* Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Packet-Loss-Peaks in a Freifunk-Network
@ 2013-01-03 15:00 Marek Lindner
2013-01-03 15:52 ` Jan Lühr
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Marek Lindner @ 2013-01-03 15:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc Networking
Cc: Bonn und Umgebung Allgemeine Mailingliste zum Freifunk Köln
On Thursday, January 03, 2013 22:16:32 Jan Lühr wrote:
> We noticed a few, unusual things:
> -> regardless of the link tested (kif or fastd3) and regardless of the node
> (node1, node2) small interruptions (loss-peaks) are appearing. -> These
> peaks appear almost synchronous, a few "noise" comes from different
> vpn-links and node-wan-uplinks. -> Since all links are wired, radio-noise
> won't have an impact
> -> The losses appear in batman-adv 2011.2.0 as well as in batman-adv
> 2012.4.0. Thus I suspect that batman-adv is triggering theses
> interruptions.
If you believe batman-adv is the culprit, please remove batman-adv from your
test setup and repeat the exact same test. Otherwise we move into the realm of
speculation.
Haven't heard of any "peak loss" due to batman-adv.
Cheers,
Marek
PS: Forgot to click "reply to all", sorry for that.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Packet-Loss-Peaks in a Freifunk-Network
2013-01-03 15:00 [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Packet-Loss-Peaks in a Freifunk-Network Marek Lindner
@ 2013-01-03 15:52 ` Jan Lühr
2013-01-03 16:05 ` Marek Lindner
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Jan Lühr @ 2013-01-03 15:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc Networking
Hello,
Am 03.01.2013 um 16:00 schrieb Marek Lindner:
> On Thursday, January 03, 2013 22:16:32 Jan Lühr wrote:
>> We noticed a few, unusual things:
>> -> regardless of the link tested (kif or fastd3) and regardless of the node
>> (node1, node2) small interruptions (loss-peaks) are appearing. -> These
>> peaks appear almost synchronous, a few "noise" comes from different
>> vpn-links and node-wan-uplinks. -> Since all links are wired, radio-noise
>> won't have an impact
>> -> The losses appear in batman-adv 2011.2.0 as well as in batman-adv
>> 2012.4.0. Thus I suspect that batman-adv is triggering theses
>> interruptions.
>
> If you believe batman-adv is the culprit, please remove batman-adv from your
> test setup and repeat the exact same test. Otherwise we move into the realm of
> speculation.
Well, I started echoing on the underlying VPN-connection as well and changed the chart-titles for clearance:
In chart 4 and chart 5 RTT / Loss from kif.kbu to node-1 is measured.
In chart 4 kif is sending ICMPv6 to the link-local address of bat0-interface - in chart 5 the link_local address of the underlying vpn-interface is used.
The loss-peaks appear in char 4 (bat0) only.
Thanks for your help,
Keep smiling
yanosz
>
> PS: Forgot to click "reply to all", sorry for that.
Well, I set it f2up this list, since you're node subscribed. Sorry for not mentioning it.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Packet-Loss-Peaks in a Freifunk-Network
2013-01-03 15:52 ` Jan Lühr
@ 2013-01-03 16:05 ` Marek Lindner
2013-01-03 16:17 ` Jan Lühr
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Marek Lindner @ 2013-01-03 16:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc Networking
On Thursday, January 03, 2013 23:52:42 Jan Lühr wrote:
> Well, I started echoing on the underlying VPN-connection as well and
> changed the chart-titles for clearance:
>
> In chart 4 and chart 5 RTT / Loss from kif.kbu to node-1 is measured.
> In chart 4 kif is sending ICMPv6 to the link-local address of
> bat0-interface - in chart 5 the link_local address of the underlying
> vpn-interface is used.
All tests are from the same node to the same node using exactly the same means
(protocols, etc) with the exception of batman-adv ? Sorry for my dumb question
but your topology might be obvious to you but isn't for me (us?).
The spikes on your graphs show the packet loss ? How can we have a RTT < 50ms
while experiencing packet loss ?
Cheers,
Marek
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Packet-Loss-Peaks in a Freifunk-Network
2013-01-03 16:05 ` Marek Lindner
@ 2013-01-03 16:17 ` Jan Lühr
2013-01-04 5:34 ` "Linus Lüssing"
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Jan Lühr @ 2013-01-03 16:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc Networking
Hello,
Am 03.01.2013 um 17:05 schrieb Marek Lindner:
> On Thursday, January 03, 2013 23:52:42 Jan Lühr wrote:
>> Well, I started echoing on the underlying VPN-connection as well and
>> changed the chart-titles for clearance:
>>
>> In chart 4 and chart 5 RTT / Loss from kif.kbu to node-1 is measured.
