[RFC] Create test script(s?) for regression testing

[RFC] Create test script(s?) for regression testing

[Hans Verkuil]

Hi all,

After the media summit (heavy on test discussions) and the V4L2 event regression
we just found it is clear we need to do a better job with testing.

All the pieces are in place, so what is needed is to combine it and create a
script that anyone of us as core developers can run to check for regressions.
The same script can be run as part of the kernelci regression testing.

We have four virtual drivers: vivid, vim2m, vimc and vicodec. The last one
is IMHO not quite good enough yet for testing: it is not fully compliant to the
upcoming stateful codec spec. Work for that is planned as part of an Outreachy
project.

My idea is to create a script that is maintained as part of v4l-utils that
loads the drivers and runs v4l2-compliance and possibly other tests against
the virtual drivers.

It should be simple to use and require very little in the way of dependencies.
Ideally no dependencies other than what is in v4l-utils so it can easily be run
on an embedded system as well.

For a 64-bit kernel it should run the tests both with 32-bit and 64-bit
applications.

It should also test with both single and multiplanar modes where available.

Since vivid emulates CEC as well, it should run CEC tests too.

As core developers we should have an environment where we can easily test
our patches with this script (I use a VM for that).

I think maintaining the script (or perhaps scripts) in v4l-utils is best since
that keeps it in sync with the latest kernel and v4l-utils developments.

Comments? Ideas?

Regards,

	Hans

Re: [RFC] Create test script(s?) for regression testing

[Sakari Ailus]

Hi Hans,

On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 09:37:07AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> After the media summit (heavy on test discussions) and the V4L2 event regression
> we just found it is clear we need to do a better job with testing.
> 
> All the pieces are in place, so what is needed is to combine it and create a
> script that anyone of us as core developers can run to check for regressions.
> The same script can be run as part of the kernelci regression testing.

I'd say that *some* pieces are in place. Of course, the more there is, the
better.

The more there are tests, the more important it would be they're automated,
preferrably without the developer having to run them on his/her own
machine.

> 
> We have four virtual drivers: vivid, vim2m, vimc and vicodec. The last one
> is IMHO not quite good enough yet for testing: it is not fully compliant to the
> upcoming stateful codec spec. Work for that is planned as part of an Outreachy
> project.
> 
> My idea is to create a script that is maintained as part of v4l-utils that
> loads the drivers and runs v4l2-compliance and possibly other tests against
> the virtual drivers.

How about spending a little time to pick a suitable framework for running
the tests? It could be useful to get more informative reports than just
pass / fail.

Do note that for different hardware the tests would be likely different as
well although there are classes of devices for which the exact same tests
would be applicable.

> 
> It should be simple to use and require very little in the way of dependencies.
> Ideally no dependencies other than what is in v4l-utils so it can easily be run
> on an embedded system as well.
> 
> For a 64-bit kernel it should run the tests both with 32-bit and 64-bit
> applications.
> 
> It should also test with both single and multiplanar modes where available.
> 
> Since vivid emulates CEC as well, it should run CEC tests too.
> 
> As core developers we should have an environment where we can easily test
> our patches with this script (I use a VM for that).
> 
> I think maintaining the script (or perhaps scripts) in v4l-utils is best since
> that keeps it in sync with the latest kernel and v4l-utils developments.

Makes sense --- and that can be always changed later on if there's a need
to.

-- 
Regards,

Sakari Ailus
sakari.ailus@linux.intel.com

Re: [RFC] Create test script(s?) for regression testing

[Laurent Pinchart]

Hello,

On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 13:36:55 EET Sakari Ailus wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 09:37:07AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > After the media summit (heavy on test discussions) and the V4L2 event
> > regression we just found it is clear we need to do a better job with
> > testing.
> > 
> > All the pieces are in place, so what is needed is to combine it and create
> > a script that anyone of us as core developers can run to check for
> > regressions. The same script can be run as part of the kernelci
> > regression testing.
> 
> I'd say that *some* pieces are in place. Of course, the more there is, the
> better.
> 
> The more there are tests, the more important it would be they're automated,
> preferrably without the developer having to run them on his/her own
> machine.

>From my experience with testing, it's important to have both a core set of 
tests (a.k.a. smoke tests) that can easily be run on developers' machines, and 
extended tests that can be offloaded to a shared testing infrastructure (but 
possibly also run locally if desired).

> > We have four virtual drivers: vivid, vim2m, vimc and vicodec. The last one
> > is IMHO not quite good enough yet for testing: it is not fully compliant
> > to the upcoming stateful codec spec. Work for that is planned as part of
> > an Outreachy project.
> > 
> > My idea is to create a script that is maintained as part of v4l-utils that
> > loads the drivers and runs v4l2-compliance and possibly other tests
> > against the virtual drivers.
> 
> How about spending a little time to pick a suitable framework for running
> the tests? It could be useful to get more informative reports than just
> pass / fail.

We should keep in mind that other tests will be added later, and the test 
framework should make that easy.

Regarding the test output, many formats exist (see https://testanything.org/ 
and https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/
json_test_results_format.md for instance), we should pick one of the leading 
industry standards (what those standards are still needs to be researched 
:-)).

> Do note that for different hardware the tests would be likely different as
> well although there are classes of devices for which the exact same tests
> would be applicable.

See http://git.ideasonboard.com/renesas/vsp-tests.git for an example of 
device-specific tests. I think some of that could be generalized.

