Synaptics Multi touch capabilities

Synaptics Multi touch capabilities

[Erik Andrén]

Hi,
I have a ASUS 1005HA netbook equipped with a Synaptics touch pad:
[   18.341491] Synaptics Touchpad, model: 1, fw: 7.2, id: 0x1a0b1,
caps: 0xd04731/0xa40000

In Linux, no multitouch capabilities are detected (Zoom, two and three
finger button presses etc.).
This all works with the same hardware in windows 7.
Is there a bug in the linux driver preventing multitouch to work?

Best regards,
Erik
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Re: Synaptics Multi touch capabilities

[Dmitry Torokhov]

On Wednesday 23 December 2009 03:13:04 am Erik Andrén wrote:
> Hi,
> I have a ASUS 1005HA netbook equipped with a Synaptics touch pad:
> [   18.341491] Synaptics Touchpad, model: 1, fw: 7.2, id: 0x1a0b1,
> caps: 0xd04731/0xa40000
> 
> In Linux, no multitouch capabilities are detected (Zoom, two and three
> finger button presses etc.).
> This all works with the same hardware in windows 7.
> Is there a bug in the linux driver preventing multitouch to work?
> 

Linux Synaptics driver does not have full multitouch support (yet?). The 2- 
and 3- finger taps should work (provided that they are enabled in SYnaptics X 
driver) but there is no multiple finger tracking...

BTW, the capability 0xd04731 indicates that your hardware does not report 
multi-finger taps.

-- 
Dmitry
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Re: Synaptics Multi touch capabilities

[Erik Andrén]

2009/12/23 Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>:
> On Wednesday 23 December 2009 03:13:04 am Erik Andrén wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I have a ASUS 1005HA netbook equipped with a Synaptics touch pad:
>> [   18.341491] Synaptics Touchpad, model: 1, fw: 7.2, id: 0x1a0b1,
>> caps: 0xd04731/0xa40000
>>
>> In Linux, no multitouch capabilities are detected (Zoom, two and three
>> finger button presses etc.).
>> This all works with the same hardware in windows 7.
>> Is there a bug in the linux driver preventing multitouch to work?
>>
>
> Linux Synaptics driver does not have full multitouch support (yet?). The 2-
> and 3- finger taps should work (provided that they are enabled in SYnaptics X
> driver) but there is no multiple finger tracking...
They don't. I've tried with the 1.1.2 and 1.2.0 version of the xorg
synaptics driver. But if this is the issue I guess I should take this
inquiry to the proper xorg mailing list.

>
> BTW, the capability 0xd04731 indicates that your hardware does not report
> multi-finger taps.
>
I'm aware of that, but why does pinch and zoom then work in windows 7?
Is it possible to emulate this with a single touch touchpad?

Best regards,
Erik

> --
> Dmitry
>
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Re: Synaptics Multi touch capabilities

[Dmitry Torokhov]

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 11:54:27AM +0100, Erik Andrén wrote:
> 2009/12/23 Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>:
> > On Wednesday 23 December 2009 03:13:04 am Erik Andrén wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >> I have a ASUS 1005HA netbook equipped with a Synaptics touch pad:
> >> [   18.341491] Synaptics Touchpad, model: 1, fw: 7.2, id: 0x1a0b1,
> >> caps: 0xd04731/0xa40000
> >>
> >> In Linux, no multitouch capabilities are detected (Zoom, two and three
> >> finger button presses etc.).
> >> This all works with the same hardware in windows 7.
> >> Is there a bug in the linux driver preventing multitouch to work?
> >>
> >
> > Linux Synaptics driver does not have full multitouch support (yet?). The 2-
> > and 3- finger taps should work (provided that they are enabled in SYnaptics X
> > driver) but there is no multiple finger tracking...
> They don't. I've tried with the 1.1.2 and 1.2.0 version of the xorg
> synaptics driver. But if this is the issue I guess I should take this
> inquiry to the proper xorg mailing list.

Not yet, kernel needs to add support for this as well.

> 
> >
> > BTW, the capability 0xd04731 indicates that your hardware does not report
> > multi-finger taps.
> >
> I'm aware of that, but why does pinch and zoom then work in windows 7?
> Is it possible to emulate this with a single touch touchpad?
> 

I think your touchpad is a fully multi-finger one, not just multi-finger
tapping like older touchpads. Only multi-finger tapping is currently
supported by Synaptcs X driver.

