From: "Måns Rullgård" <mans@mansr.com> To: Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de> Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>, Matt Turner <mattst88@gmail.com>, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>, Alan Cox <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>, Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>, Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>, Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>, kernel list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>, "the arch\/x86 maintainers" <x86@kernel.org>, Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>, Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>, Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@cambridgegreys.com>, linux-alpha <linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org>, linux-m68k <linux-m68k@lists.linux-m68k.org> Subject: Re: [PATCH] x86: Deprecate a.out support Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 22:06:19 +0000 [thread overview] Message-ID: <yw1xwol52hic.fsf@mansr.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <CAK8P3a031d9mSOxVmCAGcrbdaCE8N3R4e2Smtxp-Z+cautTAvg@mail.gmail.com> (Arnd Bergmann's message of "Mon, 11 Mar 2019 22:34:26 +0100") Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de> writes: > On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 8:47 PM Måns Rullgård <mans@mansr.com> wrote: >> Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> writes: >> > On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 11:08 AM Måns Rullgård <mans@mansr.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> The latest version I have is 5.1, and that uses ECOFF. >> > >> > ECOFF _is_ a.out as far as Linux is concerned. >> > >> > So Linux basically treats ECOFF as "regular a.out with just some >> > header extensions". >> > >> > We don't have any specific support for ECOFF. >> > >> > I _think_. Again, it's been years and years. >> >> Right, which is why killing a.out entirely would have the unfortunate >> effect of also removing the OSF/1 compatibility on Alpha. >> >> If we are to support Alpha as an architecture at all, it makes sense to >> support the things people actually use it for. >> >> Now, personally I can live without it. I just don't like to see >> features removed without due consideration. > > The main historic use case I've heard of was running Netscape > Navigator on Alpha Linux, before there was an open source version. > Doing this today to connect to the open internet is probably > a bit pointless, but there may be other use cases. Once upon a time, I used it to run Matlab. > Looking at the system call table in the kernel > (arch/alpha/kernel/syscalls/syscall.tbl), we seem to support a > specific subset that was required for a set of applications, and > not much more. Old system calls (osf_old_open, osf_execve, > osf_old_sigaction) are listed but not implemented, and the same > is true for most of the later calls (osf_fuser, osf_sigsendset, > osf_waitid, osf_signal, ...), just the ones in the middle are there. > This would also indicate that it never really worked as a > general-purpose emulation layer but was only there for a specific > set of applications. It works for many applications, though I did have to add a few syscalls myself (yes, I sent patches). > Another data point I have is that osf1 emulation was broken > between linux-4.13 and linux-4.16 without anyone noticing, see > 47669fb6b595 ("alpha: osf_sys.c: fix put_tv32 regression"). That's interesting, but it doesn't mean nobody is using it. I tend to run the LTS branches and switch to a new one only once it seems to have settled a bit, so when 4.16 was released, I was probably still running 4.9. I don't think I'm the only one using this strategy. -- Måns Rullgård
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "Måns Rullgård" <mans@mansr.com> To: Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de> Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>, Matt Turner <mattst88@gmail.com>, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>, Alan Cox <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>, Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>, Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>, Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>, kernel list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>, the arch/x86 maintainers <x86@kernel.org>, Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>, Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>, Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>, Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@cambridgegreys.com>, linux-alpha <linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org>, linux-m68k <linux-m68k@lists.linux-m68k.org> Subject: Re: [PATCH] x86: Deprecate a.out support Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 22:06:19 +0000 [thread overview] Message-ID: <yw1xwol52hic.fsf@mansr.