coding and reviewing this year.
>
> and for now, no one stepped in to admin.

Well Peff wrote in reply to your email:

> I did co-admin last year and the year before, but I made Matthieu do all
> the work. :)
>
> I do not mind doing the administrative stuff. But the real work is in
> polishing up the ideas list and microprojects page.

So I thought Peff would be ok to be the admin (do "the administrative stuff").

> Other non-negligible sources of work are reviewing microprojects and
> applications. Having a few more messages in this thread would have been
> a good hint that we had volunteers to do that.

I don't think emails in this thread is what really counts.
I worked on the Idea page starting some months ago, and as I wrote I
reviewed it again and found it not too bad.

>> Someone steps in to do what exactly?
>
> First we need an admin. Then as you said a bit of janitoring work on
> the web pages.

About the janitoring part, as I previously said I am reluctant to do
that as I don't know what Dscho would be ok to mentor.
And I also think it's not absolutely necessary to do it before
applying as an org.

If you just want Peff or someone else to apply, then please just say
it and hopefully Peff will do it and be the admin.

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Christian Couder]

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Siddharth Kannan
<kannan.siddharth12@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9 February 2017 at 15:45, Matthieu Moy <Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> wrote:
>>
>> A non-quoted but yet important part of my initial email was:
>>
>> | So, as much as possible, I'd like to avoid being an org admin this
>> | year. It's not a lot of work (much, much less than being a mentor!),
>> | but if I manage to get some time to work for Git, I'd rather do that
>> | on coding and reviewing this year.
>>
>> and for now, no one stepped in to admin.
>
> I would like to point everyone to this reply from Jeff King on the
> original post: [1]
> (In case this was lost in the midst of other emails) It sounds like
> Jeff King is okay
> with taking up the "admin" role.
>
>     I do not mind doing the administrative stuff.  But the real work is in
>     polishing up the ideas list and microprojects page. So I think the first
>     step, if people are interested in GSoC, is not just to say "yes, let's
>     do it", but to actually flesh out these pages:

Yeah it was also my impression based on the above that Peff would be
ok to take up the admin role.

Now if he doesn't want for some reason to take it, then I am ok with
us not applying, but again it would have been better to be clearer
about that before the eve of the deadline.

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Matthieu Moy]

Christian Couder <christian.couder@gmail.com> writes:

> Well Peff wrote in reply to your email:
>
>> I did co-admin last year and the year before, but I made Matthieu do all
>> the work. :)
>>
>> I do not mind doing the administrative stuff. But the real work is in
>> polishing up the ideas list and microprojects page.
>
> So I thought Peff would be ok to be the admin (do "the administrative
> stuff").

There are several things the admins need to do:

1) "administrative stuff" about money with Conservancy (aka SFC). As I
   understand it, really not much to do since Google and Conservancy
   work directly with each other for most stuff.

2) Filling-in the application, i.e. essentially copy-past from the
   website.
 
3) Then, make sure things that must happen do happen (reviewing
   applications, start online or offline discussions when needed, ...).

Last year Peff did 1) and I did most of 2+3). My understanding of Peff's
reply was "OK to continue doing 1)".

I think you (Christian) could do 2+3). It's much, much less work than
being a mentor. Honnestly I felt like I did nothing and then Peff said I
did all the work :o). I can help, but as I said I'm really short in time
budget and I'd like to spend it more on coding+reviewing.

> I don't think emails in this thread is what really counts.
> I worked on the Idea page starting some months ago, and as I wrote I
> reviewed it again and found it not too bad.

OK, so giving up now seems unfair to you indeed.

I created a Git organization and invited you + Peff as admins. I'll
start cut-and-pasting to show my good faith ;-).

> About the janitoring part, as I previously said I am reluctant to do
> that as I don't know what Dscho would be ok to mentor.
> And I also think it's not absolutely necessary to do it before
> applying as an org.

Right.