>> In chart 4 kif is sending ICMPv6 to the link-local address of
>> bat0-interface - in chart 5 the link_local address of the underlying
>> vpn-interface is used.
>
> All tests are from the same node to the same node using exactly the same means
> (protocols, etc) with the exception of batman-adv ? Sorry for my dumb question
> but your topology might be obvious to you but isn't for me (us?).
yes.
>
> The spikes on your graphs show the packet loss ?
yes.
> How can we have a RTT < 50ms
> while experiencing packet loss ?
Collectd uses a ping rate of 10 seconds here, RTT >= 0.9s = 900ms is "loss"
If 1/3 arrives in < 50ms and 2/3 are lost, RTT is < 50ms while loss = 2/3.
Btw. I you wanna see our setup, we can take a tour via ssh / tmux - I can provide the rrd-Files, too.
You can contact my by jabber (yanosz@jabber.ccc.de) as well,
Thanks,
Keep smiling
yanosz
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Packet-Loss-Peaks in a Freifunk-Network
2013-01-03 16:17 ` Jan Lühr
@ 2013-01-04 5:34 ` "Linus Lüssing"
2013-01-04 10:18 ` Jan Lühr
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: "Linus Lüssing" @ 2013-01-04 5:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc Networking
Cc: The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc Networking
What were the exact batman-adv versions at the time you made those graphs for the shown nodes as well as any intermediate nodes (although if I got your setup right then the nodes in those graphs do not have any intermediate batman-adv hops involved, do they?)?
Does it make a difference if you make the entries in the neighbor solicitation table permanent (e.g. with 'ip -6 neigh')?
Do the same spikes appear with a 'batctl ping' (or if adding such graphs is quite a hassle then at least, is the overall 'batctl ping' packet loss similar to the one from the ip ping)?
Do you see any "Changing route towards" events in the batman-adv logs between these supposedly always direct neighbors - if yes, maybe with a similar frequency? Or even better, check whether the same packet loss appears when isolating any of such pairs of nodes so that no batman-adv route changes could happen at all.
Do these packet loss events correlate with periods of high OGM loss (e.g. check for high last-seen values in the originator table)?
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 03. Januar 2013 um 17:17 Uhr
> Von: "Jan Lühr" <ff@stephan.homeunix.net>
> An: "The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc Networking" <b.a.t.m.a.n@lists.open-mesh.org>
> Betreff: Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Packet-Loss-Peaks in a Freifunk-Network
>
> Hello,
>
> Am 03.01.2013 um 17:05 schrieb Marek Lindner:
>
> > On Thursday, January 03, 2013 23:52:42 Jan Lühr wrote:
> >> Well, I started echoing on the underlying VPN-connection as well and
> >> changed the chart-titles for clearance:
> >>
> >> In chart 4 and chart 5 RTT / Loss from kif.kbu to node-1 is measured.
> >> In chart 4 kif is sending ICMPv6 to the link-local address of
> >> bat0-interface - in chart 5 the link_local address of the underlying
> >> vpn-interface is used.
> >
> > All tests are from the same node to the same node using exactly the same means
> > (protocols, etc) with the exception of batman-adv ? Sorry for my dumb question
> > but your topology might be obvious to you but isn't for me (us?).
>
> yes.
>
> >
> > The spikes on your graphs show the packet loss ?
>
> yes.
>
> > How can we have a RTT < 50ms
> > while experiencing packet loss ?
>
>
> Collectd uses a ping rate of 10 seconds here, RTT >= 0.9s = 900ms is "loss"
> If 1/3 arrives in < 50ms and 2/3 are lost, RTT is < 50ms while loss = 2/3.
>
> Btw. I you wanna see our setup, we can take a tour via ssh / tmux - I can provide the rrd-Files, too.
> You can contact my by jabber (yanosz@jabber.ccc.de) as well,
>
> Thanks,
> Keep smiling
> yanosz
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Packet-Loss-Peaks in a Freifunk-Network
2013-01-04 5:34 ` "Linus Lüssing"
@ 2013-01-04 10:18 ` Jan Lühr
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Jan Lühr @ 2013-01-04 10:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc Networking
Hi Linus,
nice to hear from you again.
Am 04.01.2013 um 06:34 schrieb Linus Lüssing:
> What were the exact batman-adv versions at the time you made those graphs for the shown nodes as well as any intermediate nodes (although if I got your setup right then the nodes in those graphs do not have any intermediate batman-adv hops involved, do they?)?
