From: Mimi Zohar <zohar@linux.ibm.com> To: Chuck Lever <chucklever@gmail.com>, James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>, James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com> Cc: Deven Bowers <deven.desai@linux.microsoft.com>, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>, Sasha Levin <sashal@kernel.org>, snitzer@redhat.com, dm-devel@redhat.com, tyhicks@linux.microsoft.com, agk@redhat.com, Paul Moore <paul@paul-moore.com>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>, nramas@linux.microsoft.com, serge@hallyn.com, pasha.tatashin@soleen.com, Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>, Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>, mdsakib@microsoft.com, open list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, eparis@redhat.com, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-audit@redhat.com, linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, jaskarankhurana@linux.microsoft.com Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [RFC PATCH v5 00/11] Integrity Policy Enforcement LSM (IPE) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2020 13:16:09 -0400 [thread overview] Message-ID: <da6f54d0438ee3d3903b2c75fcfbeb0afdf92dc2.camel@linux.ibm.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <329E8DBA-049E-4959-AFD4-9D118DEB176E@gmail.com> On Sat, 2020-08-08 at 13:47 -0400, Chuck Lever wrote: > > On Aug 5, 2020, at 2:15 PM, Mimi Zohar <zohar@linux.ibm.com> wrote: <snip> > > If block layer integrity was enough, there wouldn't have been a need > > for fs-verity. Even fs-verity is limited to read only filesystems, > > which makes validating file integrity so much easier. From the > > beginning, we've said that fs-verity signatures should be included in > > the measurement list. (I thought someone signed on to add that support > > to IMA, but have not yet seen anything.) > > Mimi, when you and I discussed this during LSS NA 2019, I didn't fully > understand that you expected me to implement signed Merkle trees for all > filesystems. At the time, it sounded to me like you wanted signed Merkle > trees only for NFS files. Is that still the case? I definitely do not expect you to support signed Merkle trees for all filesystems. My interested is from an IMA perspective of measuring and verifying the fs-verity Merkle tree root (and header info) signature. This is independent of which filesystems support it. > > The first priority (for me, anyway) therefore is getting the ability to > move IMA metadata between NFS clients and servers shoveled into the NFS > protocol, but that's been blocked for various legal reasons. Up to now, verifying remote filesystem file integrity has been out of scope for IMA. With fs-verity file signatures I can at least grasp how remote file integrity could possibly work. I don't understand how remote file integrity with existing IMA formats could be supported. You might want to consider writing a whitepaper, which could later be used as the basis for a patch set cover letter. Mimi > > IMO we need agreement from everyone (integrity developers, FS > implementers, and Linux distributors) that a signed Merkle tree IMA > metadata format, stored in either an xattr or appended to an executable > file, will be the way forward for IMA in all filesystems.
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Mimi Zohar <zohar@linux.ibm.com> To: Chuck Lever <chucklever@gmail.com>, James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>, James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com> Cc: snitzer@redhat.com, Deven Bowers <deven.desai@linux.microsoft.com>, dm-devel@redhat.com, tyhicks@linux.microsoft.com, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>, Paul, agk@redhat.com, Sasha Levin <sashal@kernel.org>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>, nramas@linux.microsoft.com, serge@hallyn.com, pasha.tatashin@soleen.com, Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>, Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>, mdsakib@microsoft.com, open list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-audit@redhat.com, linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, jaskarankhurana@linux.microsoft.com Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [RFC PATCH v5 00/11] Integrity Policy Enforcement LSM (IPE) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2020 13:16:09 -0400 [thread overview] Message-ID: <da6f54d0438ee3d3903b2c75fcfbeb0afdf92dc2.camel@linux.ibm.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <329E8DBA-049E-4959-AFD4-9D118DEB176E@gmail.com> On Sat, 2020-08-08 at 13:47 -0400, Chuck Lever wrote: > > On Aug 5, 2020, at 2:15 PM, Mimi Zohar <zohar@linux.ibm.com> wrote: <snip> > > If block layer integrity was enough, there wouldn't have been a need > > for fs-verity. Even fs-verity is limited to read only filesystems, > > which makes validating file integrity so much easier. From the > > beginning, we've said that fs-verity signatures should be included in > > the measurement list. (I thought someone signed on to add that support > > to IMA, but have not yet seen anything.) > > Mimi, when you and I discussed this during LSS NA 2019, I didn't fully > understand that you expected me to implement signed Merkle trees for all > filesystems. At the time, it sounded to me like you wanted signed Merkle > trees only for NFS files. Is that still the case? I definitely do not expect you to support signed Merkle trees for all filesystems. My interested is from an IMA perspective of measuring and verifying the fs-verity Merkle tree root (and header info) signature. This is independent of which filesystems support it. > > The first priority (for me, anyway) therefore is getting the ability to > move IMA metadata between NFS clients and servers shoveled into the NFS > protocol, but that's been blocked for various legal reasons. Up to now, verifying remote filesystem file integrity has been out of scope for IMA. With fs-verity file signatures I can at least grasp how remote file integrity could possibly work. I don't understand how remote file integrity with existing IMA formats could be supported. You might want to consider writing a whitepaper, which could later be used as the basis for a patch set cover letter. Mimi > > IMO we need agreement from everyone (integrity developers, FS > implementers, and Linux distributors) that a signed Merkle tree IMA > metadata format, stored in either an xattr or appended to an executable > file, will be the way forward for IMA in all filesystems. -- Linux-audit mailing list Linux-audit@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-audit
