From: Yu Kuai <yukuai1@huaweicloud.com>
To: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Yu Kuai <yukuai1@huaweicloud.com>
Cc: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
paolo.valente@linaro.org, axboe@kernel.dk,
linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
yi.zhang@huawei.com, "yukuai (C)" <yukuai3@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 3/5] block, bfq: don't disable wbt if CONFIG_BFQ_GROUP_IOSCHED is disabled
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 09:02:31 +0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <84f52be5-0fc4-ad22-d1ce-27e3dbc28fe7@huaweicloud.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20220926142242.mxrkbs63ynmhulib@quack3>
Hi, Jan
在 2022/09/26 22:22, Jan Kara 写道:
> Hi Kuai!
>
> On Mon 26-09-22 21:00:48, Yu Kuai wrote:
>> 在 2022/09/23 19:03, Jan Kara 写道:
>>> Hi Kuai!
>>>
>>> On Fri 23-09-22 18:23:03, Yu Kuai wrote:
>>>> 在 2022/09/23 18:06, Jan Kara 写道:
>>>>> On Fri 23-09-22 17:50:49, Yu Kuai wrote:
>>>>>> Hi, Christoph
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 在 2022/09/23 16:56, Christoph Hellwig 写道:
>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 07:35:56PM +0800, Yu Kuai wrote:
>>>>>>>> wbt and bfq should work just fine if CONFIG_BFQ_GROUP_IOSCHED is disabled.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Umm, wouldn't this be something decided at runtime, that is not
>>>>>>> if CONFIG_BFQ_GROUP_IOSCHED is enable/disable in the kernel build
>>>>>>> if the hierarchical cgroup based scheduling is actually used for a
>>>>>>> given device?
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a good point,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Before this patch wbt is simply disabled if elevator is bfq.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With this patch, if elevator is bfq while bfq doesn't throttle
>>>>>> any IO yet, wbt still is disabled unnecessarily.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not really disabled unnecessarily. Have you actually tested the
>>>>> performance of the combination? I did once and the results were just
>>>>> horrible (which is I made BFQ just disable wbt by default). The problem is
>>>>> that blk-wbt assumes certain model of underlying storage stack and hardware
>>>>> behavior and BFQ just does not fit in that model. For example BFQ wants to
>>>>> see as many requests as possible so that it can heavily reorder them,
>>>>> estimate think times of applications, etc. On the other hand blk-wbt
>>>>> assumes that if request latency gets higher, it means there is too much IO
>>>>> going on and we need to allow less of "lower priority" IO types to be
>>>>> submitted. These two go directly against one another and I was easily
>>>>> observing blk-wbt spiraling down to allowing only very small number of
>>>>> requests submitted while BFQ was idling waiting for more IO from the
>>>>> process that was currently scheduled.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your explanation, I understand that bfq and wbt should not
>>>> work together.
>>>>
>>>> However, I wonder if CONFIG_BFQ_GROUP_IOSCHED is disabled, or service
>>>> guarantee is not needed, does the above phenomenon still exist? I find
>>>> it hard to understand... Perhaps I need to do some test.
>>>
>>> Well, BFQ implements for example idling on sync IO queues which is one of
>>> the features that upsets blk-wbt. That does not depend on
>>> CONFIG_BFQ_GROUP_IOSCHED in any way. Also generally the idea that BFQ
>>> assigns storage *time slots* to different processes and IO from other
>>> processes is just queued at those times increases IO completion
>>> latency (for IOs of processes that are not currently scheduled) and this
>>> tends to confuse blk-wbt.
>>>
>> Hi, Jan
>>
>> Just to be curious, have you ever think about or tested wbt with
>> io-cost? And even more, how bfq work with io-cost?
>>
>> I haven't tested yet, but it seems to me some of them can work well
>> together.
>
> No, I didn't test these combinations. I actually expect there would be
> troubles in both cases under high IO load but you can try :)
Just realize I made a clerical error, I actually want to saied that
*can't* work well together.
I'll try to have a test the combinations.
Thanks,
Kuai
>
> Honza
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-09-27 1:02 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 23+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-09-22 11:35 [PATCH v3 0/5] blk-wbt: simple improvment to enable wbt correctly Yu Kuai
2022-09-22 11:35 ` [PATCH v3 1/5] wbt: don't show valid wbt_lat_usec in sysfs while wbt is disabled Yu Kuai
2022-09-26 9:44 ` Jan Kara
2022-09-26 10:25 ` Yu Kuai
2022-09-26 11:47 ` Jan Kara
2022-09-26 13:01 ` Yu Kuai
2022-09-22 11:35 ` [PATCH v3 2/5] elevator: add new field flags in struct elevator_queue Yu Kuai
2022-09-22 11:35 ` [PATCH v3 3/5] block, bfq: don't disable wbt if CONFIG_BFQ_GROUP_IOSCHED is disabled Yu Kuai
2022-09-23 8:56 ` Christoph Hellwig
2022-09-23 9:50 ` Yu Kuai
2022-09-23 10:06 ` Jan Kara
2022-09-23 10:23 ` Yu Kuai
2022-09-23 11:03 ` Jan Kara
2022-09-23 11:32 ` Yu Kuai
2022-09-26 13:00 ` Yu Kuai
2022-09-26 14:22 ` Jan Kara
2022-09-27 1:02 ` Yu Kuai [this message]
2022-09-27 16:14 ` Paolo Valente
2022-09-28 3:30 ` Yu Kuai
2022-09-22 11:35 ` [PATCH v3 4/5] blk-wbt: don't enable throttling if default elevator is bfq Yu Kuai
2022-09-22 11:35 ` [PATCH v3 5/5] elevator: remove redundant code in elv_unregister_queue() Yu Kuai
2022-09-23 3:37 ` Eric Biggers
2022-09-23 8:53 ` Christoph Hellwig
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=84f52be5-0fc4-ad22-d1ce-27e3dbc28fe7@huaweicloud.com \
--to=yukuai1@huaweicloud.com \
--cc=axboe@kernel.dk \
--cc=hch@infradead.org \
--cc=jack@suse.cz \
--cc=linux-block@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=paolo.valente@linaro.org \
--cc=yi.zhang@huawei.com \
--cc=yukuai3@huawei.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).