> > It should be simple to use and require very little in the way of
> > dependencies. Ideally no dependencies other than what is in v4l-utils so
> > it can easily be run on an embedded system as well.
> > 
> > For a 64-bit kernel it should run the tests both with 32-bit and 64-bit
> > applications.
> > 
> > It should also test with both single and multiplanar modes where
> > available.
> > 
> > Since vivid emulates CEC as well, it should run CEC tests too.
> > 
> > As core developers we should have an environment where we can easily test
> > our patches with this script (I use a VM for that).
> > 
> > I think maintaining the script (or perhaps scripts) in v4l-utils is best
> > since that keeps it in sync with the latest kernel and v4l-utils
> > developments.
> 
> Makes sense --- and that can be always changed later on if there's a need
> to.

I wonder whether that would be best going forward, especially if we want to 
add more tests. Wouldn't a v4l-tests project make sense ?

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: [RFC] Create test script(s?) for regression testing

[Hans Verkuil]

On 11/06/18 14:12, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 13:36:55 EET Sakari Ailus wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 09:37:07AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> After the media summit (heavy on test discussions) and the V4L2 event
>>> regression we just found it is clear we need to do a better job with
>>> testing.
>>>
>>> All the pieces are in place, so what is needed is to combine it and create
>>> a script that anyone of us as core developers can run to check for
>>> regressions. The same script can be run as part of the kernelci
>>> regression testing.
>>
>> I'd say that *some* pieces are in place. Of course, the more there is, the
>> better.
>>
>> The more there are tests, the more important it would be they're automated,
>> preferrably without the developer having to run them on his/her own
>> machine.
> 
> From my experience with testing, it's important to have both a core set of 
> tests (a.k.a. smoke tests) that can easily be run on developers' machines, and 
> extended tests that can be offloaded to a shared testing infrastructure (but 
> possibly also run locally if desired).

That was my idea as well for the longer term. First step is to do the basic
smoke tests (i.e. run compliance tests, do some (limited) streaming test).

There are more extensive (and longer running) tests that can be done, but
that's something to look at later.

>>> We have four virtual drivers: vivid, vim2m, vimc and vicodec. The last one
>>> is IMHO not quite good enough yet for testing: it is not fully compliant
>>> to the upcoming stateful codec spec. Work for that is planned as part of
>>> an Outreachy project.
>>>
>>> My idea is to create a script that is maintained as part of v4l-utils that
>>> loads the drivers and runs v4l2-compliance and possibly other tests
>>> against the virtual drivers.
>>
>> How about spending a little time to pick a suitable framework for running
>> the tests? It could be useful to get more informative reports than just
>> pass / fail.
> 
> We should keep in mind that other tests will be added later, and the test 
> framework should make that easy.

Since we want to be able to run this on kernelci.org, I think it makes sense
to let the kernelci folks (Hi Ezequiel!) decide this. As a developer all I
need is a script to run smoke tests so I can catch most regressions (you never
catch all).

I'm happy to work with them to make any changes to compliance tools and scripts
so they fit better into their test framework.

The one key requirement to all this is that you should be able to run these
tests without dependencies to all sorts of external packages/libraries.

> Regarding the test output, many formats exist (see https://testanything.org/ 
> and https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/
> json_test_results_format.md for instance), we should pick one of the leading 
> industry standards (what those standards are still needs to be researched 
> :-)).
> 
>> Do note that for different hardware the tests would be likely different as
>> well although there are classes of devices for which the exact same tests
>> would be applicable.
> 
> See http://git.ideasonboard.com/renesas/vsp-tests.git for an example of 
> device-specific tests. I think some of that could be generalized.
> 
>>> It should be simple to use and require very little in the way of
>>> dependencies. Ideally no dependencies other than what is in v4l-utils so
>>> it can easily be run on an embedded system as well.
>>>
>>> For a 64-bit kernel it should run the tests both with 32-bit and 64-bit
>>> applications.
>>>
>>> It should also test with both single and multiplanar modes where
>>> available.
>>>
>>> Since vivid emulates CEC as well, it should run CEC tests too.
>>>
>>> As core developers we should have an environment where we can easily test
>>> our patches with this script (I use a VM for that).
>>>
>>> I think maintaining the script (or perhaps scripts) in v4l-utils is best
>>> since that keeps it in sync with the latest kernel and v4l-utils
>>> developments.
>>
>> Makes sense --- and that can be always changed later on if there's a need
>> to.
> 
> I wonder whether that would be best going forward, especially if we want to 
> add more tests. Wouldn't a v4l-tests project make sense ?
> 

Let's see what happens. The more repos you have, the harder it becomes to keep
everything in sync with the latest kernel code.

My experience is that if you want to have good tests, then writing tests should
be as easy as possible. Keep dependencies at an absolute minimum.

Let's be honest, we (well, mainly me) are doing these tests as a side job, it's
not our main focus. Anything that makes writing tests more painful is bad and
just gets in the way.

Regards,

	Hans

Re: [RFC] Create test script(s?) for regression testing

[Laurent Pinchart]

