Re: HMM fence (was Re: [PATCH 00/35] Add HMM-based SVM memory manager to KFD)

["Christian König" <christian.koenig@amd.com>]

Am 14.01.21 um 22:13 schrieb Felix Kuehling:
> Am 2021-01-14 um 11:51 a.m. schrieb Jerome Glisse:
>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 02:37:36PM +0100, Christian König wrote:
>>> Am 14.01.21 um 12:52 schrieb Daniel Vetter:
>>>> [SNIP]
>>>>>> I had a new idea, i wanted to think more about it but have not yet,
>>>>>> anyway here it is. Adding a new callback to dma fence which ask the
>>>>>> question can it dead lock ? Any time a GPU driver has pending page
>>>>>> fault (ie something calling into the mm) it answer yes, otherwise
>>>>>> no. The GPU shrinker would ask the question before waiting on any
>>>>>> dma-fence and back of if it gets yes. Shrinker can still try many
>>>>>> dma buf object for which it does not get a yes on associated fence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This does not solve the mmu notifier case, for this you would just
>>>>>> invalidate the gem userptr object (with a flag but not releasing the
>>>>>> page refcount) but you would not wait for the GPU (ie no dma fence
>>>>>> wait in that code path anymore). The userptr API never really made
>>>>>> the contract that it will always be in sync with the mm view of the
>>>>>> world so if different page get remapped to same virtual address
>>>>>> while GPU is still working with the old pages it should not be an
>>>>>> issue (it would not be in our usage of userptr for compositor and
>>>>>> what not).
>>>>> The current working idea in my mind goes into a similar direction.
>>>>>
>>>>> But instead of a callback I'm adding a complete new class of HMM fences.
>>>>>
>>>>> Waiting in the MMU notfier, scheduler, TTM etc etc is only allowed for
>>>>> the dma_fences and HMM fences are ignored in container objects.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you handle an implicit or explicit synchronization request from
>>>>> userspace you need to block for HMM fences to complete before taking any
>>>>> resource locks.
>>>> Isnt' that what I call gang scheduling? I.e. you either run in HMM
>>>> mode, or in legacy fencing mode (whether implicit or explicit doesn't
>>>> really matter I think). By forcing that split we avoid the problem,
>>>> but it means occasionally full stalls on mixed workloads.
>>>>
>>>> But that's not what Jerome wants (afaiui at least), I think his idea
>>>> is to track the reverse dependencies of all the fences floating
>>>> around, and then skip evicting an object if you have to wait for any
>>>> fence that is problematic for the current calling context. And I don't
>>>> think that's very feasible in practice.
>>>>
>>>> So what kind of hmm fences do you have in mind here?
>>> It's a bit more relaxed than your gang schedule.
>>>
>>> See the requirements are as follow:
>>>
>>> 1. dma_fences never depend on hmm_fences.
>>> 2. hmm_fences can never preempt dma_fences.
>>> 3. dma_fences must be able to preempt hmm_fences or we always reserve enough
>>> hardware resources (CUs) to guarantee forward progress of dma_fences.
>>>
>>> Critical sections are MMU notifiers, page faults, GPU schedulers and
>>> dma_reservation object locks.
>>>
>>> 4. It is valid to wait for a dma_fences in critical sections.
>>> 5. It is not valid to wait for hmm_fences in critical sections.
>>>
>>> Fence creation either happens during command submission or by adding
>>> something like a barrier or signal command to your userspace queue.
>>>
>>> 6. If we have an hmm_fence as implicit or explicit dependency for creating a
>>> dma_fence we must wait for that before taking any locks or reserving
>>> resources.
>>> 7. If we have a dma_fence as implicit or explicit dependency for creating an
>>> hmm_fence we can wait later on. So busy waiting or special WAIT hardware
>>> commands are valid.
>>>
>>> This prevents hard cuts, e.g. can mix hmm_fences and dma_fences at the same
>>> time on the hardware.
>>>
>>> In other words we can have a high priority gfx queue running jobs based on
>>> dma_fences and a low priority compute queue running jobs based on
>>> hmm_fences.
>>>
>>> Only when we switch from hmm_fence to dma_fence we need to block the
>>> submission until all the necessary resources (both memory as well as CUs)
>>> are available.
>>>
>>> This is somewhat an extension to your gang submit idea.
>> What is hmm_fence ? You should not have fence with hmm at all.
>> So i am kind of scare now.
> I kind of had the same question trying to follow Christian and Daniel's
> discussion. I think an HMM fence would be any fence resulting from the
> completion of a user mode operation in a context with HMM-based memory
> management that may stall indefinitely due to page faults.

It was more of a placeholder for something which can be used for inter 
process synchronization.

> But on a hardware engine that cannot preempt page-faulting work and has
> not reserved resources to guarantee forward progress for kernel jobs, I
> think all fences will need to be HMM fences, because any work submitted
> to such an engine can stall by getting stuck behind a stalled user mode
> operation.
>
> So for example, you have a DMA engine that can preempt during page
> faults, but a graphics engine that cannot. Then work submitted to the
> DMA engine can use dma_fence. But work submitted to the graphics engine
> must use hmm_fence. To avoid deadlocks, dma_fences must never depend on
> hmm_fences and resolution of page faults must never depend on hmm_fences.

Yeah, it's a bit more complicated but in general that fits.

Regards,
Christian.

>
> Regards,
>    Felix
>
>
>> Cheers,
>> Jérôme
>>

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