-- 
Matthieu Moy
http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Pranit Bauva]

Hey everyone,

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 2:15 AM, Jeff King <peff@peff.net> wrote:
> I do not mind doing the administrative stuff.  But the real work is in
> polishing up the ideas list and microprojects page. So I think the first
> step, if people are interested in GSoC, is not just to say "yes, let's
> do it", but to actually flesh out these pages:

I will help with adding more ideas to the microprojects list. But
since I am not quite familiar with the whole code base, I will need
some help with verifying those whether they are in the scope or not. I
am not sure whether I would be able to help with actual project ideas
but I will try. I will do it within a week or so.

Regards,
Pranit Bauva

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Matthieu Moy]

Matthieu Moy <Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> writes:

> I created a Git organization and invited you + Peff as admins. I'll
> start cut-and-pasting to show my good faith ;-).

I created this page based on last year's:

https://git.github.io/SoC-2017-Org-Application/

I filled-in the "org profile". "Org application" is still TODO.

-- 
Matthieu Moy
http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Matthieu Moy]

Matthieu Moy <Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> writes:

> Matthieu Moy <Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> writes:
>
>> I created a Git organization and invited you + Peff as admins. I'll
>> start cut-and-pasting to show my good faith ;-).
>
> I created this page based on last year's:
>
> https://git.github.io/SoC-2017-Org-Application/
>
> I filled-in the "org profile". "Org application" is still TODO.

PS: I didn't hear from the libgit2 folks, so I think it's reasonable to
consider that we don't apply for them.

-- 
Matthieu Moy
http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Christian Couder]

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Matthieu Moy
<Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> wrote:
> Matthieu Moy <Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> writes:
>
>> I created a Git organization and invited you + Peff as admins.

Great thanks!
I accepted the invite.

> I'll
>> start cut-and-pasting to show my good faith ;-).
>
> I created this page based on last year's:
>
> https://git.github.io/SoC-2017-Org-Application/
>
> I filled-in the "org profile". "Org application" is still TODO.

I copy pasted the Org application from last year, so I think we are good.

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Johannes Schindelin]

Hi Christian,

On Thu, 9 Feb 2017, Christian Couder wrote:

> I just had a look and the microproject and idea pages for this year are
> ok.  They are not great sure, but not much worse than the previous
> years.  What should probably be done is to remove project ideas where is
> no "possible mentor" listed.
>
> But I am reluctant to do that as I don't know what Dscho would be ok to
> mentor.

I am okay to mentor (except anything that touches submodules).

Ciao,
Johannes

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Stefan Beller]

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Johannes Schindelin
<Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> wrote:
> Hi Christian,
>
> On Thu, 9 Feb 2017, Christian Couder wrote:
>
>> I just had a look and the microproject and idea pages for this year are
>> ok.  They are not great sure, but not much worse than the previous
>> years.  What should probably be done is to remove project ideas where is
>> no "possible mentor" listed.
>>
>> But I am reluctant to do that as I don't know what Dscho would be ok to
>> mentor.
>
> I am okay to mentor (except anything that touches submodules).

I am okay to mentor anything (preferrably submodules).

Thanks,
Stefan

>
> Ciao,
> Johannes

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Duy Nguyen]

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 10:02 PM, Matthieu Moy
<Matthieu.Moy@grenoble-inp.fr> wrote:
> * We need to write the application, i.e. essentially polish and update
>   the text here: https://git.github.io/SoC-2016-Org-Application/ and
>   update the list of project ideas and microprojects :
>   https://git.github.io/SoC-2017-Ideas/
>   https://git.github.io/SoC-2016-Microprojects/

Probably too late for GSoc 2017, but another idea for microproject (or
microprojects) is make use of dir-iterator.h more. For recursive
directory walking, this would make the code easier to read and
potentially avoid too deep recursion. There are three or four of them,
I think.
-- 
Duy

Re: GSoC 2017: application open, deadline = February 9, 2017

[Junio C Hamano]

Duy Nguyen <pclouds@gmail.com> writes:

> Probably too late for GSoc 2017, but another idea for microproject (or
> microprojects) is make use of dir-iterator.h more. For recursive
> directory walking, this would make the code easier to read and
> potentially avoid too deep recursion. There are three or four of them,
> I think.

Throw it on the microproject idea page anyway, as it is likely that
the leftover bits will be migrated to the page created for the next
year and that way we won't forget.