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* Errors in man pages, here: st.4.po: Wording
@ 2020-04-19  6:48 Helge Kreutzmann
  2020-04-20  9:48 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Helge Kreutzmann @ 2020-04-19  6:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mtk.manpages; +Cc: linux-man

Dear manpages maintainers.
the manpage-l10n project maintains a large number of translations of
man pages both from a large variety of sources (including manpages) as
well for a large variety of target languages.

During their work translators notice different possible issues in the
original (english) man pages. Sometiems this is a straightforward
typo, sometimes a hard to read sentence, sometimes this is a convention
not held up and sometimes we simply do not understand the original.

We use several distributions as sources and update regularly (at
least every 2 month). This means we are fairly recent (some
distributions like archlinux also update frequently) but might miss
the latest upstream version once a while, so the error might be
already fixed. We apologize and ask you to close the issue immediately
if this should be the case, but given the huge volume of projects and
the very limited number of volunteers we are not able to double check
each and every issue.

Secondly we translators see the manpages in the neutral po format,
i.e. converted and harmonized, but not the original source (be it man,
groff, xml or other). So we cannot provide a true patch (where
possible), but only an approximation which you need to translate into
your source format.

Finally the issues I'm reporting have accumulated over time and are
not always discovered by me, so sometimes my description of the
problem my be a bit limited - do not hesitate to ask so we can clarify
them.

I'm now reporting the errors for your project. As requested, each
issue is sent in an unique mail for easier tracking on your side. If
future reports should use another channel, please let me know.

**

media → data

msgid "Go to the end of the recorded media (for appending files)."

--
drive → media

"B<GMT_WR_PROT>(I<x>): The drive is write-protected.  For some drives this "
"can also mean that the drive does not support writing on the current medium "
"type."

-- 
      Dr. Helge Kreutzmann                     debian@helgefjell.de
           Dipl.-Phys.                   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
        64bit GNU powered                     gpg signed mail preferred
           Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: st.4.po: Wording
  2020-04-19  6:48 Errors in man pages, here: st.4.po: Wording Helge Kreutzmann
@ 2020-04-20  9:48 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  2020-04-20 15:59   ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) @ 2020-04-20  9:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Helge Kreutzmann; +Cc: mtk.manpages, linux-man, Kai Mäkisara

[CC += Kai]

On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> Dear manpages maintainers.
> the manpage-l10n project maintains a large number of translations of
> man pages both from a large variety of sources (including manpages) as
> well for a large variety of target languages.
> 
> During their work translators notice different possible issues in the
> original (english) man pages. Sometiems this is a straightforward
> typo, sometimes a hard to read sentence, sometimes this is a convention
> not held up and sometimes we simply do not understand the original.
> 
> We use several distributions as sources and update regularly (at
> least every 2 month). This means we are fairly recent (some
> distributions like archlinux also update frequently) but might miss
> the latest upstream version once a while, so the error might be
> already fixed. We apologize and ask you to close the issue immediately
> if this should be the case, but given the huge volume of projects and
> the very limited number of volunteers we are not able to double check
> each and every issue.
> 
> Secondly we translators see the manpages in the neutral po format,
> i.e. converted and harmonized, but not the original source (be it man,
> groff, xml or other). So we cannot provide a true patch (where
> possible), but only an approximation which you need to translate into
> your source format.
> 
> Finally the issues I'm reporting have accumulated over time and are
> not always discovered by me, so sometimes my description of the
> problem my be a bit limited - do not hesitate to ask so we can clarify
> them.
> 
> I'm now reporting the errors for your project. As requested, each
> issue is sent in an unique mail for easier tracking on your side. If
> future reports should use another channel, please let me know.
> 
> **
> 
> media → data
> 
> msgid "Go to the end of the recorded media (for appending files)."
> 
> --
> drive → media
> 
> "B<GMT_WR_PROT>(I<x>): The drive is write-protected.  For some drives this "
> "can also mean that the drive does not support writing on the current medium "
> "type."

I am not sure of the above. Perhaps Kai can help.

Thanks,

Michael


-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: st.4.po: Wording
  2020-04-20  9:48 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
@ 2020-04-20 15:59   ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
  2020-04-20 18:25     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  2020-05-01  7:11     ` Helge Kreutzmann
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)" @ 2020-04-20 15:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages); +Cc: Helge Kreutzmann, linux-man



> On 20. Apr 2020, at 12.48, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> [CC += Kai]
> 
> On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
>> Dear manpages maintainers.
>> 
...
>> **
>> 
>> media → data
>> 
>> msgid "Go to the end of the recorded media (for appending files)."
>> 
End of media is the end of the tape. End of recorded media means
after the last record/filemark that has been written to the tape. Usually
(not always) you can write more data after what has been written
so far. End of recorded media is standard tape terminology.

