From: Amir Goldstein <amir73il@gmail.com>
To: NeilBrown <neilb@suse.de>
Cc: Zygo Blaxell <ce3g8jdj@umail.furryterror.org>,
Neal Gompa <ngompa13@gmail.com>,
Wang Yugui <wangyugui@e16-tech.com>,
Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
Josef Bacik <josef@toxicpanda.com>,
"J. Bruce Fields" <bfields@fieldses.org>,
Chuck Lever <chuck.lever@oracle.com>, Chris Mason <clm@fb.com>,
David Sterba <dsterba@suse.com>,
Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
Linux NFS Mailing List <linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org>,
Btrfs BTRFS <linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH/RFC 00/11] expose btrfs subvols in mount table correctly
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 08:28:05 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAOQ4uxiZW6jXUb7iLhfaMJ-OS2PigL-dRrfQ5AB3QkLmoJu=jg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <162761259105.21659.4838403432058511846@noble.neil.brown.name>
On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 5:41 AM NeilBrown <neilb@suse.de> wrote:
>
>
> I've been pondering all the excellent feedback, and what I have learnt
> from examining the code in btrfs, and I have developed a different
> perspective.
>
> Maybe "subvol" is a poor choice of name because it conjures up
> connections with the Volumes in LVM, and btrfs subvols are very different
> things. Btrfs subvols are really just subtrees that can be treated as a
> unit for operations like "clone" or "destroy".
>
> As such, they don't really deserve separate st_dev numbers.
>
> Maybe the different st_dev numbers were introduced as a "cheap" way to
> extend to size of the inode-number space. Like many "cheap" things, it
> has hidden costs.
>
> Maybe objects in different subvols should still be given different inode
> numbers. This would be problematic on 32bit systems, but much less so on
> 64bit systems.
>
> The patch below, which is just a proof-of-concept, changes btrfs to
> report a uniform st_dev, and different (64bit) st_ino in different subvols.
>
> It has problems:
> - it will break any 32bit readdir and 32bit stat. I don't know how big
> a problem that is these days (ino_t in the kernel is "unsigned long",
> not "unsigned long long). That surprised me).
> - It might break some user-space expectations. One thing I have learnt
> is not to make any assumption about what other people might expect.
>
> However, it would be quite easy to make this opt-in (or opt-out) with a
> mount option, so that people who need the current inode numbers and will
> accept the current breakage can keep working.
>
> I think this approach would be a net-win for NFS export, whether BTRFS
> supports it directly or not. I might post a patch which modifies NFS to
> intuit improved inode numbers for btrfsdemostrates exports....
>
> So: how would this break your use-case??
The simple cases are find -xdev and du -x which expect the st_dev
change, but that can be excused if opting in to a unified st_dev namespace.
The harder problem is <st_dev;st_ino> collisions which are not even
that hard to hit with unlimited number of snapshots.
The 'diff' tool demonstrates the implications of <st_dev;st_ino>
collisions for different objects on userspace.
See xfstest overlay/049 for a demonstration.
The overlayfs xino feature made a similar change to overlayfs
<st_dev;st_ino> with one big difference - applications expect that
all objects in overlayfs mount will have the same st_dev.
Also, overlayfs has prior knowledge on the number of layers
so it is easier to parcel the ino namespace and avoid collisions.
Thanks,
Amir.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-07-30 5:28 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 122+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-07-27 22:37 [PATCH/RFC 00/11] expose btrfs subvols in mount table correctly NeilBrown
2021-07-27 22:37 ` [PATCH 07/11] exportfs: Allow filehandle lookup to cross internal mount points NeilBrown
2021-07-28 10:13 ` Amir Goldstein
2021-07-29 0:28 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-29 5:27 ` Amir Goldstein
2021-08-06 7:52 ` Miklos Szeredi
2021-08-06 8:08 ` Amir Goldstein
2021-08-06 8:18 ` Miklos Szeredi
2021-07-28 19:17 ` J. Bruce Fields
2021-07-28 22:25 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-27 22:37 ` [PATCH 04/11] VFS: export lookup_mnt() NeilBrown
2021-07-30 0:31 ` Al Viro
2021-07-30 5:33 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-27 22:37 ` [PATCH 01/11] VFS: show correct dev num in mountinfo NeilBrown
2021-07-30 0:25 ` Al Viro
2021-07-30 5:28 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-30 5:54 ` Miklos Szeredi
