From: Paolo Valente <paolo.valente@linaro.org>
To: Yu Kuai <yukuai1@huaweicloud.com>
Cc: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>,
linux-block <linux-block@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
yi.zhang@huawei.com, "yukuai (C)" <yukuai3@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 3/5] block, bfq: don't disable wbt if CONFIG_BFQ_GROUP_IOSCHED is disabled
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 18:14:39 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <E29E2557-9D79-40A3-B0EA-5EBAD6DD5A1F@linaro.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <84f52be5-0fc4-ad22-d1ce-27e3dbc28fe7@huaweicloud.com>
> Il giorno 27 set 2022, alle ore 03:02, Yu Kuai <yukuai1@huaweicloud.com> ha scritto:
>
> Hi, Jan
>
> 在 2022/09/26 22:22, Jan Kara 写道:
>> Hi Kuai!
>> On Mon 26-09-22 21:00:48, Yu Kuai wrote:
>>> 在 2022/09/23 19:03, Jan Kara 写道:
>>>> Hi Kuai!
>>>>
>>>> On Fri 23-09-22 18:23:03, Yu Kuai wrote:
>>>>> 在 2022/09/23 18:06, Jan Kara 写道:
>>>>>> On Fri 23-09-22 17:50:49, Yu Kuai wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi, Christoph
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 在 2022/09/23 16:56, Christoph Hellwig 写道:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 07:35:56PM +0800, Yu Kuai wrote:
>>>>>>>>> wbt and bfq should work just fine if CONFIG_BFQ_GROUP_IOSCHED is disabled.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Umm, wouldn't this be something decided at runtime, that is not
>>>>>>>> if CONFIG_BFQ_GROUP_IOSCHED is enable/disable in the kernel build
>>>>>>>> if the hierarchical cgroup based scheduling is actually used for a
>>>>>>>> given device?
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's a good point,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Before this patch wbt is simply disabled if elevator is bfq.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With this patch, if elevator is bfq while bfq doesn't throttle
>>>>>>> any IO yet, wbt still is disabled unnecessarily.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is not really disabled unnecessarily. Have you actually tested the
>>>>>> performance of the combination? I did once and the results were just
>>>>>> horrible (which is I made BFQ just disable wbt by default). The problem is
>>>>>> that blk-wbt assumes certain model of underlying storage stack and hardware
>>>>>> behavior and BFQ just does not fit in that model. For example BFQ wants to
>>>>>> see as many requests as possible so that it can heavily reorder them,
>>>>>> estimate think times of applications, etc. On the other hand blk-wbt
>>>>>> assumes that if request latency gets higher, it means there is too much IO
>>>>>> going on and we need to allow less of "lower priority" IO types to be
>>>>>> submitted. These two go directly against one another and I was easily
>>>>>> observing blk-wbt spiraling down to allowing only very small number of
>>>>>> requests submitted while BFQ was idling waiting for more IO from the
>>>>>> process that was currently scheduled.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your explanation, I understand that bfq and wbt should not
>>>>> work together.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, I wonder if CONFIG_BFQ_GROUP_IOSCHED is disabled, or service
>>>>> guarantee is not needed, does the above phenomenon still exist? I find
>>>>> it hard to understand... Perhaps I need to do some test.
>>>>
>>>> Well, BFQ implements for example idling on sync IO queues which is one of
>>>> the features that upsets blk-wbt. That does not depend on
>>>> CONFIG_BFQ_GROUP_IOSCHED in any way. Also generally the idea that BFQ
>>>> assigns storage *time slots* to different processes and IO from other
>>>> processes is just queued at those times increases IO completion
>>>> latency (for IOs of processes that are not currently scheduled) and this
>>>> tends to confuse blk-wbt.
>>>>
>>> Hi, Jan
>>>
>>> Just to be curious, have you ever think about or tested wbt with
>>> io-cost? And even more, how bfq work with io-cost?
>>>
>>> I haven't tested yet, but it seems to me some of them can work well
>>> together.
>> No, I didn't test these combinations. I actually expect there would be
>> troubles in both cases under high IO load but you can try :)
>
> Just realize I made a clerical error, I actually want to saied that
> *can't* work well together.
>
You are right, they can't work together, conceptually. Their logics would simply keep conflicting, and none of the two would make ti to control IO as desired.
Thanks,
Paolo
> I'll try to have a test the combinations.
>
> Thanks,
> Kuai
>> Honza
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-09-27 16:14 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 23+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-09-22 11:35 [PATCH v3 0/5] blk-wbt: simple improvment to enable wbt correctly Yu Kuai
2022-09-22 11:35 ` [PATCH v3 1/5] wbt: don't show valid wbt_lat_usec in sysfs while wbt is disabled Yu Kuai
2022-09-26 9:44 ` Jan Kara
2022-09-26 10:25 ` Yu Kuai
2022-09-26 11:47 ` Jan Kara
2022-09-26 13:01 ` Yu Kuai
2022-09-22 11:35 ` [PATCH v3 2/5] elevator: add new field flags in struct elevator_queue Yu Kuai
2022-09-22 11:35 ` [PATCH v3 3/5] block, bfq: don't disable wbt if CONFIG_BFQ_GROUP_IOSCHED is disabled Yu Kuai
2022-09-23 8:56 ` Christoph Hellwig
2022-09-23 9:50 ` Yu Kuai
2022-09-23 10:06 ` Jan Kara
2022-09-23 10:23 ` Yu Kuai
2022-09-23 11:03 ` Jan Kara
2022-09-23 11:32 ` Yu Kuai
2022-09-26 13:00 ` Yu Kuai
2022-09-26 14:22 ` Jan Kara
2022-09-27 1:02 ` Yu Kuai
2022-09-27 16:14 ` Paolo Valente [this message]
2022-09-28 3:30 ` Yu Kuai
2022-09-22 11:35 ` [PATCH v3 4/5] blk-wbt: don't enable throttling if default elevator is bfq Yu Kuai
2022-09-22 11:35 ` [PATCH v3 5/5] elevator: remove redundant code in elv_unregister_queue() Yu Kuai
2022-09-23 3:37 ` Eric Biggers
2022-09-23 8:53 ` Christoph Hellwig
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