-- 
Dmitry
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Re: Synaptics Multi touch capabilities

[Erik Andrén]

2009/12/25 Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>:
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 11:54:27AM +0100, Erik Andrén wrote:
>> 2009/12/23 Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>:
>> > On Wednesday 23 December 2009 03:13:04 am Erik Andrén wrote:
>> >> Hi,
>> >> I have a ASUS 1005HA netbook equipped with a Synaptics touch pad:
>> >> [   18.341491] Synaptics Touchpad, model: 1, fw: 7.2, id: 0x1a0b1,
>> >> caps: 0xd04731/0xa40000
>> >>
>> >> In Linux, no multitouch capabilities are detected (Zoom, two and three
>> >> finger button presses etc.).
>> >> This all works with the same hardware in windows 7.
>> >> Is there a bug in the linux driver preventing multitouch to work?
>> >>
>> >
>> > Linux Synaptics driver does not have full multitouch support (yet?). The 2-
>> > and 3- finger taps should work (provided that they are enabled in SYnaptics X
>> > driver) but there is no multiple finger tracking...
>> They don't. I've tried with the 1.1.2 and 1.2.0 version of the xorg
>> synaptics driver. But if this is the issue I guess I should take this
>> inquiry to the proper xorg mailing list.
>
> Not yet, kernel needs to add support for this as well.
>
>>
>> >
>> > BTW, the capability 0xd04731 indicates that your hardware does not report
>> > multi-finger taps.
>> >
>> I'm aware of that, but why does pinch and zoom then work in windows 7?
>> Is it possible to emulate this with a single touch touchpad?
>>
>
> I think your touchpad is a fully multi-finger one, not just multi-finger
> tapping like older touchpads. Only multi-finger tapping is currently
> supported by Synaptcs X driver.
>
Could you elaborate on what a multi-finger touchpad is?
The Synaptics PS/2 Touchpad Interface Guide, 3.2.6 states that two and
three fingers are only detected when the capMultiFinger capability is
detected which according to the driver isn't detected for this
touchpad.

Best regards,
Erik


> --
> Dmitry
>
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Re: Synaptics Multi touch capabilities

[Dmitry Torokhov]

On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 12:54:16PM +0100, Erik Andrén wrote:
> 2009/12/25 Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>:
> > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 11:54:27AM +0100, Erik Andrén wrote:
> >> 2009/12/23 Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>:
> >> > On Wednesday 23 December 2009 03:13:04 am Erik Andrén wrote:
> >> >> Hi,
> >> >> I have a ASUS 1005HA netbook equipped with a Synaptics touch pad:
> >> >> [   18.341491] Synaptics Touchpad, model: 1, fw: 7.2, id: 0x1a0b1,
> >> >> caps: 0xd04731/0xa40000
> >> >>
> >> >> In Linux, no multitouch capabilities are detected (Zoom, two and three
> >> >> finger button presses etc.).
> >> >> This all works with the same hardware in windows 7.
> >> >> Is there a bug in the linux driver preventing multitouch to work?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Linux Synaptics driver does not have full multitouch support (yet?). The 2-
> >> > and 3- finger taps should work (provided that they are enabled in SYnaptics X
> >> > driver) but there is no multiple finger tracking...
> >> They don't. I've tried with the 1.1.2 and 1.2.0 version of the xorg
> >> synaptics driver. But if this is the issue I guess I should take this
> >> inquiry to the proper xorg mailing list.
> >
> > Not yet, kernel needs to add support for this as well.
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> > BTW, the capability 0xd04731 indicates that your hardware does not report
> >> > multi-finger taps.
> >> >
> >> I'm aware of that, but why does pinch and zoom then work in windows 7?
> >> Is it possible to emulate this with a single touch touchpad?
> >>
> >
> > I think your touchpad is a fully multi-finger one, not just multi-finger
> > tapping like older touchpads. Only multi-finger tapping is currently
> > supported by Synaptcs X driver.
> >
> Could you elaborate on what a multi-finger touchpad is?

Multi-finger touchpad (or touchscreen) is a device that can recognize
several objects touching the surface of the device and report separate
sets of coordinates (and maybe more data) for every object.

> The Synaptics PS/2 Touchpad Interface Guide, 3.2.6 states that two and
> three fingers are only detected when the capMultiFinger capability is
> detected which according to the driver isn't detected for this
> touchpad.
> 

Apparently this guide is a bit obsolete.

