From: John Wood <john.wood@gmx.com>
To: Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>
Cc: John Wood <john.wood@gmx.com>, Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
Kernel Hardening <kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com>,
Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>,
Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
Juri Lelli <juri.lelli@redhat.com>,
Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@linaro.org>,
Dietmar Eggemann <dietmar.eggemann@arm.com>,
Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
Ben Segall <bsegall@google.com>, Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>,
Luis Chamberlain <mcgrof@kernel.org>,
Iurii Zaikin <yzaikin@google.com>,
James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>,
"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>,
linux-doc@vger.kernel.org,
kernel list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-security-module <linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 5/6] security/fbfam: Detect a fork brute force attack
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 20:44:19 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200915175831.GB2900@ubuntu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAG48ez0BcSY0is2LzdkizcOQYkaOJwfa=5ZSwjKb+faRwG9QCA@mail.gmail.com>
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 09:42:37PM +0200, Jann Horn wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 7:55 PM John Wood <john.wood@gmx.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 11:10:38PM +0200, Jann Horn wrote:
> > > > + delta_jiffies = get_jiffies_64() - stats->jiffies;
> > > > + delta_time = jiffies64_to_msecs(delta_jiffies);
> > > > + crashing_rate = delta_time / (u64)stats->faults;
> > >
> > > Do I see this correctly, is this computing the total runtime of this
> > > process hierarchy divided by the total number of faults seen in this
> > > process hierarchy? If so, you may want to reconsider whether that's
> > > really the behavior you want. For example, if I configure the minimum
> > > period between crashes to be 30s (as is the default in the sysctl
> > > patch), and I try to attack a server that has been running without any
> > > crashes for a month, I'd instantly be able to crash around
> > > 30*24*60*60/30 = 86400 times before the detection kicks in. That seems
> > > suboptimal.
> >
> > You are right. This is not the behaviour we want. So, for the next
> > version it would be better to compute the crashing period as the time
> > between two faults, or the time between the execve call and the first
> > fault (first fault case).
> >
> > However, I am afraid of a premature detection if a child process fails
> > twice in a short period.
> >
> > So, I think it would be a good idea add a new sysctl to setup a
> > minimum number of faults before the time between faults starts to be
> > computed. And so, the attack detection only will be triggered if the
> > application crashes quickly but after a number of crashes.
> >
> > What do you think?
>
> You could keep a list of the timestamps of the last five crashes or
> so, and then take action if the last five crashes happened within
> (5-1)*crash_period_limit time.
Ok, your proposed solution seems a more clever one. Anyway I think that a
new sysctl for fine tuning the number of timestamps would be needed.
Thanks,
John Wood
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-09-15 18:45 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 45+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-09-10 20:21 [RESEND][RFC PATCH 0/6] Fork brute force attack mitigation (fbfam) Kees Cook
2020-09-10 20:21 ` [RFC PATCH 1/6] security/fbfam: Add a Kconfig to enable the fbfam feature Kees Cook
2020-09-10 21:21 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-17 17:32 ` John Wood
2020-09-10 23:18 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-17 18:40 ` John Wood
2020-09-17 22:05 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-18 14:50 ` John Wood
2020-09-10 20:21 ` [RFC PATCH 2/6] security/fbfam: Add the api to manage statistics Kees Cook
2020-09-10 23:23 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-10 20:21 ` [RFC PATCH 3/6] security/fbfam: Use " Kees Cook
2020-09-10 20:27 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-10 23:33 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-29 23:47 ` Steven Rostedt
2020-09-29 23:49 ` Steven Rostedt
2020-10-03 9:52 ` John Wood
2020-09-10 20:21 ` [RFC PATCH 4/6] security/fbfam: Add a new sysctl to control the crashing rate threshold Kees Cook
2020-09-10 23:14 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-13 14:33 ` John Wood
2020-09-10 20:21 ` [RFC PATCH 5/6] security/fbfam: Detect a fork brute force attack Kees Cook
2020-09-10 21:10 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-13 17:54 ` John Wood
2020-09-14 19:42 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-15 18:44 ` John Wood [this message]
2020-09-10 23:49 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-11 0:01 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-13 16:56 ` John Wood
2020-09-14 19:39 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-15 17:36 ` John Wood
2020-09-10 20:21 ` [RFC PATCH 6/6] security/fbfam: Mitigate " Kees Cook
2020-09-10 20:55 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-10 23:56 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-11 0:20 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-18 16:02 ` John Wood
2020-09-18 21:35 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-19 8:01 ` John Wood
2020-09-10 20:39 ` [RESEND][RFC PATCH 0/6] Fork brute force attack mitigation (fbfam) Jann Horn
2020-09-10 23:58 ` Kees Cook
[not found] ` <20200911144806.GA4128@ubuntu>
[not found] ` <202009120053.9FB7F2A7@keescook>
2020-09-12 12:24 ` John Wood
2020-09-12 0:03 ` James Morris
2020-09-12 7:56 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-12 9:36 ` John Wood
2020-09-12 14:47 ` Mel Gorman
2020-09-12 20:48 ` Ondrej Mosnacek
2020-09-13 7:24 ` John Wood
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=20200915175831.GB2900@ubuntu \
--to=john.wood@gmx.com \
--cc=bsegall@google.com \
--cc=corbet@lwn.net \
--cc=dietmar.eggemann@arm.com \
--cc=jannh@google.com \
--cc=jmorris@namei.org \
--cc=juri.lelli@redhat.com \
--cc=keescook@chromium.org \
--cc=kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com \
--cc=linux-doc@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=mcgrof@kernel.org \
--cc=mgorman@suse.de \
--cc=mingo@redhat.com \
--cc=peterz@infradead.org \
--cc=rostedt@goodmis.org \
--cc=serge@hallyn.com \
--cc=vincent.guittot@linaro.org \
--cc=viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk \
--cc=willy@infradead.org \
--cc=yzaikin@google.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).