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From: "Darrick J. Wong" <darrick.wong@oracle.com>
To: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>
Cc: Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>,
	Brian Foster <bfoster@redhat.com>,
	Allison Collins <allison.henderson@oracle.com>,
	Amir Goldstein <amir73il@gmail.com>,
	lsf-pc@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	xfs <linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org>, Eryu Guan <guaneryu@gmail.com>,
	Eric Sandeen <sandeen@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [Lsf-pc] [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] FS Maintainers Don't Scale
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 16:29:16 -0800
Message-ID: <20200219002916.GB9506@magnolia> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200216215556.GZ10776@dread.disaster.area>

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 08:55:56AM +1100, Dave Chinner wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 07:46:32AM -0800, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:11:00AM -0500, Brian Foster wrote:
> > > With regard to the burnout thing, ISTM the core functionality of the
> > > maintainer is to maintain the integrity of the subtree. That involves
> > > things like enforcing development process (i.e., requiring r-b tags on
> > > all patches to merge), but not necessarily being obligated to resolve
> > > conflicts or to review every patch that comes through in detail, or
> > > guarantee that everything sent to the list makes it into the next
> > > release, etc. If certain things aren't being reviewed in time or making
> > > progress and that somehow results in additional pressure on the
> > > maintainer, ISTM that something is wrong there..?
> > > 
> > > On a more logistical note, didn't we (XFS) discuss the idea of a
> > > rotating maintainership at one point? I know Dave had dealt with burnout
> > > after doing this job for quite some time, Darrick stepped in and it
> > > sounds like he is now feeling it as well (and maybe Eric, having to hold
> > > down the xfsprogs fort). I'm not maintainer nor do I really want to be,
> > > but I'd be willing to contribute to maintainer like duties on a limited
> > > basis if there's a need. For example, if we had a per-release rotation
> > > of 3+ people willing to contribute, perhaps that could spread the pain
> > > around sufficiently..? Just a thought, and of course not being a
> > > maintainer I have no idea how realistic something like that might be..
> > 
> > Not being an XFS person, I don't want to impose anything, but have
> > you read/seen Dan Vetter's talk on this subject?
> > https://blog.ffwll.ch/2017/01/maintainers-dont-scale.html (plenty of
> > links to follow, including particularly https://lwn.net/Articles/705228/ )
> 
> Yes, and I've talked to Dan in great detail about it over several
> past LCAs... :)
> 
> > It seems like the XFS development community might benefit from a
> > group maintainer model.
> 
> Yes, it may well do. The problem is the pool of XFS developers is
> *much smaller* than the graphics subsystem and so a "group
> maintainership" if kinda what we do already. I mean, I do have
> commit rights to the XFS trees kernel.org, even though I'm not a
> maintainer. I'm essentially the backup at this point - if someone
> needs to take time off, I'll take over.
> 
> I think the biggest barrier to maintaining the XFS tree is the
> amount of integration testing that the maintainer does on the merged
> tree.  That's non-trivial, especially with how long it takes to run
> fstests these days. If you're not set up to run QA 24x7 across a
> bunch of different configs, then you need to get that into place
> before being able to do the job of maintaining the XFS kernel
> tree...
> 
> If everyone had that capability and resources at their disposal, then
> rotating the tree maintenance responsibilities would be much
> easier...

I kinda wish the LF or someone would open such a program to the kernel
maintainers.  I never liked that old maxim, "The maintainer is [the
stuckee] with the most testing resources" -- there shouldn't really have
to be a djwong cloud and a dchinner cloud. :/

--D

> Cheers,
> 
> Dave.
> -- 
> Dave Chinner
> david@fromorbit.com

  reply index

Thread overview: 27+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-01-31  5:25 Darrick J. Wong
2020-01-31  7:30 ` [Lsf-pc] " Amir Goldstein
2020-02-01  3:20   ` Allison Collins
2020-02-02 21:46     ` Dave Chinner
2020-02-09 17:12       ` Allison Collins
2020-02-12  0:21         ` NeilBrown
2020-02-12  6:58           ` Darrick J. Wong
2020-02-12 22:06         ` Darrick J. Wong
2020-02-12 22:19           ` Dan Williams
2020-02-12 22:36             ` Darrick J. Wong
2020-02-13 15:11           ` Brian Foster
2020-02-13 15:46             ` Matthew Wilcox
2020-02-16 21:55               ` Dave Chinner
2020-02-19  0:29                 ` Darrick J. Wong [this message]
2020-02-19  1:17                   ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2020-02-12 23:39         ` Dave Chinner
2020-02-13 15:19           ` Brian Foster
2020-02-17  0:11             ` Dave Chinner
2020-02-17 15:01               ` Brian Foster
2020-02-12 21:36       ` Darrick J. Wong
2020-02-12 22:42   ` Darrick J. Wong
2020-02-13 10:21     ` Amir Goldstein
2020-02-07 22:03 ` Matthew Wilcox
2020-02-12  3:51   ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2020-02-12 22:29     ` Darrick J. Wong
2020-02-12 22:21   ` Darrick J. Wong
2020-02-13  1:23     ` Dave Chinner

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