-- 
Dmitry
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Re: Synaptics Multi touch capabilities

[Erik Andrén]

2009/12/27 Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>:
> On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 12:54:16PM +0100, Erik Andrén wrote:
>> 2009/12/25 Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>:
>> > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 11:54:27AM +0100, Erik Andrén wrote:
>> >> 2009/12/23 Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>:
>> >> > On Wednesday 23 December 2009 03:13:04 am Erik Andrén wrote:
>> >> >> Hi,
>> >> >> I have a ASUS 1005HA netbook equipped with a Synaptics touch pad:
>> >> >> [   18.341491] Synaptics Touchpad, model: 1, fw: 7.2, id: 0x1a0b1,
>> >> >> caps: 0xd04731/0xa40000
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In Linux, no multitouch capabilities are detected (Zoom, two and three
>> >> >> finger button presses etc.).
>> >> >> This all works with the same hardware in windows 7.
>> >> >> Is there a bug in the linux driver preventing multitouch to work?
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Linux Synaptics driver does not have full multitouch support (yet?). The 2-
>> >> > and 3- finger taps should work (provided that they are enabled in SYnaptics X
>> >> > driver) but there is no multiple finger tracking...
>> >> They don't. I've tried with the 1.1.2 and 1.2.0 version of the xorg
>> >> synaptics driver. But if this is the issue I guess I should take this
>> >> inquiry to the proper xorg mailing list.
>> >
>> > Not yet, kernel needs to add support for this as well.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > BTW, the capability 0xd04731 indicates that your hardware does not report
>> >> > multi-finger taps.
>> >> >
>> >> I'm aware of that, but why does pinch and zoom then work in windows 7?
>> >> Is it possible to emulate this with a single touch touchpad?
>> >>
>> >
>> > I think your touchpad is a fully multi-finger one, not just multi-finger
>> > tapping like older touchpads. Only multi-finger tapping is currently
>> > supported by Synaptcs X driver.
>> >
>> Could you elaborate on what a multi-finger touchpad is?
>
> Multi-finger touchpad (or touchscreen) is a device that can recognize
> several objects touching the surface of the device and report separate
> sets of coordinates (and maybe more data) for every object.
>
>> The Synaptics PS/2 Touchpad Interface Guide, 3.2.6 states that two and
>> three fingers are only detected when the capMultiFinger capability is
>> detected which according to the driver isn't detected for this
>> touchpad.
>>
>
> Apparently this guide is a bit obsolete.
>

I've downloaded the document from the synaptics website and it has a
2009 copyright which means its fairly recent.
Are you sure there are any other documentation? If so, do you have any
access to it? Or is this some kind of proprietary interface?

Best regards,
Erik

> --
> Dmitry
>
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Re: Synaptics Multi touch capabilities

[Dmitry Torokhov]

On Dec 27, 2009, at 8:43 AM, Erik Andrén <erik.andren@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2009/12/27 Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>:
>> On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 12:54:16PM +0100, Erik Andrén wrote:
>>> 2009/12/25 Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>:
>>>> On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 11:54:27AM +0100, Erik Andrén wrote:
>>>>> 2009/12/23 Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>:
>>>>>> On Wednesday 23 December 2009 03:13:04 am Erik Andrén wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> I have a ASUS 1005HA netbook equipped with a Synaptics touch  
>>>>>>> pad:
>>>>>>> [   18.341491] Synaptics Touchpad, model: 1, fw: 7.2, id:  
>>>>>>> 0x1a0b1,
>>>>>>> caps: 0xd04731/0xa40000
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In Linux, no multitouch capabilities are detected (Zoom, two  
>>>>>>> and three
>>>>>>> finger button presses etc.).
>>>>>>> This all works with the same hardware in windows 7.
>>>>>>> Is there a bug in the linux driver preventing multitouch to  
>>>>>>> work?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linux Synaptics driver does not have full multitouch support  
>>>>>> (yet?). The 2-
>>>>>> and 3- finger taps should work (provided that they are enabled  
>>>>>> in SYnaptics X
>>>>>> driver) but there is no multiple finger tracking...
>>>>> They don't. I've tried with the 1.1.2 and 1.2.0 version of the  
>>>>> xorg
>>>>> synaptics driver. But if this is the issue I guess I should take  
>>>>> this
>>>>> inquiry to the proper xorg mailing list.
>>>>
>>>> Not yet, kernel needs to add support for this as well.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, the capability 0xd04731 indicates that your hardware does  
>>>>>> not report
>>>>>> multi-finger taps.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'm aware of that, but why does pinch and zoom then work in  
>>>>> windows 7?
>>>>> Is it possible to emulate this with a single touch touchpad?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think your touchpad is a fully multi-finger one, not just multi- 
>>>> finger
>>>> tapping like older touchpads. Only multi-finger tapping is  
>>>> currently
>>>> supported by Synaptcs X driver.
>>>>
>>> Could you elaborate on what a multi-finger touchpad is?
>>
>> Multi-finger touchpad (or touchscreen) is a device that can recognize
>> several objects touching the surface of the device and report  
>> separate
>> sets of coordinates (and maybe more data) for every object.
>>
>>> The Synaptics PS/2 Touchpad Interface Guide, 3.2.6 states that two  
>>> and
>>> three fingers are only detected when the capMultiFinger capability  
>>> is
>>> detected which according to the driver isn't detected for this
>>> touchpad.
>>>
>>
>> Apparently this guide is a bit obsolete.
>>
>
> I've downloaded the document from the synaptics website and it has a
> 2009 copyright which means its fairly recent.

