Re: [RFC PATCH bpf-next 00/13] bpf: Introduce BPF namespace

From: Yafang Shao <laoar.shao@gmail.com>
To: "Toke Høiland-Jørgensen" <toke@kernel.org>
Cc: ast@kernel.org, daniel@iogearbox.net, andrii@kernel.org,
	kafai@fb.com, songliubraving@fb.com, yhs@fb.com,
	john.fastabend@gmail.com, kpsingh@kernel.org, sdf@google.com,
	haoluo@google.com, jolsa@kernel.org, bpf@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH bpf-next 00/13] bpf: Introduce BPF namespace
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2023 11:48:47 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CALOAHbAd4NHCa4gaSLejyM6c9RYn+TEG=mX+NVnhBYa7Rp97sg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <877cv17wan.fsf@toke.dk>

On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 4:51 AM Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> Yafang Shao <laoar.shao@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 6:49 PM Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@kernel.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yafang Shao <laoar.shao@gmail.com> writes:
> >>
> >> > Currently only CAP_SYS_ADMIN can iterate BPF object IDs and convert IDs
> >> > to FDs, that's intended for BPF's security model[1]. Not only does it
> >> > prevent non-privilidged users from getting other users' bpf program, but
> >> > also it prevents the user from iterating his own bpf objects.
> >> >
> >> > In container environment, some users want to run bpf programs in their
> >> > containers. These users can run their bpf programs under CAP_BPF and
> >> > some other specific CAPs, but they can't inspect their bpf programs in a
> >> > generic way. For example, the bpftool can't be used as it requires
> >> > CAP_SYS_ADMIN. That is very inconvenient.
> >> >
> >> > Without CAP_SYS_ADMIN, the only way to get the information of a bpf object
> >> > which is not created by the process itself is with SCM_RIGHTS, that
> >> > requires each processes which created bpf object has to implement a unix
> >> > domain socket to share the fd of a bpf object between different
> >> > processes, that is really trivial and troublesome.
> >> >
> >> > Hence we need a better mechanism to get bpf object info without
> >> > CAP_SYS_ADMIN.
> >> >
> >> > BPF namespace is introduced in this patchset with an attempt to remove
> >> > the CAP_SYS_ADMIN requirement. The user can create bpf map, prog and
> >> > link in a specific bpf namespace, then these bpf objects will not be
> >> > visible to the users in a different bpf namespace. But these bpf
> >> > objects are visible to its parent bpf namespace, so the sys admin can
> >> > still iterate and inspect them.
> >> >
> >> > BPF namespace is similar to PID namespace, and the bpf objects are
> >> > similar to tasks, so BPF namespace is very easy to understand. These
> >> > patchset only implements BPF namespace for bpf map, prog and link. In the
> >> > future we may extend it to other bpf objects like btf, bpffs and etc.
> >>
> >> May? I think we should cover all of the existing BPF objects from the
> >> beginning here, or we may miss important interactions that will
> >> invalidate the whole idea.
> >
> > This patchset is intended to address iterating bpf IDs and converting
> > IDs to FDs.  To be more specific, it covers
> > BPF_{PROG,MAP,LINK}_GET_NEXT_ID and BPF_{PROG,MAP,LINK}_GET_FD_BY_ID.
> > It should also include BPF_BTF_GET_NEXT_ID and BPF_BTF_GET_FD_BY_ID,
> > but I don't implement it because I find we can do more wrt BTF, for
> > example, if we can expose a small amount of BTFs in the vmlinux to
> > non-root bpf namespace.
> > But, yes, I should implement BTF ID in this patchset.
>
> Right, as you can see by my comment on that patch, not including the btf
> id is a tad confusing, so yeah, better include that.
>
> >> In particular, I'm a little worried about the
> >> interaction between namespaces and bpffs; what happens if you're in a
> >> bpf namespace and you try to read a BPF object from a bpffs that belongs
> >> to a different namespace? Does the operation fail? Is the object hidden
> >> entirely? Something else?
> >>
> >
> > bpffs is a different topic and it can be implemented in later patchsets.
> > bpffs has its own specific problem even without the bpf namespace.
> > 1. The user can always get the information of a bpf object through its
> > corresponding pinned file.
> > In our practice, different container users have different bpffs, and
> > we allow the container user to bind-mount its bpffs only, so others'
> > bpffs are invisible.
> > To make it better with the bpf namespace, I think we can fail the
> > operation if the pinned file doesn't belong to its bpf namespace. That
> > said, we will add pinned bpf files into the bpf namespace in the next
> > step.
> >
> > 2. The user can always iterate bpf objects through progs.debug and maps.debug
> > progs.debug and maps.debug are debugging purposes only. So I think we
> > can handle it later.
>
> Well, I disagree. Working out these issues with bpffs is an important
> aspect to get a consistent API, and handwaving it away risks merging
> something that will turn out to not be workable further down the line at
> which point we can't change it.
>

Sure, I will include bpffs in the next version.

-- 
Regards
Yafang