* "master" term - no one cares @ 2022-08-13 2:57 Ryan 2022-08-13 3:15 ` Felipe Contreras 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Ryan @ 2022-08-13 2:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: git I installed the windows version of git today and was annoyed with the “woke” message stating that the “master” branch term will be changed to a different name to be more “inclusive". Don’t waste your time, just get rid of this annoying woke question in your installer. Very annoying!! No one thinks git has anything to do with slavery. On the plus side, git is great, I just started learning it. Thanks! Ryan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: "master" term - no one cares 2022-08-13 2:57 "master" term - no one cares Ryan @ 2022-08-13 3:15 ` Felipe Contreras 2022-08-13 16:55 ` Philip Oakley 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Felipe Contreras @ 2022-08-13 3:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ryan; +Cc: git On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 10:10 PM Ryan <rmrmail@gmx.com> wrote: > > I installed the windows version of git today and was annoyed with the “woke” message stating that the “master” branch term will be changed to a different name to be more “inclusive". > > Don’t waste your time, just get rid of this annoying woke question in your installer. Very annoying!! No one thinks git has anything to do with slavery. On the plus side, git is great, I just started learning it. Thanks! This is not a Git issue, this is a Git for Windows[1] issue: they are the ones exposing that message to their users at installation time. You can raise the issue in their issue tracker [2], but I wouldn't hold my breath. [1] https://gitforwindows.org/ [2] https://github.com/git-for-windows/git/issues -- Felipe Contreras ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: "master" term - no one cares 2022-08-13 3:15 ` Felipe Contreras @ 2022-08-13 16:55 ` Philip Oakley 2022-08-14 2:05 ` Felipe Contreras 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Philip Oakley @ 2022-08-13 16:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Felipe Contreras, Ryan; +Cc: git On 13/08/2022 04:15, Felipe Contreras wrote: > On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 10:10 PM Ryan <rmrmail@gmx.com> wrote: >> I installed the windows version of git today and was annoyed with the “woke” message stating that the “master” branch term will be changed to a different name to be more “inclusive". >> >> Don’t waste your time, just get rid of this annoying woke question in your installer. Very annoying!! No one thinks git has anything to do with slavery. On the plus side, git is great, I just started learning it. Thanks! > This is not a Git issue, this is a Git for Windows[1] issue: they are > the ones exposing that message to their users at installation time. > > You can raise the issue in their issue tracker [2], but I wouldn't > hold my breath. > > [1] https://gitforwindows.org/ > [2] https://github.com/git-for-windows/git/issues > Thanks for the comment. The wider point is to ensure that everyone can choose their own name for their primary line of development (plod), no matter how fast or slow they plod along. There is a confusion between the use of the term that refers to the *personal* mastery of a _craft_ or _artisan_ technique and, at least one of, the historical choices for the usage of the term 'master', which was a direct reference to slave servitude. That was for the use of electrical circuits which would detect the 'tick' of a primary timing pendulum and then have all the actual clock faces that indicated the time be _driven_ from that 'master'. The previous discussion include that of [1], in which I reference the paper (it's [4]) regarding the chronometer (clock) . -- Philip [1] https://lore.kernel.org/git/4bbc8658-4dad-10ef-65a4-8f0f4f4fffd4@iee.email/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: "master" term - no one cares 2022-08-13 16:55 ` Philip Oakley @ 2022-08-14 2:05 ` Felipe Contreras 2022-08-14 8:26 ` demerphq 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Felipe Contreras @ 2022-08-14 2:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Philip Oakley; +Cc: Ryan, git On Sat, Aug 13, 2022 at 11:55 AM Philip Oakley <philipoakley@iee.email> wrote: > On 13/08/2022 04:15, Felipe Contreras wrote: > > This is not a Git issue, this is a Git for Windows[1] issue: they are > > the ones exposing that message to their users at installation time. > > > Thanks for the comment. The wider point is to ensure that everyone can > choose their own name for their primary line of development (plod), no > matter how fast or slow they plod along. Everyone can choose their own name without being asked. All software has dozens if not hundreds of default configurations that the user is not forced to choose at installation time. When I type "bash" I'm not asked what kind of prompt I would like, that would be annoying. I can choose to change my bash prompt any time I want, or I could choose to keep using the default. We don't ask users what name they would like for the remote every time they clone a repository, we use "origin", and that's fine. The user can choose a different origin with --origin, or just use the default. Being forced to make an *unnecessary* choice is just annoying, but we all know why the Git for Windows project is annoying their users and it has nothing to do with technical aspects and everything to do with *personal* politics. > There is a confusion between the use of the term that refers to the > *personal* mastery of a _craft_ or _artisan_ technique and, at least one > of, the historical choices for the usage of the term 'master', which was > a direct reference to slave servitude. That was for the use of > electrical circuits which would detect the 'tick' of a primary timing > pendulum and then have all the actual clock faces that indicated the > time be _driven_ from that 'master'. This may be the reason why some people used that name in the past, but it's not the reason I use it. For me if I was cloned there wouldn't be two equally valid versions of me, *I* am the original one, I am the "master" copy. This doesn't change if my clone is cloned in turn. This is exactly how master branches in git are used. I have a master branch of git.git, but it's not *the* master branch. *The* master branch is the branch from which all the other branches came from, including "maint" and "next", and all the dozens of branches in thousands of other repositories. If the word "master" makes it sound more important than all the other branches in all the other repositories, it's because it is. Regardless of what name people use and for what reason, the reality is that "master" is still very widely used, despite of the campaign against it which was clearly driven by ideological reasons. And it's also a reality that the world is not going to end if users are not being forced to pick that one controversial configuration at installation time. Cheers. -- Felipe Contreras ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: "master" term - no one cares 2022-08-14 2:05 ` Felipe Contreras @ 2022-08-14 8:26 ` demerphq 2022-08-14 17:19 ` Felipe Contreras 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: demerphq @ 2022-08-14 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Felipe Contreras; +Cc: Philip Oakley, Ryan, Git On Sun, 14 Aug 2022, 04:35 Felipe Contreras, <felipe.contreras@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 13, 2022 at 11:55 AM Philip Oakley <philipoakley@iee.email> wrote: > > There is a confusion between the use of the term that refers to the > > *personal* mastery of a _craft_ or _artisan_ technique and, at least one > > of, the historical choices for the usage of the term 'master', which was > > a direct reference to slave servitude. That was for the use of > > electrical circuits which would detect the 'tick' of a primary timing > > pendulum and then have all the actual clock faces that indicated the > > time be _driven_ from that 'master'. > > This may be the reason why some people used that name in the past, but > it's not the reason I use it. > > For me if I was cloned there wouldn't be two equally valid versions of > me, *I* am the original one, I am the "master" copy. This doesn't > change if my clone is cloned in turn. > > This is exactly how master branches in git are used. I have a master > branch of git.git, but it's not *the* master branch. *The* master > branch is the branch from which all the other branches came from, > including "maint" and "next", and all the dozens of branches in > thousands of other repositories. If the word "master" makes it sound > more important than all the other branches in all the other > repositories, it's because it is. > > Regardless of what name people use and for what reason, the reality is > that "master" is still very widely used, despite of the campaign > against it which was clearly driven by ideological reasons. FWIW, I was a part of ensuring two large codebases did not use the term "master" when they migrated to git long before it became a subject of controversy. Not because I had concerns over the master/slave word association (it really wasnt on my mind) but simply because the word "master" is too overloaded, and its use as a name leads to all sorts of weird sentences involving the phrase "master master", which for newbies especially can be really confusing. I found that introducing newbies to the concepts of distributed version control goes much more smoothly when the "primary" branch is not called "master", as it avoids the need to understand that there are various different copies of the "master" branch where either only one or none of them are actually master branches. Just writing this paragraph makes me itch from having to distinguish the different uses of the word master. So while it is indisputable that what you call "ideological reasons" really pushed this initiative into the public consciousness I think there were and are a lot of us who are quite happy to support the movement simply because we think using a word which (in English) has multiple Noun, Adjective and Verb definitions is a poor choice for the *name* (Proper Noun) of an arbitrary artifact, especially when those definitions will likely be applied to thing being named. That the phrase "master master" is in our vocabulary is a horrorshow. To me it is not unlike naming someone's two children "Run" and "Slowly". Who is going to understand what the heck "Run, Slowly, run slowly!" means? The fact you need to distinguish <"the" master> from other uses of the word "master" when talking above is to me a clear indication how bad a name choice it was. I get it, from certain perspectives, it is an attractive name, but if you zoom out a bit, it just seems to regularly lead to unfortunate sentences, at least in English. Try explaining how the "master" branch is used to someone who