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-08-09 17:17 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 147+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2020-07-28 21:36 [RFC PATCH v5 00/11] Integrity Policy Enforcement LSM (IPE) Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 01/11] scripts: add ipe tooling to generate boot policy Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 02/11] security: add ipe lsm evaluation loop and audit system Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 03/11] security: add ipe lsm policy parser and policy loading Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 04/11] ipe: add property for trust of boot volume Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 05/11] fs: add security blob and hooks for block_device Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 22:22 ` Casey Schaufler 2020-07-28 22:22 ` Casey Schaufler 2020-07-28 22:40 ` Al Viro 2020-07-28 22:40 ` Al Viro 2020-07-28 23:55 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 23:55 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 06/11] dm-verity: move signature check after tree validation Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:50 ` Eric Biggers 2020-07-28 21:50 ` Eric Biggers 2020-07-28 23:55 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 23:55 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 07/11] dm-verity: add bdev_setsecurity hook for dm-verity signature Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 08/11] ipe: add property for signed dmverity volumes Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 09/11] dm-verity: add bdev_setsecurity hook for root-hash Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 10/11] documentation: add ipe documentation Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 10/12] ipe: add property for dmverity roothash Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 11/11] cleanup: uapi/linux/audit.h Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 11/12] documentation: add ipe documentation Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 12/12] cleanup: uapi/linux/audit.h Deven Bowers 2020-07-28 21:36 ` Deven Bowers 2020-08-02 11:55 ` [RFC PATCH v5 00/11] Integrity Policy Enforcement LSM (IPE) Pavel Machek 2020-08-02 11:55 ` Pavel Machek 2020-08-02 14:03 ` Sasha Levin 2020-08-02 14:03 ` Sasha Levin 2020-08-02 14:31 ` Pavel Machek 2020-08-02 14:31 ` Pavel Machek 2020-08-02 16:43 ` [dm-devel] " James Bottomley 2020-08-02 16:43 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-04 16:07 ` Deven Bowers 2020-08-04 16:07 ` Deven Bowers 2020-08-04 16:07 ` [dm-devel] " Deven Bowers 2020-08-05 15:01 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-05 15:01 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-05 15:01 ` [dm-devel] " James Bottomley 2020-08-05 16:59 ` James Morris 2020-08-05 16:59 ` James Morris 2020-08-05 18:15 ` Mimi Zohar 2020-08-05 18:15 ` Mimi Zohar 2020-08-05 23:51 ` James Morris 2020-08-05 23:51 ` James Morris 2020-08-06 14:33 ` Mimi Zohar 2020-08-06 14:33 ` Mimi Zohar 2020-08-06 14:33 ` Mimi Zohar 2020-08-07 16:41 ` James Morris 2020-08-07 16:41 ` James Morris 2020-08-07 17:31 ` Mimi Zohar 2020-08-07 17:31 ` Mimi Zohar 2020-08-07 18:40 ` Mimi Zohar 2020-08-07 18:40 ` Mimi Zohar 2020-08-10 20:29 ` James Morris 2020-08-10 20:29 ` James Morris 2020-08-08 17:47 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-08 17:47 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-09 17:16 ` Mimi Zohar [this message] 2020-08-09 17:16 ` Mimi Zohar 2020-08-10 15:35 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-10 15:35 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-10 16:35 ` Mimi Zohar 2020-08-10 16:35 ` Mimi Zohar 2020-08-10 17:13 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-10 17:13 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-10 17:57 ` Mimi Zohar 2020-08-10 17:57 ` Mimi Zohar 2020-08-10 23:36 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-10 23:36 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-10 23:36 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-11 5:43 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-11 5:43 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-11 5:43 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-11 14:48 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-11 14:48 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-11 14:48 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-11 15:32 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-11 15:32 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-11 15:32 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-11 19:30 ` Pavel Machek 2020-08-11 19:30 ` Pavel Machek 2020-08-11 19:30 ` Pavel Machek 2020-08-12 14:45 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-12 14:45 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-12 14:45 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-11 15:53 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-11 15:53 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-11 15:53 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-12 14:15 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-12 14:15 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-12 14:15 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-12 15:51 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-12 15:51 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-12 15:51 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-13 14:42 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-13 14:42 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-13 14:42 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-13 15:10 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-13 15:10 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-13 15:10 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-14 14:21 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-14 14:21 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-14 14:21 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-11 18:28 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-11 18:28 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-11 18:28 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-12 13:56 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-12 13:56 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-12 13:56 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-12 15:42 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-12 15:42 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-12 15:42 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-13 14:21 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-13 14:21 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-13 14:21 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-13 14:42 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-13 14:42 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-13 14:42 ` James Bottomley 2020-08-13 14:56 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-13 14:56 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-13 14:56 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-11 21:03 ` James Morris 2020-08-11 21:03 ` James Morris 2020-08-11 21:03 ` James Morris 2020-08-12 14:18 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-12 14:18 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-12 14:18 ` Chuck Lever 2020-08-12 17:07 ` Deven Bowers 2020-08-12 17:07 ` Deven Bowers
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