From: Mike Rapoport <rppt@linux.ibm.com>
To: Chris Mason <clm@fb.com>
Cc: "ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
<ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
"tech-board-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
<tech-board-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
Chris Mason <clm@fb.clm>, Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH] CodingStyle: Inclusive Terminology
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 19:06:38 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200706160638.GG2999146@linux.ibm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <798B0FBF-D7A8-4631-8581-5D199DA50FF9@fb.com>
Hi Chris,
On Mon, Jul 06, 2020 at 12:45:34PM +0000, Chris Mason via Ksummit-discuss wrote:
> On 5 Jul 2020, at 0:55, Willy Tarreau wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Jul 04, 2020 at 01:02:51PM -0700, Dan Williams wrote:
> >> +Non-inclusive terminology has that same distracting effect which is
> >> why
> >> +it is a style issue for Linux, it injures developer efficiency.
> >
> > I'm personally thinking that for a non-native speaker it's already
> > difficult to find the best term to describe something, but having to
> > apply an extra level of filtering on the found words to figure whether
> > they are allowed by the language police is even more difficult.
>
> Since our discussions are public, we’ve always had to deal with
> comments from people outside the community on a range of topics. But
> inside the kernel, it’s just a group of developers trying to help each
> other produce the best quality of code. We’ve got a long history
> together and in general I think we’re pretty good at assuming good
> intent.
I don't think anybody doubts your intentions. But they say, the road to
hell is paved with good intentions.
I had a "privilege" to live in the USSR and back there Newspeak was not a
fiction but a reality.
And despite the good intent, I have a really strong feeling that this
could be a step in a wrong direction...
> > *This*
> > injures developers efficiency. What could improve developers
> > efficiency
> > is to take care of removing *all* idiomatic or cultural words then.
> > For
> > example I've been participating to projects using the term
> > "blueprint",
> > I didn't understand what that meant. It was once explained to me and
> > given that it had no logical reason for being called this way, I now
> > forgot. If we follow your reasoning, Such words should be banned for
> > exactly the same reasons. Same for colors that probably don't mean
> > anything to those born blind.
> >
> > For example if in my local culture we eat tomatoes at starters and
> > apples for dessert, it could be convenient for me to use "tomato" and
> > "apple" as list elements to name the pointers leading to the beginning
> > and the end of the list, and it might sound obvious to many people,
> > but
> > not at all for many others.
> >
> > Maybe instead of providing an explicit list of a few words it should
> > simply say that terms that take their roots in the non-technical world
> > and whose meaning can only be understood based on history or local
> > culture ought to be avoided, because *that* actually is the real
> > root cause of the problem you're trying to address.
>
> I’d definitely agree that it’s a good goal to keep out non-technical
> terms. Even though we already try, every subsystem has its own set of
> patterns that reflect the most frequent contributors.
>
> -chris
> _______________________________________________
> Ksummit-discuss mailing list
> Ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ksummit-discuss
--
Sincerely yours,
Mike.