Hi Hans,

On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 15:56:34 EET Hans Verkuil wrote:
> On 11/06/18 14:12, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 13:36:55 EET Sakari Ailus wrote:
> >> On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 09:37:07AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>> 
> >>> After the media summit (heavy on test discussions) and the V4L2 event
> >>> regression we just found it is clear we need to do a better job with
> >>> testing.
> >>> 
> >>> All the pieces are in place, so what is needed is to combine it and
> >>> create a script that anyone of us as core developers can run to check
> >>> for regressions. The same script can be run as part of the kernelci
> >>> regression testing.
> >> 
> >> I'd say that *some* pieces are in place. Of course, the more there is,
> >> the better.
> >> 
> >> The more there are tests, the more important it would be they're
> >> automated, preferrably without the developer having to run them on his/
> >> her own machine.
> > 
> > From my experience with testing, it's important to have both a core set of
> > tests (a.k.a. smoke tests) that can easily be run on developers' machines,
> > and extended tests that can be offloaded to a shared testing
> > infrastructure (but possibly also run locally if desired).
> 
> That was my idea as well for the longer term. First step is to do the basic
> smoke tests (i.e. run compliance tests, do some (limited) streaming test).
> 
> There are more extensive (and longer running) tests that can be done, but
> that's something to look at later.
> 
> >>> We have four virtual drivers: vivid, vim2m, vimc and vicodec. The last
> >>> one is IMHO not quite good enough yet for testing: it is not fully
> >>> compliant to the upcoming stateful codec spec. Work for that is planned
> >>> as part of an Outreachy project.
> >>> 
> >>> My idea is to create a script that is maintained as part of v4l-utils
> >>> that loads the drivers and runs v4l2-compliance and possibly other tests
> >>> against the virtual drivers.
> >> 
> >> How about spending a little time to pick a suitable framework for running
> >> the tests? It could be useful to get more informative reports than just
> >> pass / fail.
> > 
> > We should keep in mind that other tests will be added later, and the test
> > framework should make that easy.
> 
> Since we want to be able to run this on kernelci.org, I think it makes sense
> to let the kernelci folks (Hi Ezequiel!) decide this.

KernelCI isn't the only test infrastructure out there, so let's not forget 
about the other ones.

> As a developer all I need is a script to run smoke tests so I can catch most
> regressions (you never catch all).
> 
> I'm happy to work with them to make any changes to compliance tools and
> scripts so they fit better into their test framework.
> 
> The one key requirement to all this is that you should be able to run these
> tests without dependencies to all sorts of external packages/libraries.

v4l-utils already has a set of dependencies, but those are largely manageable. 
For v4l2-compliance we'll install libv4l, which depends on libjpeg.

> > Regarding the test output, many formats exist (see
> > https://testanything.org/ and
> > https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/
> > json_test_results_format.md for instance), we should pick one of the
> > leading industry standards (what those standards are still needs to be
> > researched  :-)).
> > 
> >> Do note that for different hardware the tests would be likely different
> >> as well although there are classes of devices for which the exact same
> >> tests would be applicable.
> > 
> > See http://git.ideasonboard.com/renesas/vsp-tests.git for an example of
> > device-specific tests. I think some of that could be generalized.
> > 
> >>> It should be simple to use and require very little in the way of
> >>> dependencies. Ideally no dependencies other than what is in v4l-utils so
> >>> it can easily be run on an embedded system as well.
> >>> 
> >>> For a 64-bit kernel it should run the tests both with 32-bit and 64-bit
> >>> applications.
> >>> 
> >>> It should also test with both single and multiplanar modes where
> >>> available.
> >>> 
> >>> Since vivid emulates CEC as well, it should run CEC tests too.
> >>> 
> >>> As core developers we should have an environment where we can easily
> >>> test our patches with this script (I use a VM for that).
> >>> 
> >>> I think maintaining the script (or perhaps scripts) in v4l-utils is best
> >>> since that keeps it in sync with the latest kernel and v4l-utils
> >>> developments.
> >> 
> >> Makes sense --- and that can be always changed later on if there's a need
> >> to.
> > 
> > I wonder whether that would be best going forward, especially if we want
> > to add more tests. Wouldn't a v4l-tests project make sense ?
> 
> Let's see what happens. The more repos you have, the harder it becomes to
> keep everything in sync with the latest kernel code.

Why is that ? How would a v4l-tests repository make it more difficult ?

> My experience is that if you want to have good tests, then writing tests
> should be as easy as possible. Keep dependencies at an absolute minimum.

To make it as easy as possible we need to provide high-level APIs, so 
dependencies will be unavoidable. I found for instance that Python bindings 
were very useful to write tests for DRM/KMS (using libkmsxx), and I plan to 
have a look at Python bindings for V4L2.

> Let's be honest, we (well, mainly me) are doing these tests as a side job,
> it's not our main focus.

That's a mindset that needs to evolve :-)

> Anything that makes writing tests more painful is bad and just gets in the
> way.

I don't see any disagreement on this. What makes it easy to write tests will 
however be much more prone to arguments.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: [RFC] Create test script(s?) for regression testing

[Hans Verkuil]

On 11/06/2018 08:58 PM, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> Hi Hans,
> 
> On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 15:56:34 EET Hans Verkuil wrote:
>> On 11/06/18 14:12, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 13:36:55 EET Sakari Ailus wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 09:37:07AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> After the media summit (heavy on test discussions) and the V4L2 event
>>>>> regression we just found it is clear we need to do a better job with
>>>>> testing.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the pieces are in place, so what is needed is to combine it and
>>>>> create a script that anyone of us as core developers can run to check
>>>>> for regressions. The same script can be run as part of the kernelci
>>>>> regression testing.
>>>>
>>>> I'd say that *some* pieces are in place. Of course, the more there is,
>>>> the better.
>>>>
>>>> The more there are tests, the more important it would be they're
>>>> automated, preferrably without the developer having to run them on his/
>>>> her own machine.
>>>
>>> From my experience with testing, it's important to have both a core set of
>>> tests (a.k.a. smoke tests) that can easily be run on developers' machines,
>>> and extended tests that can be offloaded to a shared testing
>>> infrastructure (but possibly also run locally if desired).
>>
>> That was my idea as well for the longer term. First step is to do the basic
>> smoke tests (i.e. run compliance tests, do some (limited) streaming test).
>>
>> There are more extensive (and longer running) tests that can be done, but
>> that's something to look at later.
>>
>>>>> We have four virtual drivers: vivid, vim2m, vimc and vicodec. The last
>>>>> one is IMHO not quite good enough yet for testing: it is not fully
>>>>> compliant to the upcoming stateful codec spec. Work for that is planned
>>>>> as part of an Outreachy project.
>>>>>
>>>>> My idea is to create a script that is maintained as part of v4l-utils
>>>>> that loads the drivers and runs v4l2-compliance and possibly other tests
>>>>> against the virtual drivers.
>>>>
>>>> How about spending a little time to pick a suitable framework for running
>>>> the tests? It could be useful to get more informative reports than just
>>>> pass / fail.
>>>
>>> We should keep in mind that other tests will be added later, and the test
>>> framework should make that easy.
>>
>> Since we want to be able to run this on kernelci.org, I think it makes sense
>> to let the kernelci folks (Hi Ezequiel!) decide this.
> 
> KernelCI isn't the only test infrastructure out there, so let's not forget 
> about the other ones.

