alsa-devel.alsa-project.org archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Dmitry Osipenko <digetx@gmail.com>
To: Sowjanya Komatineni <skomatineni@nvidia.com>,
	thierry.reding@gmail.com, jonathanh@nvidia.com,
	mperttunen@nvidia.com, sboyd@kernel.org, pdeschrijver@nvidia.com
Cc: mark.rutland@arm.com, alsa-devel@alsa-project.org,
	pgaikwad@nvidia.com, mturquette@baylibre.com,
	lgirdwood@gmail.com, josephl@nvidia.com,
	linux-clk@vger.kernel.org, arnd@arndb.de,
	daniel.lezcano@linaro.org, krzk@kernel.org, spujar@nvidia.com,
	devicetree@vger.kernel.org, mmaddireddy@nvidia.com,
	markz@nvidia.com, alexios.zavras@intel.com, robh+dt@kernel.org,
	tiwai@suse.com, linux-tegra@vger.kernel.org,
	horms+renesas@verge.net.au, tglx@linutronix.de,
	allison@lohutok.net, gregkh@linuxfoundation.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, vidyas@nvidia.com,
	Jisheng.Zhang@synaptics.com, broonie@kernel.org
Subject: Re: [alsa-devel] [PATCH v3 03/15] soc: tegra: Add Tegra PMC clock registrations into PMC driver
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 01:13:43 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <2ec3c1f1-228d-31a6-a432-fd39e91b2baa@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <56b7d160-6156-59e5-66ec-712d64e1927a@nvidia.com>

12.12.2019 06:54, Sowjanya Komatineni пишет:
> 
> On 12/11/19 7:45 PM, Sowjanya Komatineni wrote:
>>
>> On 12/11/19 5:39 PM, Dmitry Osipenko wrote:
>>> 11.12.2019 21:50, Sowjanya Komatineni пишет:
>>>> On 12/10/19 5:06 PM, Sowjanya Komatineni wrote:
>>>>> On 12/10/19 9:41 AM, Dmitry Osipenko wrote:
>>>>>> 10.12.2019 19:53, Sowjanya Komatineni пишет:
>>>>>>> On 12/9/19 3:03 PM, Sowjanya Komatineni wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 12/9/19 12:46 PM, Sowjanya Komatineni wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 12/9/19 12:12 PM, Dmitry Osipenko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 08.12.2019 00:36, Sowjanya Komatineni пишет:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/7/19 11:59 AM, Sowjanya Komatineni wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/7/19 8:00 AM, Dmitry Osipenko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 07.12.2019 18:53, Dmitry Osipenko пишет:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 07.12.2019 18:47, Dmitry Osipenko пишет:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 07.12.2019 17:28, Dmitry Osipenko пишет:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 06.12.2019 05:48, Sowjanya Komatineni пишет:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tegra210 and prior Tegra PMC has clk_out_1, clk_out_2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clk_out_3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mux and gate for each of these clocks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Currently these PMC clocks are registered by Tegra clock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> driver
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clk_register_mux and clk_register_gate by passing PMC base
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> address
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and register offsets and PMC programming for these clocks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through direct PMC access by the clock driver.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With this, when PMC is in secure mode any direct PMC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-secure world does not go through and these clocks will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> functional.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This patch adds these clocks registration with PMC as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provider
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for these clocks. clk_ops callback implementations for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clocks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> uses tegra_pmc_readl and tegra_pmc_writel which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports PMC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> programming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in secure mode and non-secure mode.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Signed-off-by: Sowjanya Komatineni
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <skomatineni@nvidia.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +static const struct clk_ops pmc_clk_gate_ops = {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +    .is_enabled = pmc_clk_is_enabled,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +    .enable = pmc_clk_enable,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +    .disable = pmc_clk_disable,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +};
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's the benefit of separating GATE from the MUX?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it could be a single clock.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to TRM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. GATE and MUX are separate entities.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. GATE is the parent of MUX (see PMC's CLK_OUT paths
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> diagram
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in TRM).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. PMC doesn't gate EXTPERIPH clock but could "force-enable"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct?