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <CAK8P3a031d9mSOxVmCAGcrbdaCE8N3R4e2Smtxp-Z+cautTAvg@mail.gmail.com> (Arnd Bergmann's message of "Mon, 11 Mar 2019 22:34:26 +0100") Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de> writes: > On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 8:47 PM Måns Rullgård <mans@mansr.com> wrote: >> Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> writes: >> > On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 11:08 AM Måns Rullgård <mans@mansr.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> The latest version I have is 5.1, and that uses ECOFF. >> > >> > ECOFF _is_ a.out as far as Linux is concerned. >> > >> > So Linux basically treats ECOFF as "regular a.out with just some >> > header extensions". >> > >> > We don't have any specific support for ECOFF. >> > >> > I _think_. Again, it's been years and years. >> >> Right, which is why killing a.out entirely would have the unfortunate >> effect of also removing the OSF/1 compatibility on Alpha. >> >> If we are to support Alpha as an architecture at all, it makes sense to >> support the things people actually use it for. >> >> Now, personally I can live without it. I just don't like to see >> features removed without due consideration. > > The main historic use case I've heard of was running Netscape > Navigator on Alpha Linux, before there was an open source version. > Doing this today to connect to the open internet is probably > a bit pointless, but there may be other use cases. Once upon a time, I used it to run Matlab. > Looking at the system call table in the kernel > (arch/alpha/kernel/syscalls/syscall.tbl), we seem to support a > specific subset that was required for a set of applications, and > not much more. Old system calls (osf_old_open, osf_execve, > osf_old_sigaction) are listed but not implemented, and the same > is true for most of the later calls (osf_fuser, osf_sigsendset, > osf_waitid, osf_signal, ...), just the ones in the middle are there. > This would also indicate that it never really worked as a > general-purpose emulation layer but was only there for a specific > set of applications. It works for many applications, though I did have to add a few syscalls myself (yes, I sent patches). > Another data point I have is that osf1 emulation was broken > between linux-4.13 and linux-4.16 without anyone noticing, see > 47669fb6b595 ("alpha: osf_sys.c: fix put_tv32 regression"). That's interesting, but it doesn't mean nobody is using it. I tend to run the LTS branches and switch to a new one only once it seems to have settled a bit, so when 4.16 was released, I was probably still running 4.9. I don't think I'm the only one using this strategy. -- Måns Rullgård
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-03-11 22:06 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 52+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2019-03-01 23:57 a.out coredumping: fix or delete? Jann Horn 2019-03-03 1:09 ` Andy Lutomirski 2019-03-05 9:19 ` Borislav Petkov 2019-03-05 12:22 ` Matthew Wilcox 2019-03-05 13:43 ` Alan Cox 2019-03-05 14:59 ` [PATCH] x86: Deprecate a.out support Borislav Petkov 2019-03-05 15:17 ` Richard Weinberger 2019-03-05 16:22 ` Linus Torvalds 2019-03-05 16:30 ` Jann Horn 2019-03-05 17:32 ` Borislav Petkov 2019-03-05 17:31 ` Borislav Petkov 2019-03-05 17:58 ` Linus Torvalds 2019-03-05 18:11 ` Borislav Petkov 2019-03-05 18:18 ` Borislav Petkov 2019-03-06 15:07 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2019-03-10 21:37 ` Matt Turner 2019-03-10 22:40 ` Linus Torvalds 2019-03-10 23:19 ` Al Viro 2019-03-11 7:20 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2019-03-11 11:02 ` Arnd Bergmann 2019-03-11 16:26 ` Måns Rullgård 2019-03-11 16:26 ` Måns Rullgård 2019-03-11 16:45 ` Linus Torvalds 2019-03-11 18:08 ` Måns Rullgård 2019-03-11 18:08 ` Måns Rullgård 2019-03-11 19:03 ` Linus Torvalds 2019-03-11 19:47 ` Måns Rullgård 2019-03-11 19:47 ` Måns Rullgård 2019-03-11 20:50 ` Matt Turner 2019-03-11 20:50 ` Matt Turner 2019-03-11 21:34 ` Arnd Bergmann 2019-03-11 21:34 ` Arnd Bergmann 2019-03-11 21:45 ` Linus Torvalds 2019-03-11 22:12 ` Måns Rullgård 2019-03-11 22:12 ` Måns Rullgård 2019-03-12 8:44 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2019-03-14 18:38 ` Miguel Ojeda 2019-03-14 18:38 ` Miguel Ojeda 2019-03-11 22:06 ` Måns Rullgård [this message] 2019-03-11 22:06 ` Måns Rullgård 2019-03-11 22:11 ` Matt Turner 2019-03-12 6:38 ` Michael Cree 2019-04-16 3:19 ` Jon Masters 2019-03-11 18:58 ` Matt Turner 2019-03-06 16:55 ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult 2019-03-06 17:52 ` [PATCH] fs: binfmt: mark aout as broken Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult 2019-03-06 12:25 ` a.out coredumping: fix or delete? Thomas Gleixner 2019-03-06 14:11 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o 2019-03-06 14:11 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o 2019-03-06 16:52 ` Alan Cox 2019-03-06 16:52 ` Alan Cox 2019-03-06 17:45 ` Andy Lutomirski
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