True, but they are putting time and money into this, so they get to choose as
far as I am concerned :-)

If others are interested and willing to put up time and money, they should let
themselves be known.

I'm not going to work on such an integration, although I happily accept patches.

> 
>> As a developer all I need is a script to run smoke tests so I can catch most
>> regressions (you never catch all).
>>
>> I'm happy to work with them to make any changes to compliance tools and
>> scripts so they fit better into their test framework.
>>
>> The one key requirement to all this is that you should be able to run these
>> tests without dependencies to all sorts of external packages/libraries.
> 
> v4l-utils already has a set of dependencies, but those are largely manageable. 
> For v4l2-compliance we'll install libv4l, which depends on libjpeg.

That's already too much. You can manually build v4l2-compliance with no dependencies
whatsoever, but we're missing a Makefile target for that. It's been useful for
embedded systems with poor cross-compile environments.

It is really very useful to be able to compile those core utilities with no
external libraries other than glibc. You obviously will loose some functionality
when you compile it that way.

These utilities are not like a typical application. I really don't care how many
libraries are linked in by e.g. qv4l2, xawtv, etc. But for v4l2-ctl, v4l2-compliance,
cec-ctl/follower/compliance (and probably a few others as well) you want a minimum
of dependencies so you can run them everywhere, even with the crappiest toolchains
or cross-compile environments.

> 
>>> Regarding the test output, many formats exist (see
>>> https://testanything.org/ and
>>> https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/
>>> json_test_results_format.md for instance), we should pick one of the
>>> leading industry standards (what those standards are still needs to be
>>> researched  :-)).
>>>
>>>> Do note that for different hardware the tests would be likely different
>>>> as well although there are classes of devices for which the exact same
>>>> tests would be applicable.
>>>
>>> See http://git.ideasonboard.com/renesas/vsp-tests.git for an example of
>>> device-specific tests. I think some of that could be generalized.
>>>
>>>>> It should be simple to use and require very little in the way of
>>>>> dependencies. Ideally no dependencies other than what is in v4l-utils so
>>>>> it can easily be run on an embedded system as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> For a 64-bit kernel it should run the tests both with 32-bit and 64-bit
>>>>> applications.
>>>>>
>>>>> It should also test with both single and multiplanar modes where
>>>>> available.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since vivid emulates CEC as well, it should run CEC tests too.
>>>>>
>>>>> As core developers we should have an environment where we can easily
>>>>> test our patches with this script (I use a VM for that).
>>>>>
>>>>> I think maintaining the script (or perhaps scripts) in v4l-utils is best
>>>>> since that keeps it in sync with the latest kernel and v4l-utils
>>>>> developments.
>>>>
>>>> Makes sense --- and that can be always changed later on if there's a need
>>>> to.
>>>
>>> I wonder whether that would be best going forward, especially if we want
>>> to add more tests. Wouldn't a v4l-tests project make sense ?
>>
>> Let's see what happens. The more repos you have, the harder it becomes to
>> keep everything in sync with the latest kernel code.
> 
> Why is that ? How would a v4l-tests repository make it more difficult ?

Right now whenever we update the uAPI in the kernel we run 'make sync-with-kernel'
in v4l-utils to sync it to the latest kernel code. We only do this for this repo,
and adding a new repo where you have to do that will just complicate matters and
make it more likely you'll forget. I don't see a good reason to create a new repo
to store the test code.

However, I do think we might want to create a new repo to store video test
sequences (something I expect to see when we start on testing codecs).

It's IMHO a bad idea to add many MBs of video files to v4l-utils.

> 
>> My experience is that if you want to have good tests, then writing tests
>> should be as easy as possible. Keep dependencies at an absolute minimum.
> 
> To make it as easy as possible we need to provide high-level APIs, so 
> dependencies will be unavoidable. I found for instance that Python bindings 
> were very useful to write tests for DRM/KMS (using libkmsxx), and I plan to 
> have a look at Python bindings for V4L2.

Let's just start with simple smoke tests. Python bindings etc. are something
for the future. Nobody has the time to work on that anyway.

> 
>> Let's be honest, we (well, mainly me) are doing these tests as a side job,
>> it's not our main focus.
> 
> That's a mindset that needs to evolve :-)

I want to be more aggressive with this: new APIs will need patches to v4l-utils
as well before they can be accepted, and ideally new tests.

And hopefully the kernelci project will lead to some improvements as well.