>>>>>>>>>>> Was following existing clk-tegra-pmc as I am not sure of
>>>>>>>>>>> reason for
>>>>>>>>>>> having these clocks registered as separate mux and gate clocks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, PMC clocks can be registered as single clock and can use
>>>>>>>>>>> clk_ops
>>>>>>>>>>> for set/get parent and enable/disable.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> enable/disable of PMC clocks is for force-enable to force the
>>>>>>>>>>> clock to
>>>>>>>>>>> run regardless of ACCEPT_REQ or INVERT_REQ.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. clk_m_div2/4 are internal PMC OSC dividers and thus these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clocks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should belong to PMC.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, it should be "osc" and not "clk_m".
>>>>>>>>>>>> I followed the same parents as it were in existing
>>>>>>>>>>>> clk-tegra-pmc
>>>>>>>>>>>> driver.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah they are wrong and they should be from osc and not clk_m.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Will fix in next version.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Reg clk_m_div2/3, they are dividers at OSC pad and not really
>>>>>>>> internal
>>>>>>>> to PMC block.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> current clock driver creates clk_m_div clocks which should
>>>>>>>> actually be
>>>>>>>> osc_div2/osc_div4 clocks with osc as parent.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are no clk_m_div2 and clk_m_div4 from clk_m
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Will fix this in next version.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Could you please describe the full EXTPERIPH clock topology and
>>>>>>>>>> how the
>>>>>>>>>> pinmux configuration is related to it all?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What is internal to the Tegra chip and what are the external
>>>>>>>>>> outputs?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is it possible to bypass PMC on T30+ for the EXTPERIPH clocks?
>>>>>>>>> PMC CLK1/2/3 possible sources are OSC_DIV1, OSC_DIV2, OSC_DIV4,
>>>>>>>>> EXTPERIPH from CAR.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OSC_DIV1/2/4 are with internal dividers at the OSC Pads
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> EXTPERIPH is from CAR and it has reset and enable controls
>>>>>>>>> along with
>>>>>>>>> clock source selections to choose one of the PLLA_OUT0, CLK_S,
>>>>>>>>> PLLP_OUT0, CLK_M, PLLE_OUT0
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, PMC CLK1/2/4 possible parents are OSC_DIV1, OSC_DIV2,
>>>>>>>>> OSC_DIV4,
>>>>>>>>> EXTERN.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> CLK1/2/3 also has Pinmux to route EXTPERIPH output on to these
>>>>>>>>> pins.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When EXTERN output clock is selected for these PMC clocks thru
>>>>>>>>> CLKx_SRC_SEL, output clock is from driver by EXTPERIPH from CAR
>>>>>>>>> via
>>>>>>>>> Pinmux logic or driven as per CLKx_SRC_SEL bypassing pinmux
>>>>>>>>> based on
>>>>>>>>> CLKx_ACCEPT_REQ bit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PMC Clock control register has bit CLKx_ACCEPT_REQ
>>>>>>>>> When CLKx_ACCEPT_REQ = 0, output clock driver is from by EXTPERIPH
>>>>>>>>> through the pinmux
>>>>>>>>> When CLKx_ACCEPT_REQ = 1, output clock is based on CLKx_SRC_SEL
>>>>>>>>> bits
>>>>>>>>> (OSC_DIV1/2/4 and EXTPERIPH clock bypassing the pinmux)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> FORCE_EN bit in PMC CLock control register forces the clock to run
>>>>>>>>> regardless of this.
>>>>>>> PMC clock gate is based on the state of CLKx_ACCEPT_REQ and FORCE_EN
>>>>>>> like explained above.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CLKx_ACCEPT_REQ is 0 default and FORCE_EN acts as gate to
>>>>>>> enable/disable
>>>>>>> EXTPERIPH clock output to PMC CLK_OUT_1/2/3.
>>>>>> [and to enable OSC as well]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I believe we need to register as MUX and Gate rather than as a
>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>> clock. Please confirm.