As witnessed by the presence of ClickPads that are not documented  
there it is not complete.

> Are you sure there are any other documentation? If so, do you have any
> access to it? Or is this some kind of proprietary interface?

>
No, I do not.

-- 
Dmitry

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Re: Synaptics Multi touch capabilities

[Erik Andrén]

2009/12/28 Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>:
> On Dec 27, 2009, at 8:43 AM, Erik Andrén <erik.andren@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 2009/12/27 Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 12:54:16PM +0100, Erik Andrén wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 2009/12/25 Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 11:54:27AM +0100, Erik Andrén wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2009/12/23 Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday 23 December 2009 03:13:04 am Erik Andrén wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> I have a ASUS 1005HA netbook equipped with a Synaptics touch pad:
>>>>>>>> [   18.341491] Synaptics Touchpad, model: 1, fw: 7.2, id: 0x1a0b1,
>>>>>>>> caps: 0xd04731/0xa40000
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In Linux, no multitouch capabilities are detected (Zoom, two and
>>>>>>>> three
>>>>>>>> finger button presses etc.).
>>>>>>>> This all works with the same hardware in windows 7.
>>>>>>>> Is there a bug in the linux driver preventing multitouch to work?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Linux Synaptics driver does not have full multitouch support (yet?).
>>>>>>> The 2-
>>>>>>> and 3- finger taps should work (provided that they are enabled in
>>>>>>> SYnaptics X
>>>>>>> driver) but there is no multiple finger tracking...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They don't. I've tried with the 1.1.2 and 1.2.0 version of the xorg
>>>>>> synaptics driver. But if this is the issue I guess I should take this
>>>>>> inquiry to the proper xorg mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not yet, kernel needs to add support for this as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW, the capability 0xd04731 indicates that your hardware does not
>>>>>>> report
>>>>>>> multi-finger taps.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm aware of that, but why does pinch and zoom then work in windows 7?
>>>>>> Is it possible to emulate this with a single touch touchpad?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think your touchpad is a fully multi-finger one, not just
>>>>> multi-finger
>>>>> tapping like older touchpads. Only multi-finger tapping is currently
>>>>> supported by Synaptcs X driver.
>>>>>
>>>> Could you elaborate on what a multi-finger touchpad is?
>>>
>>> Multi-finger touchpad (or touchscreen) is a device that can recognize
>>> several objects touching the surface of the device and report separate
>>> sets of coordinates (and maybe more data) for every object.
>>>
>>>> The Synaptics PS/2 Touchpad Interface Guide, 3.2.6 states that two and
>>>> three fingers are only detected when the capMultiFinger capability is
>>>> detected which according to the driver isn't detected for this
>>>> touchpad.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Apparently this guide is a bit obsolete.
>>>
>>
>> I've downloaded the document from the synaptics website and it has a
>> 2009 copyright which means its fairly recent.
>
> As witnessed by the presence of ClickPads that are not documented there it
> is not complete.
>
>> Are you sure there are any other documentation? If so, do you have any
>> access to it? Or is this some kind of proprietary interface?
>
>>
> No, I do not.
>

Ok, I've done some more research on the subject:
Synaptics released their Synaptics Gesture Suite [1] at CES last year
[2]. This software enables a number of different gestures on synaptics
touchpads. Googling around it also seems like some older touchpad also
supports this, but that the OEM chooses when to enable this or not in
the windows driver. There are hacked windows driver which enables this
functionality on machines where the driver shipped[3].

I've been unable to secure any documentation on how and at what
hardware/software level the gesture support is implemented. It's very
possible that much of the gesture recognition is done at a software
level and that some kind of user-space library needs to be developed
in order to gain full gesture support on linux.

When comparing the capabilities bits of my ASUS EeePc 1005HA synaptics
touchpad with the latest synaptics datasheet available on their
website I noticed that Bit 5 of Byte 3 is marked as reserved (i.e may
be used for further extensions) but is 1 on my machine. This might
imply that there is another capability available for which Synaptics
hasn't released any documentation support for.

Best regards,
Erik

[1] http://www.synaptics.com/solutions/technology/gestures/touchpad
[2] http://www.synaptics.com/about/press/press-releases/synaptics-exhibits-advanced-gestures-and-mobile-computing-technology-ces
[3] http://forums.laptopvideo2go.com/topic/17890-synaptics-v10-2-4-modded-for-acer-gemstone-series/

> --
> Dmitry
>
>
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