> 
>> Anything that makes writing tests more painful is bad and just gets in the
>> way.
> 
> I don't see any disagreement on this. What makes it easy to write tests will 
> however be much more prone to arguments.
> 

Since I'm pretty much the only one who has been writing tests, I'd say that I
can make a good argument :-)

Regards,

	Hans

Re: [RFC] Create test script(s?) for regression testing

[Laurent Pinchart]

Hi Hans,

On Wednesday, 7 November 2018 10:05:12 EET Hans Verkuil wrote:
> On 11/06/2018 08:58 PM, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 15:56:34 EET Hans Verkuil wrote:
> >> On 11/06/18 14:12, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 13:36:55 EET Sakari Ailus wrote:
> >>>> On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 09:37:07AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> >>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> After the media summit (heavy on test discussions) and the V4L2 event
> >>>>> regression we just found it is clear we need to do a better job with
> >>>>> testing.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> All the pieces are in place, so what is needed is to combine it and
> >>>>> create a script that anyone of us as core developers can run to check
> >>>>> for regressions. The same script can be run as part of the kernelci
> >>>>> regression testing.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I'd say that *some* pieces are in place. Of course, the more there is,
> >>>> the better.
> >>>> 
> >>>> The more there are tests, the more important it would be they're
> >>>> automated, preferrably without the developer having to run them on his/
> >>>> her own machine.
> >>> 
> >>> From my experience with testing, it's important to have both a core set
> >>> of tests (a.k.a. smoke tests) that can easily be run on developers'
> >>> machines, and extended tests that can be offloaded to a shared testing
> >>> infrastructure (but possibly also run locally if desired).
> >> 
> >> That was my idea as well for the longer term. First step is to do the
> >> basic smoke tests (i.e. run compliance tests, do some (limited) streaming
> >> test).
> >> 
> >> There are more extensive (and longer running) tests that can be done, but
> >> that's something to look at later.
> >> 
> >>>>> We have four virtual drivers: vivid, vim2m, vimc and vicodec. The last
> >>>>> one is IMHO not quite good enough yet for testing: it is not fully
> >>>>> compliant to the upcoming stateful codec spec. Work for that is
> >>>>> planned as part of an Outreachy project.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> My idea is to create a script that is maintained as part of v4l-utils
> >>>>> that loads the drivers and runs v4l2-compliance and possibly other
> >>>>> tests against the virtual drivers.
> >>>> 
> >>>> How about spending a little time to pick a suitable framework for
> >>>> running the tests? It could be useful to get more informative reports
> >>>> than just pass / fail.
> >>> 
> >>> We should keep in mind that other tests will be added later, and the
> >>> test framework should make that easy.
> >> 
> >> Since we want to be able to run this on kernelci.org, I think it makes
> >> sense to let the kernelci folks (Hi Ezequiel!) decide this.
> > 
> > KernelCI isn't the only test infrastructure out there, so let's not forget
> > about the other ones.
> 
> True, but they are putting time and money into this, so they get to choose
> as far as I am concerned :-)

It's still our responsibility to give V4L2 a good test framework, and to drive 
it in the right direction. We don't accept V4L2 API extensions blindly just 
because a company happens to put time and money into it (there may have been 
one exception, but it's not the rule), we instead review all proposals 
carefully. The same should be true with tests.

> If others are interested and willing to put up time and money, they should
> let themselves be known.
> 
> I'm not going to work on such an integration, although I happily accept
> patches.
> 
> >> As a developer all I need is a script to run smoke tests so I can catch
> >> most regressions (you never catch all).
> >> 
> >> I'm happy to work with them to make any changes to compliance tools and
> >> scripts so they fit better into their test framework.
> >> 
> >> The one key requirement to all this is that you should be able to run
> >> these tests without dependencies to all sorts of external packages/
> >> libraries.
> > 
> > v4l-utils already has a set of dependencies, but those are largely
> > manageable. For v4l2-compliance we'll install libv4l, which depends on
> > libjpeg.
> 
> That's already too much. You can manually build v4l2-compliance with no
> dependencies whatsoever, but we're missing a Makefile target for that. It's
> been useful for embedded systems with poor cross-compile environments.

I don't think depending on libv4l and libjpeg would be a big issue. On the 
other hand, given what v4l2-compliance do, one could also argue that it should 
not use libv4l at all and go straight for the kernel API. This boils down to 
the question of whether we consider libv4l as part of the official V4L2 stack, 
or if we want to officially deprecate it given that it hasn't really lived to 
the promises it made.

> It is really very useful to be able to compile those core utilities with no
> external libraries other than glibc. You obviously will loose some
> functionality when you compile it that way.
> 
> These utilities are not like a typical application. I really don't care how
> many libraries are linked in by e.g. qv4l2, xawtv, etc. But for v4l2-ctl,
> v4l2-compliance, cec-ctl/follower/compliance (and probably a few others as
> well) you want a minimum of dependencies so you can run them everywhere,
> even with the crappiest toolchains or cross-compile environments.

If you want to make them easy to deploy, a more useful option would be a 
makefile rule to compile them statically.