>>>>>> 1. The force-enabling is applied to both OSC and EXTERN sources of
>>>>>> PMC_CLK_OUT_x by PMC at once.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Both of PMC's force-enabling and OSC/EXTERN selection is internal
>>>>>> to PMC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Should be better to define it as a single "pmc_clk_out_x". I don't
>>>>>> see
>>>>>> any good reasons for differentiating PMC's Gate from the MUX, it's a
>>>>>> single hardware unit from a point of view of the rest of the system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter, do you have any objections?
>>>>> We added fallback option for audio mclk and also added check for
>>>>> assigned-clock-parents dt property in audio driver and if its not then
>>>>> we do parent init configuration in audio driver.
>>>>>
>>>>> Current clock driver creates 2 separate clocks clk_out_1_mux and
>>>>> clk_out_1 for each pmc clock in clock driver and uses extern1 as
>>>>> parent to clk_out_1_mux and clk_out_1_mux is parent to clk_out_1.
>>>>>
>>>>> With change of registering each pmc clock as a single clock, when we
>>>>> do parent init assignment in audio driver when
>>>>> assigned-clock-properties are not used in DT (as we removed parent
>>>>> inits for extern and clk_outs from clock driver), we should still try
>>>>> to get clock based on clk_out_1_mux as parent assignment of extern1 is
>>>>> for clk_out_1_mux as per existing clock tree.
>>>>>
>>>>> clk_out_1_mux clock retrieve will fail with this change of single
>>>>> clock when any new platform device tree doesn't specify
>>>>> assigned-clock-parents properties and tegra_asoc_utils_init fails.
>>> You made the PMC/CaR changes before the audio changes, the clk_out_1_mux
>>> won't exist for the audio driver patches.
>>>
>>> If you care about bisect-ability of the patches, then the clock and
>>> audio changes need to be done in a single patch. But I don't think that
>>> it's worthwhile.
>>>
>>>>> With single clock, extern1 is the parent for clk_out_1 and with
>>>>> separate clocks for mux and gate, extern1 is the parent for
>>>>> clk_out_1_mux.
>>>> If we move to single clock now, it need one more additional fallback
>>>> implementation in audio driver during parent configuration as
>>>> clk_out_1_mux will not be there with single clock change and
>>>> old/current
>>>> kernel has it as it uses separate clocks for pmc mux and gate.
>>> Why additional fallback? Additional to what?
>>>
>>>> Also, with single clock for both PMC mux and gate now, new DT should
>>>> use
>>>> extern1 as parent to CLK_OUT_1 as CLK_OUT_1_MUX will not be there old
>>>> PMC dt-bindings has separate clocks for MUX (CLK_OUT_1_MUX) and gate
>>>> (CLK_OUT_1)
>>>>
>>>> DT bindings will not be compatible b/w old and new changes if we
>>>> move to
>>>> Single PMC clock now.
>>> Sorry, I don't understand what you're meaning by the "new changes".
>>>
>>>> Should we go with same separate clocks to have it compatible to avoid
>>>> all this?
>>>>
>> The reason we added mclk fallback and also for doing parent
>> configuration based on presence of assigned-clock-parents property is
>> to have old dt compatible with new kernel and also to have new dt
>> compatible with old kernel.
>>
>> So the point I was mentioning is to have new DT to work with old
>> kernel, setting extern1 as parent to clk_out_1 (with single pmc clock)
>> through assigned-clock-parents in DT will fail as old kernel has mux
>> and gate as separate clocks and parent configuration is for mux clock
>> (clk_out_1_mux)
>>
> Sorry never mind, with old kernel clock driver does all parent
> configuration so should be ok. So no additional fallbacks are needed
> except to the one we already added.
> 
> OK, So its just that changes are slightly more to switch to single clock
> compared to using separate clocks as gate clk_ops (which are needed
> anyway for blink control) of clock enable and disable can't be used for
> clk_out_1 enable/disable and need additional clk_enable and disable
> callbacks.
> 
> Will make changes to use single clock..

Please wait for the Peter's reply.
