[linux-lvm] LVM release (fwd)

[linux-lvm] LVM release (fwd)

[Dominic J. Eidson]

Maybe you Heinz could answer this better than me...

Dominic

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 22:33:24 PST
From: tbreuel@parc.xerox.com
To: dominic@the-infinite.org
Subject: LVM release

Hi,

I saw your announcement of LVM for Linux with interest.
I have some questions about it:

 -- The main selling point of LVM on IBM systems was that
    it allowed resizing file systems while they were on-line;
    with ext2, that doesn't seem to be possible. So, if they
    have to be unmounted anyway, why not use GNU parted?
    Are there plans for on-line resizable file systems
    in Linux?

 -- You state that the LVM doesn't have a lot of overhead.
    What conditions did you test under? Many file systems optimize
    disk head movement, but once a volume has been resized multiple
    times, the relationship between logical block addresses and
    head positions become pretty unpredictable. Does the LVM
    implementation address this? Are there hooks that file system
    implementations can use to discover the mapping? And is
    there some kind of "LVM defragmentation utility" that makes
    logical volumes sequential and contiguous?

 -- Are you planning on making LVM the default disk
    storage management system in the 2.3 kernels, or is
    it going in as something only to be used for "enterprise 
    Linux distributions"?

Thanks,
Thomas.

PS: I was using and configuring AIX systems for four years,
so that's where I have used logical volumes before.

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM release

[Andreas Dilger]

Dominic writes:
>  -- The main selling point of LVM on IBM systems was that
>     it allowed resizing file systems while they were on-line;
>     with ext2, that doesn't seem to be possible. So, if they
>     have to be unmounted anyway, why not use GNU parted?
>     Are there plans for on-line resizable file systems
>     in Linux?

The resizing of the JFS filesystems and LVM are actually separate
functions, in both AIX and Linux.  LVM will only resize the "partition"
(LV), while it is up to the filesystem to resize itself.  In AIX, if
you select resizing of the LV (smitty chlv), only the LV will grow and
you will have wasted a bunch of space.  If you select resizing of the
filesystem (smitty chjfs) it will do the resize of the LV first for you,
and then resize the filesystem.

You CAN resize mounted ext2 partitions with a kernel patch to the ext2
sources, and some user space tools to help you along.  The kernel patch
is at http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/online-ext2/, and
user-space tools (ext2online and ext2prepate) are part of ext2resize,
which is part of the GNU parted you refer to above.

Cheers, Andreas
-- 
Andreas Dilger  \ "If a man ate a pound of pasta and a pound of antipasto,
                 \  would they cancel out, leaving him still hungry?"
http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/               -- Dogbert

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM release (fwd)

[Heinz Mauelshagen]

> 
> Maybe you Heinz could answer this better than me...
> 
> Dominic
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 22:33:24 PST
> From: tbreuel@parc.xerox.com
> To: dominic@the-infinite.org
> Subject: LVM release
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I saw your announcement of LVM for Linux with interest.
> I have some questions about it:
> 
>  -- The main selling point of LVM on IBM systems was that
>     it allowed resizing file systems while they were on-line;
>     with ext2, that doesn't seem to be possible. So, if they
>     have to be unmounted anyway, why not use GNU parted?

No chance to go beyoind physical disk limit which is in general
one goal of volume management and of Linux LVM in particular.

>     Are there plans for on-line resizable file systems
>     in Linux?

There is at least one ext2 online resizing project.
See pointer at <http://linux.msede.com/ext2>.

Today you can use reiserfs which is online extendable and
offline (this is BTW _very_ seldom used in production!) shrinkable.
It is pure fun to see it growing in fractions of e second.

There are plans to make GFS (Global Filesystem) online extendable later
this year as well.

The SGI XFS port to Linux will be online extendable but not shrinkable at all.

Veritas AFAIK will sell their FS to you ;*(

> 
>  -- You state that the LVM doesn't have a lot of overhead.
>     What conditions did you test under?

FS accesses with bonnie and other stuff.

>     Many file systems optimize
>     disk head movement, but once a volume has been resized multiple
>     times, the relationship between logical block addresses and
>     head positions become pretty unpredictable.

Correct.

>     Does the LVM
>     implementation address this?

Yes. But not automatically. See below.

>     Are there hooks that file system
>     implementations can use to discover the mapping?

Yes.

Either by using wrappers arround

lvdisplay -v /dev/VolumeGroup/LogicalVolume
pvdisplay -v /dev/PhysicalVolume

- or -

by calling of lv_status_byname() or lv_status_byindex() directly
to get the mapping information.
Both in userspace.

In kernelspace one can call the corresponding
LV_STATUS_BYNAME/LV_STATUS_BYINDEX directly.

>     And is
>     there some kind of "LVM defragmentation utility" that makes
>     logical volumes sequential and contiguous?

Yes.
It is called pvmove(8).

IOW: use the above mentioned methods to get the mapping information
     which BTW includes read/write statistics per extent, make your
     decision and use pvmove(8) to change the mapping online
     without loosing data.

> 
>  -- Are you planning on making LVM the default disk
>     storage management system in the 2.3 kernels, or is
>     it going in as something only to be used for "enterprise 
>     Linux distributions"?

No, because IMHO the user should still be able to have the choice
between direct partition/LVM/romfs/ect. based systems.

LVM will be included in the upcoming 2.3.x releases as Linus stated recently.

> 
> Thanks,
> Thomas.
> 
> PS: I was using and configuring AIX systems for four years,
> so that's where I have used logical volumes before.
> 

Heinz

-- 

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Systemmanagement CS-TS                           T-Nova
                                                 Entwicklungszentrum Darmstadt
Heinz Mauelshagen                                Otto-Roehm-Strasse 71c
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