> >>> Regarding the test output, many formats exist (see
> >>> https://testanything.org/ and
> >>> https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/
> >>> json_test_results_format.md for instance), we should pick one of the
> >>> leading industry standards (what those standards are still needs to be
> >>> researched  :-)).
> >>> 
> >>>> Do note that for different hardware the tests would be likely different
> >>>> as well although there are classes of devices for which the exact same
> >>>> tests would be applicable.
> >>> 
> >>> See http://git.ideasonboard.com/renesas/vsp-tests.git for an example of
> >>> device-specific tests. I think some of that could be generalized.
> >>> 
> >>>>> It should be simple to use and require very little in the way of
> >>>>> dependencies. Ideally no dependencies other than what is in v4l-utils
> >>>>> so it can easily be run on an embedded system as well.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> For a 64-bit kernel it should run the tests both with 32-bit and
> >>>>> 64-bit applications.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> It should also test with both single and multiplanar modes where
> >>>>> available.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Since vivid emulates CEC as well, it should run CEC tests too.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> As core developers we should have an environment where we can easily
> >>>>> test our patches with this script (I use a VM for that).
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I think maintaining the script (or perhaps scripts) in v4l-utils is
> >>>>> best since that keeps it in sync with the latest kernel and v4l-utils
> >>>>> developments.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Makes sense --- and that can be always changed later on if there's a
> >>>> need to.
> >>> 
> >>> I wonder whether that would be best going forward, especially if we want
> >>> to add more tests. Wouldn't a v4l-tests project make sense ?
> >> 
> >> Let's see what happens. The more repos you have, the harder it becomes to
> >> keep everything in sync with the latest kernel code.
> > 
> > Why is that ? How would a v4l-tests repository make it more difficult ?
> 
> Right now whenever we update the uAPI in the kernel we run 'make
> sync-with-kernel' in v4l-utils to sync it to the latest kernel code. We
> only do this for this repo, and adding a new repo where you have to do that
> will just complicate matters and make it more likely you'll forget.

Let's automate it then :-)

> I don't see a good reason to create a new repo to store the test code.

Having all test code in a separate git tree would make it easier for people to 
contribute without having to deal with v4l-utils in general. Pretty much every 
time I want to cross-compile tools from v4l-utils I end up editing the 
makefiles to work around compilation failures due to missing dependencies that 
don't have config options, or just to disable tools that don't cross-compile 
for random reasons and that I don't need.

A separate repository would also allow us to put testing under the spotlight, 
instead of hiding the tools and scripts in subdirectories, mixed with other 
completely unrelated tools and scripts. I would then consider contributing 
vsp-tests to the V4L2 test suite, while I really wouldn't if it had to be part 
of v4l-utils.

If we want to encourage driver authors to submit tests, we should also give 
commit rights. A separate repository would help there.

> However, I do think we might want to create a new repo to store video test
> sequences (something I expect to see when we start on testing codecs).
> 
> It's IMHO a bad idea to add many MBs of video files to v4l-utils.

That should definitely be a new repository.

> >> My experience is that if you want to have good tests, then writing tests
> >> should be as easy as possible. Keep dependencies at an absolute minimum.
> > 
> > To make it as easy as possible we need to provide high-level APIs, so
> > dependencies will be unavoidable. I found for instance that Python
> > bindings were very useful to write tests for DRM/KMS (using libkmsxx), and
> > I plan to have a look at Python bindings for V4L2.
> 
> Let's just start with simple smoke tests. Python bindings etc. are something
> for the future. Nobody has the time to work on that anyway.

That's not true, TI has added V4L2 Python bindings to kmsxx, and moving the 
VIN test scripts to Python is on the todo list of the Renesas multimedia 
upstreaming team. There could be other efforts I'm not aware of. Please don't 
assume that nobody runs tests just because no patches are sent for the non-
existing V4L2 test infrastructure :-)

> >> Let's be honest, we (well, mainly me) are doing these tests as a side
> >> job, it's not our main focus.
> > 
> > That's a mindset that needs to evolve :-)
> 
> I want to be more aggressive with this: new APIs will need patches to
> v4l-utils as well before they can be accepted, and ideally new tests.

That's something we should enforce, but to do so, we first need to polish our 
test infrastructure. In particular v4l2-compliance needs to be modularized and 
documented to make it easier to contribute new tests.

I would also go one step further, I would like new APIs to always come with a 
userspace implementation in a non-test stack.

> And hopefully the kernelci project will lead to some improvements as well.
> 
> >> Anything that makes writing tests more painful is bad and just gets in
> >> the way.
> > 
> > I don't see any disagreement on this. What makes it easy to write tests
> > will however be much more prone to arguments.
> 
> Since I'm pretty much the only one who has been writing tests, I'd say that
> I can make a good argument :-)

You're pretty much the only one contributing tests to v4l-utils, but certainly 
not the only one who has been writing tests.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: [RFC] Create test script(s?) for regression testing

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Em Wed, 07 Nov 2018 12:06:55 +0200
Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com> escreveu:

> Hi Hans,
> 
> On Wednesday, 7 November 2018 10:05:12 EET Hans Verkuil wrote:
> > On 11/06/2018 08:58 PM, Laurent Pinchart wrote:  
> > > On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 15:56:34 EET Hans Verkuil wrote:  
> > >> On 11/06/18 14:12, Laurent Pinchart wrote:  
> > >>> On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 13:36:55 EET Sakari Ailus wrote:  
> > >>>> On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 09:37:07AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:  
> > >>>>> Hi all,
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> After the media summit (heavy on test discussions) and the V4L2 event
> > >>>>> regression we just found it is clear we need to do a better job with
> > >>>>> testing.
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> All the pieces are in place, so what is needed is to combine it and
> > >>>>> create a script that anyone of us as core developers can run to check
> > >>>>> for regressions. The same script can be run as part of the kernelci
> > >>>>> regression testing.  
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> I'd say that *some* pieces are in place. Of course, the more there is,
> > >>>> the better.
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> The more there are tests, the more important it would be they're
> > >>>> automated, preferrably without the developer having to run them on his/
> > >>>> her own machine.  
> > >>> 
> > >>> From my experience with testing, it's important to have both a core set
> > >>> of tests (a.k.a. smoke tests) that can easily be run on developers'
> > >>> machines, and extended tests that can be offloaded to a shared testing
> > >>> infrastructure (but possibly also run locally if desired).  
> > >> 
> > >> That was my idea as well for the longer term. First step is to do the
> > >> basic smoke tests (i.e. run compliance tests, do some (limited) streaming
> > >> test).
> > >> 
> > >> There are more extensive (and longer running) tests that can be done, but
> > >> that's something to look at later.
> > >>   
> > >>>>> We have four virtual drivers: vivid, vim2m, vimc and vicodec. The last
> > >>>>> one is IMHO not quite good enough yet for testing: it is not fully
> > >>>>> compliant to the upcoming stateful codec spec. Work for that is
> > >>>>> planned as part of an Outreachy project.
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> My idea is to create a script that is maintained as part of v4l-utils
> > >>>>> that loads the drivers and runs v4l2-compliance and possibly other
> > >>>>> tests against the virtual drivers.  

