Re: [FYI] tux3: Core changes

[Raymond Jennings <shentino@gmail.com>]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4089 bytes --]

Returning ENOSPC when you have free space you can't yet prove is safer than
not returning it and risking a data loss when you get hit by a write/commit
storm. :)

On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 9:44 PM, OGAWA Hirofumi <hirofumi@mail.parknet.co.jp
> wrote:

> Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz> writes:
>
> >> > Yes, if userspace truncates the file, the situation we end up with is
> >> > basically the same. However for truncate to happen some malicious
> process
> >> > has to come and truncate the file - a failure scenario that is
> acceptable
> >> > for most use cases since it doesn't happen unless someone is actively
> >> > trying to screw you. With page forking it is enough for flusher thread
> >> > to start writeback for that page to trigger the problem - event that
> is
> >> > basically bound to happen without any other userspace application
> >> > interfering.
> >>
> >> Acceptable conclusion is where came from? That pseudocode logic doesn't
> >> say about usage at all. And even if assume it is acceptable, as far as I
> >> can see, for example /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches is enough to trigger, or a
> >> page on non-exists block (sparse file. i.e. missing disk space check in
> >> your logic). And if really no any lock/check, there would be another
> >> races.
> >
> > So drop_caches won't cause any issues because it avoids mmaped pages.
> > Also page reclaim or page migration don't cause any issues because
> > they avoid pages with increased refcount (and increased refcount would
> stop
> > drop_caches from reclaiming the page as well if it was not for the mmaped
> > check before). Generally, elevated page refcount currently guarantees
> page
> > isn't migrated, reclaimed, or otherwise detached from the mapping (except
> > for truncate where the combination of mapping-index becomes invalid) and
> > your page forking would change that assumption - which IMHO has a big
> > potential for some breakage somewhere.
>
> Lifetime and visibility from user are different topic.  The issue here
> is visibility. Of course, those has relation more or less though,
> refcount doesn't stop to drop page from radix-tree at all.
>
> Well, anyway, your claim seems to be assuming the userspace app
> workarounds the issues. And it sounds like still not workarounds the
> ENOSPC issue (validate at page fault/GUP) even if assuming userspace
> behave as perfect. Calling it as kernel assumption is strange.
>
> If you claim, there is strange logic widely used already, and of course,
> we can't simply break it because of compatibility. I would be able to
> agree. But your claim sounds like that logic is sane and well designed
> behavior. So I disagree.
>
> > And frankly I fail to see why you and Daniel care so much about this
> > corner case because from performance POV it's IMHO a non-issue and you
> > bother with page forking because of performance, don't you?
>
> Trying to penalize the corner case path, instead of normal path, should
> try at first. Penalizing normal path to allow corner case path is insane
> basically.
>
> Make normal path faster and more reliable is what we are trying.
>
> > So you can have a look for example at
> > drivers/media/v4l2-core/videobuf2-dma-contig.c which implements setting
> up
> > of a video device buffer at virtual address specified by user. Now I
> don't
> > know whether there really is any userspace video program that sets up the
> > video buffer in mmaped file. I would agree with you that it would be a
> > strange thing to do but I've seen enough strange userspace code that I
> > would not be too surprised.
> >
> > Another example of similar kind is at
> > drivers/infiniband/core/umem.c where we again set up buffer for
> infiniband
> > cards at users specified virtual address. And there are more drivers in
> > kernel like that.
>
> Unfortunately, I'm not looking those yet though. I guess those would be
> helpful to see the details.
>
> Thanks.
> --
> OGAWA Hirofumi <hirofumi@mail.parknet.co.jp>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tux3 mailing list
> Tux3@phunq.net
> http://phunq.net/mailman/listinfo/tux3
>

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 5215 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 120 bytes --]

_______________________________________________
Tux3 mailing list
Tux3@phunq.net
http://phunq.net/mailman/listinfo/tux3