From: Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org>
To: Daniel Borkmann <daniel@iogearbox.net>
Cc: "Toke Høiland-Jørgensen" <toke@redhat.com>,
"Alexei Starovoitov" <alexei.starovoitov@gmail.com>,
"Hangbin Liu" <haliu@redhat.com>,
"David Ahern" <dsahern@gmail.com>,
"Andrii Nakryiko" <andrii.nakryiko@gmail.com>,
"Stephen Hemminger" <stephen@networkplumber.org>,
"Alexei Starovoitov" <ast@kernel.org>,
"Martin KaFai Lau" <kafai@fb.com>,
"Song Liu" <songliubraving@fb.com>, "Yonghong Song" <yhs@fb.com>,
"David Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
"Jesper Dangaard Brouer" <brouer@redhat.com>,
Networking <netdev@vger.kernel.org>, bpf <bpf@vger.kernel.org>,
"Jiri Benc" <jbenc@redhat.com>,
"Andrii Nakryiko" <andrii@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCHv3 iproute2-next 0/5] iproute2: add libbpf support
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 11:17:39 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20201104111708.0595e2a3@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5de7eb11-010b-e66e-c72d-07ece638c25e@iogearbox.net>
On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 14:12:47 +0100 Daniel Borkmann wrote:
> If we would have done lib/bpf.c as a dynamic library back then, we wouldn't be
> where we are today since users might be able to start consuming BPF functionality
> just now, don't you agree? This was an explicit design choice back then for exactly
> this reason. If we extend lib/bpf.c or import libbpf one way or another then there
> is consistency across distros and users would be able to consume it in a predictable
> way starting from next major releases. And you could start making this assumption
> on all major distros in say, 3 months from now. The discussion is somehow focused
> on the PoV of /a/ distro which is all nice and good, but the ones consuming the
> loader shipping software /across/ distros are users writing BPF progs, all I'm
> trying to say is that the _user experience_ should be the focus of this discussion
> and right now we're trying hard making it rather painful for them to consume it.
IIUC you're saying that we cannot depend on libbpf updates from distro.
Isn't that a pretty bad experience for all users who would like to link
against it? There are 4 components (kernel, lib, tools, compiler) all
need to be kept up to date for optimal user experience. Cutting corners
with one of them leads nowhere medium term IMHO.
Unless what you guys are saying is that libbpf is _not_ supposed to be
backward compatible from the user side, and must be used a submodule.
But then why bother defining ABI versions, or build it as an .so at all.
I'm also confused by the testing argument. Surely the solution is to
add unit / system tests for iproute2. Distros will rebuild packages
when dependencies change and retest. If we have 0 tests doesn't matter
what update strategy there is.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-11-04 19:17 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 167+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-10-23 3:38 [PATCH iproute2-next 0/5] iproute2: add libbpf support Hangbin Liu
2020-10-23 3:38 ` [PATCH iproute2-next 1/5] configure: add check_libbpf() for later " Hangbin Liu
2020-10-23 3:38 ` [PATCH iproute2-next 2/5] lib: rename bpf.c to bpf_legacy.c Hangbin Liu
2020-10-23 3:38 ` [PATCH iproute2-next 3/5] lib: add libbpf support Hangbin Liu
2020-10-23 14:34 ` David Ahern
2020-10-25 15:13 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2020-10-25 22:12 ` David Ahern
2020-10-26 8:56 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-10-26 15:15 ` David Ahern
2020-10-27 2:58 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-10-24 0:21 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-10-25 15:11 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2020-10-26 8:10 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-10-23 3:38 ` [PATCH iproute2-next 4/5] examples/bpf: move struct bpf_elf_map defined maps to legacy folder Hangbin Liu
2020-10-23 3:38 ` [PATCH iproute2-next 5/5] examples/bpf: add bpf examples with BTF defined maps Hangbin Liu
2020-10-28 13:25 ` [PATCHv2 iproute2-next 0/5] iproute2: add libbpf support Hangbin Liu
2020-10-28 13:25 ` [PATCHv2 iproute2-next 1/5] configure: add check_libbpf() for later " Hangbin Liu
2020-10-28 13:25 ` [PATCHv2 iproute2-next 2/5] lib: rename bpf.c to bpf_legacy.c Hangbin Liu