knows nothing about tech, like your Grandmother, or Uncle or something, I bet they are totally lost within the first sentences. At least if they are English speakers, other languages may overload the word differently. Dont forget to explain the difference between "canonical master" like Linus'es master master, and distinguish it from the various other "master" branches that would be out there, and how most of them aren't the master at all. Anyway, just my $0.02. Thanks for listening. cheers, Yves ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: "master" term - no one cares 2022-08-14 8:26 ` demerphq @ 2022-08-14 17:19 ` Felipe Contreras 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Felipe Contreras @ 2022-08-14 17:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: demerphq; +Cc: Philip Oakley, Ryan, Git On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 3:26 AM demerphq <demerphq@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sun, 14 Aug 2022, 04:35 Felipe Contreras, <felipe.contreras@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Sat, Aug 13, 2022 at 11:55 AM Philip Oakley <philipoakley@iee.email> wrote: > > > There is a confusion between the use of the term that refers to the > > > *personal* mastery of a _craft_ or _artisan_ technique and, at least one > > > of, the historical choices for the usage of the term 'master', which was > > > a direct reference to slave servitude. That was for the use of > > > electrical circuits which would detect the 'tick' of a primary timing > > > pendulum and then have all the actual clock faces that indicated the > > > time be _driven_ from that 'master'. > > > > This may be the reason why some people used that name in the past, but > > it's not the reason I use it. > > > > For me if I was cloned there wouldn't be two equally valid versions of > > me, *I* am the original one, I am the "master" copy. This doesn't > > change if my clone is cloned in turn. > > > > This is exactly how master branches in git are used. I have a master > > branch of git.git, but it's not *the* master branch. *The* master > > branch is the branch from which all the other branches came from, > > including "maint" and "next", and all the dozens of branches in > > thousands of other repositories. If the word "master" makes it sound > > more important than all the other branches in all the other > > repositories, it's because it is. > > > > Regardless of what name people use and for what reason, the reality is > > that "master" is still very widely used, despite of the campaign > > against it which was clearly driven by ideological reasons. > > FWIW, I was a part of ensuring two large codebases did not use the > term "master" when they migrated to git long before it became a > subject of controversy. Not because I had concerns over the > master/slave word association (it really wasnt on my mind) but simply > because the word "master" is too overloaded, and its use as a name > leads to all sorts of weird sentences involving the phrase "master > master", which for newbies especially can be really confusing. I > found that introducing newbies to the concepts of distributed version > control goes much more smoothly when the "primary" branch is not > called "master", as it avoids the need to understand that there are > various different copies of the "master" branch where either only one > or none of them are actually master branches. Just writing this > paragraph makes me itch from having to distinguish the different uses > of the word master. Sure, each person's mileage may vary, but personally I've never used the phrase "master master", it's always "master's upstream", or "origin's master", or something else. And I have no trouble realizing that "master" is different from "origin/master". > So while it is indisputable that what you call "ideological reasons" > really pushed this initiative into the public consciousness I think > there were and are a lot of us who are quite happy to support the > movement simply because we think using a word which (in English) has > multiple Noun, Adjective and Verb definitions is a poor choice for the > *name* (Proper Noun) of an arbitrary artifact, especially when those > definitions will likely be applied to thing being named. That the > phrase "master master" is in our vocabulary is a horrorshow. To me it > is not unlike naming someone's two children "Run" and "Slowly". Who is > going to understand what the heck "Run, Slowly, run slowly!" means? I disagree. English speakers have no problem with words that have multiple meanings, the word "run" has hundreds of them, and people keep using it. And as I said, "master master" is not in my vocabulary. Moreover this usage is already part of the English language, there's master key, master bedroom, master copy, master record. Somehow the music industry doesn't have a problem dealing with multiple master records. If you personally want to use another name, go right ahead, but for many of us "master" is a perfect name, and more importantly: a perfectly fine default name. Cheers. -- Felipe Contreras ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2022-08-14 17:19 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2022-08-13 2:57 "master" term - no one cares Ryan 2022-08-13 3:15 ` Felipe Contreras 2022-08-13 16:55 ` Philip Oakley 2022-08-14 2:05 ` Felipe Contreras 2022-08-14 8:26 ` demerphq 2022-08-14 17:19 ` Felipe Contreras
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