>
> Does it make a difference if you make the entries in the neighbor solicitation table permanent (e.g. with 'ip -6 neigh')?
>
> Do the same spikes appear with a 'batctl ping' (or if adding such graphs is quite a hassle then at least, is the overall 'batctl ping' packet loss similar to the one from the ip ping)?
>
> Do you see any "Changing route towards" events in the batman-adv logs between these supposedly always direct neighbors - if yes, maybe with a similar frequency? Or even better, check whether the same packet loss appears when isolating any of such pairs of nodes so that no batman-adv route changes could happen at all.
>
For some reason, the spikes disappeared around midnight - and I don't know why.
Maybe batman-adv converged to a different plan (or converged at all) or the Flying Spaghetti Monster our network to work nowadays.
I'll go one inspecting this issue, but I cannot answer any of your questions. :-(
Keep smiling
yanosz
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Packet-Loss-Peaks in a Freifunk-Network
2013-01-03 14:16 Jan Lühr
@ 2013-01-03 14:46 ` Marek Lindner
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Marek Lindner @ 2013-01-03 14:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc Networking
On Thursday, January 03, 2013 22:16:32 Jan Lühr wrote:
> We noticed a few, unusual things:
> -> regardless of the link tested (kif or fastd3) and regardless of the node
> (node1, node2) small interruptions (loss-peaks) are appearing. -> These
> peaks appear almost synchronous, a few "noise" comes from different
> vpn-links and node-wan-uplinks. -> Since all links are wired, radio-noise
> won't have an impact
> -> The losses appear in batman-adv 2011.2.0 as well as in batman-adv
> 2012.4.0. Thus I suspect that batman-adv is triggering theses
> interruptions.
If you believe batman-adv is the culprit, please remove batman-adv from your
test setup and repeat the exact same test. Otherwise we move into the realm of
speculation.
Haven't heard of any "peak loss" due to batman-adv.
Cheers,
Marek
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Packet-Loss-Peaks in a Freifunk-Network
@ 2013-01-03 14:16 Jan Lühr
2013-01-03 14:46 ` Marek Lindner
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Jan Lühr @ 2013-01-03 14:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc Networking
Cc: Bonn und Umgebung Allgemeine Mailingliste zum Freifunk Köln
Hello folks,
we spent some effort in measuring the stability on our freifunk-network.
The networt itself consists of two networks.
- Tinc-VPN, batman-adv 2011.2.0
- fastd-VPN, batman-adv 2012.4.0
The fastd-network has two gateways (kif and fastd3) and two nodes. Each node is connected to both gateways. (Example output of batctl o see below)
Please take a look at:
http://kbu.freifunk.net/index.php?title=Statistik#Ping_innerhalb_des_Freifunknetz
While the first chart shows the stability of a node connected directly via tincy, the later ones use fastd.
- Chart 2 shows kif -> node1
- Chart 3 shows fastd3 -> node1
- Chart 4 shows kif -> node2
We noticed a few, unusual things:
-> regardless of the link tested (kif or fastd3) and regardless of the node (node1, node2) small interruptions (loss-peaks) are appearing.
-> These peaks appear almost synchronous, a few "noise" comes from different vpn-links and node-wan-uplinks.
-> Since all links are wired, radio-noise won't have an impact
-> The losses appear in batman-adv 2011.2.0 as well as in batman-adv 2012.4.0.
Thus I suspect that batman-adv is triggering theses interruptions.
Have you notice same problems in past? Is there a way to fix these outages?
Thanks,
Keep smiling
yanosz
# batctl o
[B.A.T.M.A.N. adv 2012.4.0, MainIF/MAC: wlan0-1/b2:48:7a:cb:2d:59 (bat0)]
Originator last-seen (#/255) Nexthop [outgoingIF]: Potential nexthops ...
vpn3 0.130s (255) vpn3 [ mesh-vpn]: kif (198) vpn3 (255)
kif 0.280s (255) kif [ mesh-vpn]: vpn3 ( 0) kif (255)
node1 2.700s (225) kif [ mesh-vpn]: kif (225) vpn3 (225)
node2 3.110s (223) kif [ mesh-vpn]: kif (223) vpn3 (225)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
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2013-01-03 15:00 [B.A.T.M.A.N.] Packet-Loss-Peaks in a Freifunk-Network Marek Lindner
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2013-01-03 16:05 ` Marek Lindner
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