(adding Shuah)

IMO, the best would be to have something like that as part of Kernel
self test, as this could give a broader covering than just Kernel CI.

Yeah, I know that one of the concerns is that the *-compliance stuff
we have are written in C++ and it is easier to maintain then at
v4l-utils, but maybe it would be acceptable at kselftest to have a
test bench there with would download the sources from a git tree
and then build just the v4l2-compliance stuff, e. g. having a Kernel
self test target that would do something like:

	git clone --depth 1 git://linuxtv.org/v4l-utils.git tests && \
	cd tests && ./autogen.sh && make tests && ./run_tests.sh

(the actual selftest target would likely be different, as it 
 should take into account make O=<some_output_dir>)

If this would be acceptable upstream, then we'll need to stick with the
output format defined by Kernel Self Test[1].

[1] I guess it uses the TAP13 format:
	https://testanything.org/tap-version-13-specification.html

> > >>>> 
> > >>>> How about spending a little time to pick a suitable framework for
> > >>>> running the tests? It could be useful to get more informative reports
> > >>>> than just pass / fail.  
> > >>> 
> > >>> We should keep in mind that other tests will be added later, and the
> > >>> test framework should make that easy.  
> > >> 
> > >> Since we want to be able to run this on kernelci.org, I think it makes
> > >> sense to let the kernelci folks (Hi Ezequiel!) decide this.  
> > > 
> > > KernelCI isn't the only test infrastructure out there, so let's not forget
> > > about the other ones.  
> > 
> > True, but they are putting time and money into this, so they get to choose
> > as far as I am concerned :-)  

Surely, but no matter who is paying, if one wants to merge things upstream,
he/she has to stick with upstream ruleset.

That's said, we should try to not make life harder than it should be for
it, but some things should be standardized, if we want future contributions
there. At very minimal, from my side, I'd like it to be as much compatible
with Kernel selftest infrastructure as possible.

I would try to avoid placing KernelCI-specific stuff (like adding LAVA code)
inside v4l-utils tree. With regards to that, one alternative would be to
split KernelCI specific code on a different tree and use "git subtree".

> It's still our responsibility to give V4L2 a good test framework, and to drive 
> it in the right direction. We don't accept V4L2 API extensions blindly just 
> because a company happens to put time and money into it (there may have been 
> one exception, but it's not the rule), we instead review all proposals 
> carefully. The same should be true with tests.
> 
> > If others are interested and willing to put up time and money, they should
> > let themselves be known.
> > 
> > I'm not going to work on such an integration, although I happily accept
> > patches.
> >   
> > >> As a developer all I need is a script to run smoke tests so I can catch
> > >> most regressions (you never catch all).
> > >> 
> > >> I'm happy to work with them to make any changes to compliance tools and
> > >> scripts so they fit better into their test framework.
> > >> 
> > >> The one key requirement to all this is that you should be able to run
> > >> these tests without dependencies to all sorts of external packages/
> > >> libraries.  
> > > 
> > > v4l-utils already has a set of dependencies, but those are largely
> > > manageable. For v4l2-compliance we'll install libv4l, which depends on
> > > libjpeg.  
> > 
> > That's already too much. You can manually build v4l2-compliance with no
> > dependencies whatsoever, but we're missing a Makefile target for that. It's
> > been useful for embedded systems with poor cross-compile environments.  
> 
> I don't think depending on libv4l and libjpeg would be a big issue.

Having v4l2-compliance depending on libv4l is not an issue, as both are
at the same tree. Except for glibc, I would avoid any other dependencies
like libjpeg.

> On the 
> other hand, given what v4l2-compliance do, one could also argue that it should 
> not use libv4l at all and go straight for the kernel API. This boils down to 
> the question of whether we consider libv4l as part of the official V4L2 stack, 
> or if we want to officially deprecate it given that it hasn't really lived to 
> the promises it made.

There's no question here: currently, libv4l2 is part of official V4L2
stack, as almost all V4L2 generic applications rely on it. We made some
pressure for apps to use it and we did the conversion ourselves for several
existing apps. So, for the better of the worse, we're committed to it.

When libcamera becomes a reality, and applications get ported to it, then
it would make sense to re-evaluate it.

> > It is really very useful to be able to compile those core utilities with no
> > external libraries other than glibc. You obviously will loose some
> > functionality when you compile it that way.
> > 
> > These utilities are not like a typical application. I really don't care how
> > many libraries are linked in by e.g. qv4l2, xawtv, etc. But for v4l2-ctl,
> > v4l2-compliance, cec-ctl/follower/compliance (and probably a few others as
> > well) you want a minimum of dependencies so you can run them everywhere,
> > even with the crappiest toolchains or cross-compile environments.  
> 
> If you want to make them easy to deploy, a more useful option would be a 
> makefile rule to compile them statically.