_______________________________________________
Alsa-devel mailing list
Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
https://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel

  parent reply	other threads:[~2019-12-13  7:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 50+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-12-06  2:48 [alsa-devel] [PATCH v3 00/15] Move PMC clocks into Tegra PMC driver Sowjanya Komatineni
2019-12-06  2:48 ` [alsa-devel] [PATCH v3 01/15] dt-bindings: soc: tegra-pmc: Add Tegra PMC clock bindings Sowjanya Komatineni
2019-12-06 18:58   ` Michał Mirosław
2019-12-06  2:48 ` [alsa-devel] [PATCH v3 02/15] dt-bindings: tegra: Convert Tegra PMC bindings to YAML Sowjanya Komatineni
2019-12-06  2:48 ` [alsa-devel] [PATCH v3 03/15] soc: tegra: Add Tegra PMC clock registrations into PMC driver Sowjanya Komatineni
2019-12-07 14:28   ` Dmitry Osipenko
2019-12-07 15:47     ` Dmitry Osipenko
2019-12-07 15:53       ` Dmitry Osipenko
2019-12-07 16:00         ` Dmitry Osipenko
     [not found]           ` <78644d45-2ae3-121f-99fc-0a46f205907d@nvidia.com>
     [not found]             ` <b35916e1-c6ee-52ca-9111-5ae109437b6e@nvidia.com>
2019-12-09 20:12               ` Dmitry Osipenko
     [not found]                 ` <ee1d39d4-9a57-da9b-fce6-8130dac1d2fd@nvidia.com>
2019-12-10 17:41                   ` Dmitry Osipenko
     [not found]                     ` <22a2f8bd-561d-f4c6-4eef-bb61095c53b2@nvidia.com>
2019-12-10 18:30                       ` Dmitry Osipenko
     [not found]                         ` <302d8483-513c-9c20-e4d4-1e24f2b317d6@nvidia.com>
2019-12-10 20:31                           ` Dmitry Osipenko
     [not found]                   ` <49da77dc-b346-68eb-9ef8-42cfb3221489@nvidia.com>
     [not found]                     ` <3f1c9325-3017-62be-1e3b-82fd28540fdf@nvidia.com>
2019-12-10 17:41                       ` Dmitry Osipenko
2019-12-11 15:10                         ` Peter De Schrijver
2019-12-12  1:43                           ` Dmitry Osipenko
2019-12-16 12:20                             ` Peter De Schrijver
2019-12-16 14:23                               ` Dmitry Osipenko
2019-12-16 15:11                                 ` Peter De Schrijver
2019-12-16 15:24                                   ` Peter De Schrijver
2019-12-16 15:49                                     ` Dmitry Osipenko
     [not found]                         ` <8eb792ad-cded-05cc-93fc-763be7ee66aa@nvidia.com>
     [not found]                           ` <bb966cf2-50f6-6729-7644-54d71d55bbcb@nvidia.com>
2019-12-12  1:39                             ` Dmitry Osipenko
     [not found]                               ` <01bf40ae-393d-3cb1-9ba2-acdd10385cb8@nvidia.com>
     [not found]                                 ` <56b7d160-6156-59e5-66ec-712d64e1927a@nvidia.com>
2019-12-12 22:13                                   ` Dmitry Osipenko [this message]
2019-12-06  2:48 ` [alsa-devel] [PATCH v3 04/15] dt-bindings: soc: tegra-pmc: Add id for Tegra PMC blink control Sowjanya Komatineni
2019-12-06  2:48 ` [alsa-devel] [PATCH v3 05/15] soc: pmc: Add blink output clock registration to Tegra PMC Sowjanya Komatineni
2019-12-06  2:48 ` [alsa-devel] [PATCH v3 06/15] clk: tegra: Remove tegra_pmc_clk_init along with clk ids Sowjanya Komatineni