>> --
>> drive → media
>> 
>> "B<GMT_WR_PROT>(I<x>): The drive is write-protected.  For some drives this "
>> "can also mean that the drive does not support writing on the current medium "
>> "type."
> 
This basically means that the drive refuses to write to the media. It can be
write-protected by the user. The additional text hints at the possibility
that the drive can only read the media type in the drive. It is quite
common that drives can read, for instance, several old formats
(usually with smaller capacity) but can write only the newest types.
Many times the user may not know very well the properties of the
drive and wonders, why can’t I write even if the tape can be read
and the write protect tab is off.

Thanks,
Kai


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: st.4.po: Wording
  2020-04-20 15:59   ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
@ 2020-04-20 18:25     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  2020-04-20 18:49       ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
  2020-05-01  7:11     ` Helge Kreutzmann
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) @ 2020-04-20 18:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus); +Cc: Helge Kreutzmann, linux-man

Hello Kai,

On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 at 17:59, "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
<kai.makisara@kolumbus.fi> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 20. Apr 2020, at 12.48, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > [CC += Kai]
> >
> > On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> >> Dear manpages maintainers.
> >>
> ...
> >> **
> >>
> >> media → data
> >>
> >> msgid "Go to the end of the recorded media (for appending files)."
> >>
> End of media is the end of the tape. End of recorded media means
> after the last record/filemark that has been written to the tape. Usually
> (not always) you can write more data after what has been written
> so far. End of recorded media is standard tape terminology.
>
> >> --
> >> drive → media
> >>
> >> "B<GMT_WR_PROT>(I<x>): The drive is write-protected.  For some drives this "
> >> "can also mean that the drive does not support writing on the current medium "
> >> "type."
> >
> This basically means that the drive refuses to write to the media. It can be
> write-protected by the user. The additional text hints at the possibility
> that the drive can only read the media type in the drive. It is quite
> common that drives can read, for instance, several old formats
> (usually with smaller capacity) but can write only the newest types.
> Many times the user may not know very well the properties of the
> drive and wonders, why can’t I write even if the tape can be read
> and the write protect tab is off.

So, if I understand right, then no changes to the wording are required?

Thanks,

Michael

-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: st.4.po: Wording
  2020-04-20 18:25     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
@ 2020-04-20 18:49       ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
  2020-04-20 19:41         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)" @ 2020-04-20 18:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages); +Cc: Helge Kreutzmann, linux-man

Hello,

> On 20. Apr 2020, at 21.25, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Kai,
> 
> On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 at 17:59, "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
> <kai.makisara@kolumbus.fi> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 20. Apr 2020, at 12.48, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> [CC += Kai]
>>> 
>>> On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
>>>> Dear manpages maintainers.
>>>> 
>> ...
>>>> **
>>>> 
>>>> media → data
>>>> 
>>>> msgid "Go to the end of the recorded media (for appending files)."
>>>> 
>> End of media is the end of the tape. End of recorded media means
>> after the last record/filemark that has been written to the tape. Usually
>> (not always) you can write more data after what has been written
>> so far. End of recorded media is standard tape terminology.
>> 
>>>> --
>>>> drive → media
>>>> 
>>>> "B<GMT_WR_PROT>(I<x>): The drive is write-protected.  For some drives this "
>>>> "can also mean that the drive does not support writing on the current medium "
>>>> "type."
>>> 
>> This basically means that the drive refuses to write to the media. It can be
>> write-protected by the user. The additional text hints at the possibility
>> that the drive can only read the media type in the drive. It is quite
>> common that drives can read, for instance, several old formats
>> (usually with smaller capacity) but can write only the newest types.
>> Many times the user may not know very well the properties of the
>> drive and wonders, why can’t I write even if the tape can be read
>> and the write protect tab is off.
> 
> So, if I understand right, then no changes to the wording are required?
> 
I don’t think changes are necessarily needed. I don’t find any errors
here. But when the text is not clear to readers, I always ask myself,
should it be made clearer. I have understood that the man pages
must be precise, but not too long. The requirements are different
for the different sections of man pages. For instance, section 1 is
meant for “ordinary” users but section 4 is for low-level interface
to device drivers. I think we can assume that the users of 
section 4 have some technical knowledge about the device they
are interested in programming.

So, I don’t think changes are necessary. But I don’t object if someone
wants to enhance the descriptions as long as they are precise and
not too long.

