* New text
@ 2020-02-19 15:54 Ruben Safir
2020-02-19 21:36 ` Valdis Klētnieks
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Ruben Safir @ 2020-02-19 15:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: kernelnewbies
is there currently a rfecommended text to learn kernel development from?
--
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com
Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread* Re: New text 2020-02-19 15:54 New text Ruben Safir @ 2020-02-19 21:36 ` Valdis Klētnieks 2020-02-19 23:17 ` Ruben Safir 2020-02-19 23:43 ` Robert P. J. Day 2020-02-23 3:51 ` Aruna Hewapathirane 2 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Valdis Klētnieks @ 2020-02-19 21:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ruben Safir; +Cc: kernelnewbies [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2816 bytes --] On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 10:54:10 -0500, Ruben Safir said: > is there currently a rfecommended text to learn kernel development from? The first thing to remember is that the kernel has no obligation to be easy for new programmers. It's more like a Formula 1 race car than a Ford Escort - there's an expectation that you *really* know what you're doing when you put your hands on the steering wheel. As a result, the authoritative source on that is, of course: $ git clone git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git Seriously - the kernel is a work in progress, and it's in motion all the time. There's no way to write a text that's up to date - by the time you finish, the source tree has moved by 3 or 4 million lines. Currently, the best is probably Linux Device Drivers, Third Edition (just google for LDD3 and you'll get a pointer to the PDF). However - keep in mind that it discusses *concepts* like locking and variable lifetimes and so on. It's now somewhere over 15 million lines out of date, and it's expected that if you can't figure out for yourself what concepts mean, or what the *current* API is, then you probably shouldn't be writing large chunks of kernel code that requires undertanding the current APIs. Note that many bugs are fixable without knowing all that - it's often a "somebody added A and B, when it should have been A - B" or a stupid null pointer mistake, or similar. And drivers/staging is just *full* of stuff that is in drastic need of help. Protip: if you've been handed a device dqriver for a 4.7 kernel, and been told to make it work under a 5.5 kernel, and you have *no* idea how to fix all the compile errors, the way to proceed is usually: 0) Kernel API changes are *supposed* to break a compile - if you used to pass an integer as the third parameter, and now it's a pointer to a structure, the build will break. Anybody who makes a kernel API change where the third parameter used to be an integer that meant one thing, and changes it to an integer that means something else, so it will compile but not work correctly, will probably get smacked around with a large trout or something. (A common work around for this is changing a function from (struct *A, struct *B, oldint) to (struct A*, newint, struct *B) so the compiler will whine). 1) Start wading through the git log until you find the commit that changed the API. In either that commit, or a commit in the same series, whoever changed the API also changed all the in-tree users of the API. 2) Look at that commit, and see what got changed in all the in-tree users. 3) Do the same thing to your out-of-tree code. And here you thought it was difficult, :) (Of course, if you're trying to get a 2.6.12 driver working on 5.6... you may decide that it's time to start drinking heavily :) [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 832 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 170 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: New text 2020-02-19 21:36 ` Valdis Klētnieks @ 2020-02-19 23:17 ` Ruben Safir 2020-02-20 20:12 ` Valdis Klētnieks 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Ruben Safir @ 2020-02-19 23:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Valdis Klētnieks; +Cc: kernelnewbies On 2/19/20 4:36 PM, Valdis Klētnieks wrote: > The first thing to remember is that the kernel has no obligation to be easy for > new programmers. it is not that hard. It can be understood, and kernel writers aren't generally starting out by pouring over the code base to learn how it works. OS operations can be taught conceptually, with kernel code source as an example. The Love text is a bit old at this point. > 1) Start wading through the git log until you find the commit that changed the API. In either that commit, or a commit in the same series, whoever changed the API I don't think that will be a useful way to learn to code the kernel. I'm suprised that there has been no new text since Loves work :( -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 _______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: New text 2020-02-19 23:17 ` Ruben Safir @ 2020-02-20 20:12 ` Valdis Klētnieks 2020-02-20 21:06 ` Ruben Safir 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Valdis Klētnieks @ 2020-02-20 20:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ruben Safir; +Cc: kernelnewbies [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 665 bytes --] On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 18:17:36 -0500, Ruben Safir said: > > 1) Start wading through the git log until you find the commit that > > changed the API. In either that commit, or a commit in the same series, > > whoever changed the API > > I don't think that will be a useful way to learn to code the kernel. That was addressing the specific case of "I need to update an out of tree driver to a recent kernel". And I didn't say the kernel is impossible to learn - only that there's no special consideration given in-tree to beginning kernel hackers. If you don't already understand topics like locking and caching and file systems, you need to learn those elsewhere. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 832 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 170 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: New text 2020-02-20 20:12 ` Valdis Klētnieks @ 2020-02-20 21:06 ` Ruben Safir 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Ruben Safir @ 2020-02-20 21:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Valdis Klētnieks; +Cc: kernelnewbies On 2/20/20 3:12 PM, Valdis Klētnieks wrote: > That was addressing the specific case of "I need to update an out of tree > driver to a recent kernel". I hear ya, babe, but I didn't ask that :) -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 _______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: New text 2020-02-19 15:54 New text Ruben Safir 2020-02-19 21:36 ` Valdis Klētnieks @ 2020-02-19 23:43 ` Robert P. J. Day 2020-02-20 1:55 ` Ruben Safir 2020-02-23 3:51 ` Aruna Hewapathirane 2 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Robert P. J. Day @ 2020-02-19 23:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ruben Safir; +Cc: kernelnewbies On Wed, 19 Feb 2020, Ruben Safir wrote: > is there currently a rfecommended text to learn kernel development > from? not really ... given the speed of development, any book would be out of date pretty much the instant it hit the shelves. best place to look is in the in-kernel Documentation. rday _______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: New text 2020-02-19 23:43 ` Robert P. J. Day @ 2020-02-20 1:55 ` Ruben Safir 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Ruben Safir @ 2020-02-20 1:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert P. J. Day; +Cc: Ruben Safir, kernelnewbies there are diagrams for the linux memory management and paging systems? On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 06:43:05PM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Wed, 19 Feb 2020, Ruben Safir wrote: > > > is there currently a rfecommended text to learn kernel development > > from? > > not really ... given the speed of development, any book would be out > of date pretty much the instant it hit the shelves. best place to look > is in the in-kernel Documentation. > > rday -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 _______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: New text 2020-02-19 15:54 New text Ruben Safir 2020-02-19 21:36 ` Valdis Klētnieks 2020-02-19 23:43 ` Robert P. J. Day @ 2020-02-23 3:51 ` Aruna Hewapathirane 2020-03-15 11:10 ` Rishi Agrawal 2 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Aruna Hewapathirane @ 2020-02-23 3:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ruben Safir; +Cc: kernelnewbies [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 922 bytes --] >> On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 10:54 AM Ruben Safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> wrote: >> is there currently a rfecommended text to learn kernel development from? There are lot's out there. I have listed below the ones that helped me. 1 - The Linux Programming Interface: A Linux and UNIX System Programming Handbook by Micheal Kerrisk who is the man pages maintainer <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Linux_Programming_Interface> 2 - Linux From Scratch <http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/downloads/stable/LFS-BOOK-9.0.pdf> 3 - How Linux Works <http://index-of.es/Varios-2/How%20Linux%20Works%20What%20Every%20Superuser%20Should%20Know.pdf> 4 - Xv6, a simple Unix-like teaching operating system <https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2012/xv6.html> 5 - Advanced Linux Programming <https://richard.esplins.org/static/downloads/linux_book.pdf> 6 - Linux Networking <http://linux-training.be/linuxnet.pdf> Hope this helps - Aruna [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1254 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 170 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: New text 2020-02-23 3:51 ` Aruna Hewapathirane @ 2020-03-15 11:10 ` Rishi Agrawal 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Rishi Agrawal @ 2020-03-15 11:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ruben Safir; +Cc: Aruna Hewapathirane, kernelnewbies [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1332 bytes --] See if this helps - https://lkw.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 9:22 AM Aruna Hewapathirane < aruna.hewapathirane@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 10:54 AM Ruben Safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> > wrote: > >> is there currently a rfecommended text to learn kernel development from? > > There are lot's out there. I have listed below the ones that helped me. > > 1 - The Linux Programming Interface: A Linux and UNIX System Programming > Handbook by Micheal Kerrisk who is the man pages maintainer > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Linux_Programming_Interface> > 2 - Linux From Scratch > <http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/downloads/stable/LFS-BOOK-9.0.pdf> > > 3 - How Linux Works > <http://index-of.es/Varios-2/How%20Linux%20Works%20What%20Every%20Superuser%20Should%20Know.pdf> > > 4 - Xv6, a simple Unix-like teaching operating system > <https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2012/xv6.html> > > 5 - Advanced Linux Programming > > <https://richard.esplins.org/static/downloads/linux_book.pdf> > 6 - Linux Networking <http://linux-training.be/linuxnet.pdf> > > Hope this helps - Aruna > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Kernelnewbies mailing list > Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org > https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies > -- Regards, Rishi Agrawal [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2475 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 170 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2020-03-15 11:12 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2020-02-19 15:54 New text Ruben Safir 2020-02-19 21:36 ` Valdis Klētnieks 2020-02-19 23:17 ` Ruben Safir 2020-02-20 20:12 ` Valdis Klētnieks 2020-02-20 21:06 ` Ruben Safir 2020-02-19 23:43 ` Robert P. J. Day 2020-02-20 1:55 ` Ruben Safir 2020-02-23 3:51 ` Aruna Hewapathirane 2020-03-15 11:10 ` Rishi Agrawal
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