2019-12-07 14:33   ` Dmitry Osipenko
2019-12-07 14:43     ` Dmitry Osipenko
2019-12-07 15:04       ` Dmitry Osipenko
     [not found]         ` <c81ccd45-781e-0fce-4f20-65281b8c6119@nvidia.com>
2019-12-07 23:24           ` Dmitry Osipenko
2019-12-06  2:48 ` [alsa-devel] [PATCH v3 07/15] dt-bindings: clock: tegra: Remove pmc clock ids from clock dt-bindings Sowjanya Komatineni
2019-12-06  2:48 ` [alsa-devel] [PATCH v3 08/15] ASoC: tegra: Add audio mclk control through clk_out_1 and extern1 Sowjanya Komatineni
2019-12-07 14:58   ` Dmitry Osipenko
     [not found]     ` <2eeceabe-b5f0-6f9e-ff8c-4ac6167b7cc3@nvidia.com>
2019-12-09 20:06       ` Dmitry Osipenko
     [not found]         ` <79661e2f-dcd4-6dd5-9b4d-9dcc40de478a@nvidia.com>
2019-12-09 23:12           ` Dmitry Osipenko
     [not found]       ` <41a7325c-9bb9-f681-4d30-d19079869d12@nvidia.com>
2019-12-17 15:36         ` Dmitry Osipenko
     [not found]           ` <fc491006-a316-5910-acb1-659c768b1038@nvidia.com>
2019-12-17 16:16             ` Dmitry Osipenko
     [not found]               ` <8fabffb2-f03a-dccb-94b6-4db16604f57d@nvidia.com>
2019-12-17 16:46                 ` Dmitry Osipenko
2019-12-06  2:48 ` [alsa-devel] [PATCH v3 09/15] ASoC: tegra: Add fallback for audio mclk Sowjanya Komatineni
2019-12-06 17:49   ` Sowjanya Komatineni
2019-12-06 17:56     ` Greg KH
2019-12-09 16:40   ` Mark Brown
2019-12-09 20:31     ` Dmitry Osipenko
2019-12-09 20:47       ` Mark Brown
2019-12-10 18:24         ` Dmitry Osipenko
2019-12-10 18:59           ` Mark Brown
2019-12-12  2:17             ` Dmitry Osipenko
2019-12-06  2:48 ` [alsa-devel] [PATCH v3 10/15] clk: tegra: Remove extern1 and cdev1 from clocks inittable Sowjanya Komatineni
2019-12-06  2:48 ` [alsa-devel] [PATCH v3 11/15] ARM: dts: tegra: Add clock-cells property to pmc Sowjanya Komatineni
2019-12-07 14:26 ` [alsa-devel] [PATCH v3 00/15] Move PMC clocks into Tegra PMC driver Dmitry Osipenko

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=2ec3c1f1-228d-31a6-a432-fd39e91b2baa@gmail.com \
    --to=digetx@gmail.com \
    --cc=Jisheng.Zhang@synaptics.com \
    --cc=alexios.zavras@intel.com \
    --cc=allison@lohutok.net \
    --cc=alsa-devel@alsa-project.org \
    --cc=arnd@arndb.de \
    --cc=broonie@kernel.org \
    --cc=daniel.lezcano@linaro.org \
    --cc=devicetree@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=gregkh@linuxfoundation.org \
    --cc=horms+renesas@verge.net.au \
    --cc=jonathanh@nvidia.com \
    --cc=josephl@nvidia.com \
    --cc=krzk@kernel.org \
    --cc=lgirdwood@gmail.com \
    --cc=linux-clk@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-tegra@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=mark.rutland@arm.com \
    --cc=markz@nvidia.com \
    --cc=mmaddireddy@nvidia.com \
    --cc=mperttunen@nvidia.com \
    --cc=mturquette@baylibre.com \
    --cc=pdeschrijver@nvidia.com \
    --cc=pgaikwad@nvidia.com \
    --cc=robh+dt@kernel.org \
    --cc=sboyd@kernel.org \
    --cc=skomatineni@nvidia.com \
    --cc=spujar@nvidia.com \
    --cc=tglx@linutronix.de \
    --cc=thierry.reding@gmail.com \
    --cc=tiwai@suse.com \
    --cc=vidyas@nvidia.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).