Thanks,
Kai


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: st.4.po: Wording
  2020-04-20 18:49       ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
@ 2020-04-20 19:41         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) @ 2020-04-20 19:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus); +Cc: Helge Kreutzmann, linux-man

Hello Kai,

On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 at 20:49, "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
<kai.makisara@kolumbus.fi> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> > On 20. Apr 2020, at 21.25, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Kai,
> >
> > On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 at 17:59, "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
> > <kai.makisara@kolumbus.fi> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 20. Apr 2020, at 12.48, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> [CC += Kai]
> >>>
> >>> On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> >>>> Dear manpages maintainers.
> >>>>
> >> ...
> >>>> **
> >>>>
> >>>> media → data
> >>>>
> >>>> msgid "Go to the end of the recorded media (for appending files)."
> >>>>
> >> End of media is the end of the tape. End of recorded media means
> >> after the last record/filemark that has been written to the tape. Usually
> >> (not always) you can write more data after what has been written
> >> so far. End of recorded media is standard tape terminology.
> >>
> >>>> --
> >>>> drive → media
> >>>>
> >>>> "B<GMT_WR_PROT>(I<x>): The drive is write-protected.  For some drives this "
> >>>> "can also mean that the drive does not support writing on the current medium "
> >>>> "type."
> >>>
> >> This basically means that the drive refuses to write to the media. It can be
> >> write-protected by the user. The additional text hints at the possibility
> >> that the drive can only read the media type in the drive. It is quite
> >> common that drives can read, for instance, several old formats
> >> (usually with smaller capacity) but can write only the newest types.
> >> Many times the user may not know very well the properties of the
> >> drive and wonders, why can’t I write even if the tape can be read
> >> and the write protect tab is off.
> >
> > So, if I understand right, then no changes to the wording are required?
> >
> I don’t think changes are necessarily needed. I don’t find any errors
> here. But when the text is not clear to readers, I always ask myself,
> should it be made clearer. I have understood that the man pages
> must be precise, but not too long. The requirements are different
> for the different sections of man pages. For instance, section 1 is
> meant for “ordinary” users but section 4 is for low-level interface
> to device drivers. I think we can assume that the users of
> section 4 have some technical knowledge about the device they
> are interested in programming.

Agreed.

> So, I don’t think changes are necessary. But I don’t object if someone
> wants to enhance the descriptions

> Okay.

> as long as they are precise and not too long.

Rather like your mails :-).

Thanks,

Michael

-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: st.4.po: Wording
  2020-04-20 15:59   ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
  2020-04-20 18:25     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
@ 2020-05-01  7:11     ` Helge Kreutzmann
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Helge Kreutzmann @ 2020-05-01  7:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
  Cc: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages), linux-man


[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1833 bytes --]

Hello Kai,
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 06:59:07PM +0300, "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)" wrote:
> > On 20. Apr 2020, at 12.48, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > [CC += Kai]
> > 
> > On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> >> Dear manpages maintainers.
> >> 
> ...
> >> **
> >> 
> >> media → data
> >> 
> >> msgid "Go to the end of the recorded media (for appending files)."
> >> 
> End of media is the end of the tape. End of recorded media means
> after the last record/filemark that has been written to the tape. Usually
> (not always) you can write more data after what has been written
> so far. End of recorded media is standard tape terminology.
> 
> >> --
> >> drive → media
> >> 
> >> "B<GMT_WR_PROT>(I<x>): The drive is write-protected.  For some drives this "
> >> "can also mean that the drive does not support writing on the current medium "
> >> "type."
> > 
> This basically means that the drive refuses to write to the media. It can be
> write-protected by the user. The additional text hints at the possibility
> that the drive can only read the media type in the drive. It is quite
> common that drives can read, for instance, several old formats
> (usually with smaller capacity) but can write only the newest types.
> Many times the user may not know very well the properties of the
> drive and wonders, why can’t I write even if the tape can be read
> and the write protect tab is off.

Thanks for the explanations.

Greetings

         Helge
-- 
      Dr. Helge Kreutzmann                     debian@helgefjell.de
           Dipl.-Phys.                   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
        64bit GNU powered                     gpg signed mail preferred
           Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

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Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-04-19  6:48 Errors in man pages, here: st.4.po: Wording Helge Kreutzmann
2020-04-20  9:48 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-04-20 15:59   ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
2020-04-20 18:25     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-04-20 18:49       ` "Kai Mäkisara (Kolumbus)"
2020-04-20 19:41         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-05-01  7:11     ` Helge Kreutzmann

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