2020-10-28 13:25 ` [PATCHv2 iproute2-next 3/5] lib: add libbpf support Hangbin Liu
2020-10-28 13:25 ` [PATCHv2 iproute2-next 4/5] examples/bpf: move struct bpf_elf_map defined maps to legacy folder Hangbin Liu
2020-10-28 13:25 ` [PATCHv2 iproute2-next 5/5] examples/bpf: add bpf examples with BTF defined maps Hangbin Liu
2020-10-28 21:17 ` [PATCHv2 iproute2-next 0/5] iproute2: add libbpf support Alexei Starovoitov
2020-10-28 23:02 ` David Ahern
2020-10-29 2:06 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-10-29 2:20 ` David Ahern
2020-10-29 2:45 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-10-29 3:00 ` David Ahern
2020-10-29 3:17 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-10-29 10:26 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-10-29 10:51 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2020-10-29 2:27 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-10-29 2:33 ` David Ahern
2020-10-29 2:46 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-10-29 2:34 ` Stephen Hemminger
2020-10-29 2:50 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-10-29 11:38 ` Jesper Dangaard Brouer
2020-10-29 20:30 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-10-29 2:33 ` Stephen Hemminger
2020-10-29 15:11 ` [PATCHv3 " Hangbin Liu
2020-10-29 15:11 ` [PATCHv3 iproute2-next 1/5] configure: add check_libbpf() for later " Hangbin Liu
2020-10-29 15:26 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2020-11-02 15:37 ` David Ahern
2020-11-03 5:54 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-11-03 17:32 ` David Ahern
2020-11-04 8:51 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-11-04 11:09 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2020-11-04 11:40 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-10-29 15:11 ` [PATCHv3 iproute2-next 2/5] lib: rename bpf.c to bpf_legacy.c Hangbin Liu
2020-10-29 15:11 ` [PATCHv3 iproute2-next 3/5] lib: add libbpf support Hangbin Liu
2020-11-02 15:41 ` David Ahern
2020-11-03 5:48 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-11-03 17:19 ` David Ahern
2020-11-04 8:22 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-11-05 2:33 ` David Ahern
2020-11-05 7:51 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-11-05 15:25 ` David Ahern
2020-11-05 15:57 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2020-11-05 16:02 ` David Ahern
2020-11-06 0:56 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-11-06 0:41 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-10-29 15:11 ` [PATCHv3 iproute2-next 4/5] examples/bpf: move struct bpf_elf_map defined maps to legacy folder Hangbin Liu
2020-10-29 15:11 ` [PATCHv3 iproute2-next 5/5] examples/bpf: add bpf examples with BTF defined maps Hangbin Liu
2020-11-02 15:47 ` [PATCHv3 iproute2-next 0/5] iproute2: add libbpf support David Ahern
2020-11-03 6:58 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-11-03 8:42 ` Jiri Benc
2020-11-03 17:45 ` David Ahern
2020-11-03 17:48 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-03 8:46 ` Daniel Borkmann
2020-11-03 17:35 ` David Ahern
2020-11-03 17:47 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-03 18:23 ` Stephen Hemminger
2020-11-03 22:32 ` David Ahern
2020-11-03 22:55 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-04 1:40 ` David Ahern
2020-11-04 2:45 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-04 9:28 ` Jiri Benc
2020-11-05 2:39 ` David Ahern
2020-11-04 2:17 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-11-04 3:11 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-04 10:01 ` Jiri Benc
2020-11-04 10:21 ` Daniel Borkmann
2020-11-04 11:20 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2020-11-04 13:12 ` Daniel Borkmann
2020-11-04 19:17 ` Jakub Kicinski [this message]
2020-11-04 20:43 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-11-04 22:24 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2020-11-05 20:14 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-11-05 3:48 ` David Ahern
2020-11-05 20:53 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-11-05 3:19 ` David Ahern
2020-11-05 14:05 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2020-11-05 21:01 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-11-06 15:27 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2020-11-06 21:25 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-11-10 12:47 ` Edward Cree
2020-11-11 0:53 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-11 11:31 ` Edward Cree