_______________________________________________
Ksummit-discuss mailing list
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-07-06 16:07 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 90+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-07-04 20:02 [Ksummit-discuss] [PATCH] CodingStyle: Inclusive Terminology Dan Williams
2020-07-04 20:31 ` Randy Dunlap
2020-07-04 23:41 ` Dave Airlie
2020-07-05 0:10 ` Matthew Wilcox
2020-07-05 1:10 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " Kees Cook
2020-07-05 2:44 ` Randy Dunlap
2020-07-06 11:15 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-06 15:53 ` Kees Cook
2020-07-05 2:54 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Dave Airlie
2020-07-04 20:44 ` Stephen Rothwell
2020-07-04 23:34 ` Dave Airlie
2020-07-05 2:12 ` Stephen Rothwell
2020-07-05 2:56 ` Dave Airlie
2020-07-05 3:23 ` James Bottomley
2020-07-05 3:26 ` Stephen Rothwell
2020-07-04 21:14 ` Olof Johansson
2020-07-04 21:25 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " James Bottomley
2020-07-04 21:51 ` Joe Perches
2020-07-04 23:39 ` Dave Airlie
2020-07-05 0:08 ` Joe Perches
2020-07-05 1:32 ` Kees Cook
2020-07-05 17:50 ` opal hart
2020-07-04 23:42 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Dave Airlie
2020-07-05 0:12 ` Matthew Wilcox
2020-07-06 7:06 ` NeilBrown
2020-07-06 7:10 ` NeilBrown
2020-07-06 7:22 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-07-06 7:53 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2020-07-06 10:22 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-07-06 12:51 ` Matthew Wilcox
2020-07-06 12:59 ` Joe Perches
2020-07-06 13:04 ` Matthew Wilcox
2020-07-06 13:30 ` Joe Perches
2020-07-09 11:11 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2020-07-13 4:25 ` Vinod Koul
2020-07-13 15:55 ` Dan Williams
2020-07-05 0:41 ` Kees Cook
2020-07-07 4:30 ` Dan Williams
2020-07-10 16:52 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-05 4:55 ` Willy Tarreau
2020-07-06 3:13 ` Daniel Palmer
2020-07-06 12:45 ` Chris Mason via Ksummit-discuss
2020-07-06 14:06 ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-07-06 15:55 ` Chris Mason via Ksummit-discuss
2020-07-06 16:06 ` Mike Rapoport [this message]
2020-07-07 4:17 ` Dan Williams
2020-07-06 15:22 ` Arvind Sankar
2020-07-06 15:40 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " Steven Rostedt
2020-07-06 13:23 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Tibor Raschko
2020-07-06 16:29 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-07 4:00 ` Dan Williams
2020-07-07 5:56 ` Kees Cook
2020-07-07 6:49 ` Mike Rapoport
2020-07-07 13:37 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " Steven Rostedt
2020-07-07 15:24 ` Bird, Tim
2020-07-07 15:33 ` Randy Dunlap
2020-07-07 15:41 ` Steven Rostedt
2020-07-07 15:55 ` Bird, Tim
2020-07-07 6:56 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Harrosh, Boaz
2020-07-07 8:54 ` Kees Cook
2020-07-07 13:41 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " Steven Rostedt
2020-07-07 14:45 ` Mike Rapoport
2020-07-07 20:56 ` Kees Cook
2020-07-07 21:48 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Arvind Sankar
2020-07-07 12:13 ` Mark Brown
2020-07-06 18:30 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " Shuah Khan
2020-07-06 23:58 ` Tibor Raschko
[not found] ` <20200709124327.369781a0@coco.lan>
2020-07-09 16:01 ` Shuah Khan
2020-07-09 16:13 ` Mark Brown
2020-07-09 16:32 ` James Bottomley
2020-07-09 16:35 ` Steven Rostedt
2020-07-07 4:04 ` Dan Williams
2020-07-06 19:15 ` Mark Brown
2020-07-07 0:48 ` Tibor Raschko
2020-07-07 21:26 ` Arvind Sankar
2020-07-07 23:54 ` Tibor Raschko
2020-07-07 4:08 ` Dan Williams
2020-07-07 9:36 ` Mark Brown
2020-07-06 21:31 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-06 22:10 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " Steven Rostedt
2020-07-06 22:17 ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-06 22:28 ` Steven Rostedt
2020-07-06 23:03 ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-08 3:42 ` Stephen Hemminger
2020-07-07 6:56 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " SeongJae Park via Ksummit-discuss
2020-07-08 7:12 ` Dan Williams
2020-07-08 9:28 ` SeongJae Park via Ksummit-discuss
2020-07-07 7:51 ` Christian Brauner
2020-07-17 8:35 ` Pavel Machek
2020-07-26 15:30 ` Laurent Pinchart
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