2021-07-30 6:13 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-30 7:18 ` Miklos Szeredi
2021-07-30 7:33 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-30 7:59 ` Miklos Szeredi
2021-08-02 4:18 ` A Third perspective on BTRFS nfsd subvol dev/inode number issues NeilBrown
2021-08-02 5:25 ` Al Viro
2021-08-02 5:40 ` NeilBrown
2021-08-02 7:54 ` Amir Goldstein
2021-08-02 13:53 ` Josef Bacik
2021-08-03 22:29 ` Qu Wenruo
2021-08-02 14:47 ` Frank Filz
2021-08-02 21:24 ` NeilBrown
2021-08-02 7:15 ` Martin Steigerwald
2021-08-02 21:40 ` NeilBrown
2021-08-02 12:39 ` J. Bruce Fields
2021-08-02 20:32 ` Patrick Goetz
2021-08-02 20:41 ` J. Bruce Fields
2021-08-02 21:10 ` NeilBrown
2021-08-02 21:50 ` J. Bruce Fields
2021-08-02 21:59 ` NeilBrown
2021-08-02 22:14 ` J. Bruce Fields
2021-08-02 22:36 ` NeilBrown
2021-08-03 0:15 ` J. Bruce Fields
2021-07-27 22:37 ` [PATCH 03/11] VFS: pass lookup_flags into follow_down() NeilBrown
2021-07-27 22:37 ` [PATCH 11/11] btrfs: use automount to bind-mount all subvol roots NeilBrown
2021-07-28 8:37 ` kernel test robot
2021-07-28 8:37 ` [RFC PATCH] btrfs: btrfs_mountpoint_expiry_timeout can be static kernel test robot
2021-07-28 13:12 ` [PATCH 11/11] btrfs: use automount to bind-mount all subvol roots Christian Brauner
2021-07-29 0:43 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-29 14:38 ` Christian Brauner
2021-07-31 6:25 ` [btrfs] 5874902268: xfstests.btrfs.202.fail kernel test robot
2021-07-27 22:37 ` [PATCH 06/11] nfsd: include a vfsmount in struct svc_fh NeilBrown
2021-07-27 22:37 ` [PATCH 10/11] btrfs: introduce mapping function from location to inum NeilBrown
2021-07-27 22:37 ` [PATCH 02/11] VFS: allow d_automount to create in-place bind-mount NeilBrown
2021-07-27 22:37 ` [PATCH 09/11] nfsd: Allow filehandle lookup to cross internal mount points NeilBrown
2021-07-28 19:15 ` J. Bruce Fields
2021-07-28 22:29 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-30 0:42 ` Al Viro
2021-07-30 5:43 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-27 22:37 ` [PATCH 08/11] nfsd: change get_parent_attributes() to nfsd_get_mounted_on() NeilBrown
2021-07-27 22:37 ` [PATCH 05/11] VFS: new function: mount_is_internal() NeilBrown
2021-07-28 2:16 ` Al Viro
2021-07-28 3:32 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-30 0:34 ` Al Viro
2021-07-28 2:19 ` [PATCH/RFC 00/11] expose btrfs subvols in mount table correctly Al Viro
2021-07-28 4:58 ` Wang Yugui
2021-07-28 6:04 ` Wang Yugui
2021-07-28 7:01 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-28 12:26 ` Neal Gompa
2021-07-28 19:14 ` J. Bruce Fields
2021-07-29 1:29 ` Zygo Blaxell
2021-07-29 1:43 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-29 23:20 ` Zygo Blaxell
2021-07-28 22:50 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-29 2:37 ` Zygo Blaxell
2021-07-29 3:36 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-29 23:20 ` Zygo Blaxell
2021-07-30 2:36 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-30 5:25 ` Qu Wenruo
2021-07-30 5:31 ` Qu Wenruo
2021-07-30 5:53 ` Amir Goldstein
2021-07-30 6:00 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-30 6:09 ` Qu Wenruo
2021-07-30 5:58 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-30 6:23 ` Qu Wenruo
2021-07-30 6:53 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-30 7:09 ` Qu Wenruo
2021-07-30 18:15 ` Zygo Blaxell
2021-07-30 15:17 ` J. Bruce Fields
2021-07-30 15:48 ` Josef Bacik
2021-07-30 16:25 ` Forza
2021-07-30 17:43 ` Zygo Blaxell
2021-07-30 5:28 ` Amir Goldstein [this message]
2021-07-28 13:43 ` g.btrfs
2021-07-29 1:39 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-29 9:28 ` Graham Cobb
2021-07-28 7:06 ` NeilBrown
2021-07-28 9:36 ` Wang Yugui
2021-07-28 19:35 ` J. Bruce Fields
2021-07-28 21:30 ` Josef Bacik
2021-07-30 0:13 ` Al Viro
2021-07-30 6:08 ` NeilBrown
2021-08-13 1:45 ` [PATCH] VFS/BTRFS/NFSD: provide more unique inode number for btrfs export NeilBrown
2021-08-13 14:55 ` Josef Bacik
2021-08-15 7:39 ` Goffredo Baroncelli
2021-08-15 19:35 ` Roman Mamedov
2021-08-15 21:03 ` Goffredo Baroncelli
2021-08-15 21:53 ` NeilBrown
2021-08-17 19:34 ` Goffredo Baroncelli
2021-08-17 21:39 ` NeilBrown
2021-08-18 17:24 ` Goffredo Baroncelli
2021-08-15 22:17 ` NeilBrown
2021-08-19 8:01 ` Amir Goldstein
2021-08-20 3:21 ` NeilBrown
2021-08-20 6:23 ` Amir Goldstein
2021-08-23 4:05 ` [PATCH v2] BTRFS/NFSD: " NeilBrown
2021-08-18 14:54 ` [PATCH] VFS/BTRFS/NFSD: " Wang Yugui
2021-08-18 21:46 ` NeilBrown
2021-08-19 2:19 ` Zygo Blaxell
2021-08-20 2:54 ` NeilBrown
2021-08-22 19:29 ` Zygo Blaxell
2021-08-23 5:51 ` NeilBrown
2021-08-23 23:22 ` NeilBrown
2021-08-25 2:06 ` Zygo Blaxell
2021-08-23 0:57 ` Wang Yugui
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