2020-11-11 18:08 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-05 20:45 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-11-06 9:00 ` Jiri Benc
2020-11-06 21:07 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-11-04 21:15 ` Edward Cree
2020-11-04 22:10 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-04 22:35 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2020-11-04 23:05 ` Edward Cree
2020-11-05 20:19 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-11-06 8:44 ` Jiri Benc
2020-11-06 20:57 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-11-06 21:04 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-06 23:25 ` Stephen Hemminger
2020-11-06 23:30 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-11-07 0:41 ` Stephen Hemminger
2020-11-07 1:07 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-11-06 23:38 ` David Ahern
2020-11-09 1:45 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-10 4:09 ` David Ahern
2020-11-11 0:47 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-11 11:02 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2020-11-11 15:06 ` Daniel Borkmann
2020-11-11 16:33 ` David Ahern
2020-11-12 22:36 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2020-11-12 23:20 ` Daniel Borkmann
2020-11-13 0:04 ` Stephen Hemminger
2020-11-13 0:40 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-13 3:55 ` David Ahern
2020-11-09 7:07 ` [PATCHv4 " Hangbin Liu
2020-11-09 7:07 ` [PATCHv4 iproute2-next 1/5] configure: add check_libbpf() for later " Hangbin Liu
2020-11-14 3:26 ` David Ahern
2020-11-16 4:30 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-11-16 4:33 ` David Ahern
2020-11-09 7:07 ` [PATCHv4 iproute2-next 2/5] lib: rename bpf.c to bpf_legacy.c Hangbin Liu
2020-11-14 3:24 ` David Ahern
2020-11-16 3:55 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-11-09 7:08 ` [PATCHv4 iproute2-next 3/5] lib: add libbpf support Hangbin Liu
2020-11-09 7:08 ` [PATCHv4 iproute2-next 4/5] examples/bpf: move struct bpf_elf_map defined maps to legacy folder Hangbin Liu
2020-11-09 7:08 ` [PATCHv4 iproute2-next 5/5] examples/bpf: add bpf examples with BTF defined maps Hangbin Liu
2020-11-16 6:53 ` [PATCHv5 iproute2-next 0/5] iproute2: add libbpf support Hangbin Liu
2020-11-16 6:53 ` [PATCHv5 iproute2-next 1/5] configure: add check_libbpf() for later " Hangbin Liu
2020-11-16 6:53 ` [PATCHv5 iproute2-next 2/5] lib: rename bpf.c to bpf_legacy.c Hangbin Liu
2020-11-16 6:53 ` [PATCHv5 iproute2-next 3/5] lib: add libbpf support Hangbin Liu
2020-11-16 6:53 ` [PATCHv5 iproute2-next 4/5] examples/bpf: move struct bpf_elf_map defined maps to legacy folder Hangbin Liu
2020-11-16 6:53 ` [PATCHv5 iproute2-next 5/5] examples/bpf: add bpf examples with BTF defined maps Hangbin Liu
2020-11-16 7:19 ` [PATCHv5 iproute2-next 0/5] iproute2: add libbpf support Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-16 14:54 ` Jesper Dangaard Brouer
2020-11-16 23:29 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2020-11-17 2:37 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-17 3:19 ` Hangbin Liu
2020-11-17 18:27 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-17 11:56 ` Edward Cree
2020-11-17 3:38 ` David Ahern
2020-11-17 18:19 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-16 16:45 ` Stephen Hemminger
2020-11-23 13:11 ` [PATCHv6 " Hangbin Liu
2020-11-23 13:11 ` [PATCHv6 iproute2-next 1/5] iproute2: add check_libbpf() and get_libbpf_version() Hangbin Liu
2020-11-23 13:11 ` [PATCHv6 iproute2-next 2/5] lib: make ipvrf able to use libbpf and fix function name conflicts Hangbin Liu
2020-11-23 13:11 ` [PATCHv6 iproute2-next 3/5] lib: add libbpf support Hangbin Liu
2020-11-23 13:12 ` [PATCHv6 iproute2-next 4/5] examples/bpf: move struct bpf_elf_map defined maps to legacy folder Hangbin Liu
2020-11-23 13:12 ` [PATCHv6 iproute2-next 5/5] examples/bpf: add bpf examples with BTF defined maps Hangbin Liu
2020-11-25 5:28 ` [PATCHv6 iproute2-next 0/5] iproute2: add libbpf support David Ahern
2020-11-25 5:30 ` patchwork-bot+netdevbpf
2020-11-29 6:16 ` [PATCH " Stephen Hemminger
2020-11-29 6:22 ` Greg KH
2020-11-30 11:39 ` Michal Kubecek
2020-11-29 17:33 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-11-29 19:41 ` David Ahern
2020-11-30 11:04 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2020-12-01 14:22 ` Jesper Dangaard Brouer
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