I agree. Also, the better would be to actually have an option to build them
in a way that both 32 bits on 64 bits ioctl calls would be tested.

From my side, a really useful smoke test would be to detect if a 32-bits
ioctl call is not properly handled by the Kernel, as this is something
that people usually forget to test when touching media APIs.

> 
> > >>> Regarding the test output, many formats exist (see
> > >>> https://testanything.org/ and
> > >>> https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/
> > >>> json_test_results_format.md for instance), we should pick one of the
> > >>> leading industry standards (what those standards are still needs to be
> > >>> researched  :-)).
> > >>>   
> > >>>> Do note that for different hardware the tests would be likely different
> > >>>> as well although there are classes of devices for which the exact same
> > >>>> tests would be applicable.  
> > >>> 
> > >>> See http://git.ideasonboard.com/renesas/vsp-tests.git for an example of
> > >>> device-specific tests. I think some of that could be generalized.
> > >>>   
> > >>>>> It should be simple to use and require very little in the way of
> > >>>>> dependencies. Ideally no dependencies other than what is in v4l-utils
> > >>>>> so it can easily be run on an embedded system as well.
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> For a 64-bit kernel it should run the tests both with 32-bit and
> > >>>>> 64-bit applications.
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> It should also test with both single and multiplanar modes where
> > >>>>> available.
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> Since vivid emulates CEC as well, it should run CEC tests too.
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> As core developers we should have an environment where we can easily
> > >>>>> test our patches with this script (I use a VM for that).

In my case, I'll use Jenkins, but I probably won't be adding any CI
plugin. So, I'd like a simple way to call qemu (or whatever) via the
Jenkins "build" script.

> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> I think maintaining the script (or perhaps scripts) in v4l-utils is
> > >>>>> best since that keeps it in sync with the latest kernel and v4l-utils
> > >>>>> developments.  
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> Makes sense --- and that can be always changed later on if there's a
> > >>>> need to.  
> > >>> 
> > >>> I wonder whether that would be best going forward, especially if we want
> > >>> to add more tests. Wouldn't a v4l-tests project make sense ?  
> > >> 
> > >> Let's see what happens. The more repos you have, the harder it becomes to
> > >> keep everything in sync with the latest kernel code.  
> > > 
> > > Why is that ? How would a v4l-tests repository make it more difficult ?  
> > 
> > Right now whenever we update the uAPI in the kernel we run 'make
> > sync-with-kernel' in v4l-utils to sync it to the latest kernel code. We
> > only do this for this repo, and adding a new repo where you have to do that
> > will just complicate matters and make it more likely you'll forget.  

Actually, that's not the only tree there with the same concept. We do
similar stuff on other userspace trees (xawtv3, tvtime, ...): they
all have a copy of the Kernel header files. I don't remember if we added
a make target to sync from Kernel on all of them - although I vaguely 
remember that I added it (or thought about adding it) to some other tree.

Anyway, as I said early, we could think on using git subtree for
testing stuff. It is easy to use it, but not certain about the
results. Probably it would require some testing.

> Let's automate it then :-)

Maybe this could be done in the future, but sometimes manual
adjustments are needed when "make sync-with-kernel" is used.

It not just copies the new headers. It also copies new RC keymaps
and some code from vivid driver for pattern generation.

Ok, an automated system could be triggered by Kernel commits and
check if "make sync-with-kernel" would produce any changes. If it
produces, it would re-build v4l-utils (and other similar tools),
checking if nothing bad fails. If nothing fails, it would merge
the changes automatically. Otherwise, it may warn someone to merge it.

This could work.

> 
> > I don't see a good reason to create a new repo to store the test code.  
> 
> Having all test code in a separate git tree would make it easier for people to 
> contribute without having to deal with v4l-utils in general. 

> Pretty much every 
> time I want to cross-compile tools from v4l-utils I end up editing the 
> makefiles to work around compilation failures due to missing dependencies that 
> don't have config options, or just to disable tools that don't cross-compile 
> for random reasons and that I don't need.

That is easily solvable. Just fix the build system to not break if
there are missing dependencies or if a build is not possible on some
system.

Splitting the test code on a separate tree won't solve this issue. I mean, 
if someone finds a compilation breakage due to some specific configuration,
the build system should be fixed.

That's said, while I don't have any strong opinion about that ATM, I'm more 
inclined to have things that are specific for a particular testing toolset 
(like KernelCI) on a separate tree.

> A separate repository would also allow us to put testing under the spotlight, 
> instead of hiding the tools and scripts in subdirectories, mixed with other 
> completely unrelated tools and scripts. I would then consider contributing 
> vsp-tests to the V4L2 test suite, while I really wouldn't if it had to be part 
> of v4l-utils.

Yeah, right now, what's there at v4l-utils are must have stuff for
distributions. Testing code is something that doesn't really belong
inside distros. Adding stuff there would just make the tree bigger
for no good reason, IMHO.

> If we want to encourage driver authors to submit tests, we should also give 
> commit rights. A separate repository would help there.

Good point.

> > However, I do think we might want to create a new repo to store video test
> > sequences (something I expect to see when we start on testing codecs).
> > 
> > It's IMHO a bad idea to add many MBs of video files to v4l-utils.  
> 
> That should definitely be a new repository.

And independent from the testing repository itself. There is a catch here:
I don't think GPL is the right license for video files. They should
probably be licensed using some Creative Commons license.

Actually, even a model that would stick a license file for each video
would be possible.

> > >> My experience is that if you want to have good tests, then writing tests
> > >> should be as easy as possible. Keep dependencies at an absolute minimum.  
> > > 
> > > To make it as easy as possible we need to provide high-level APIs, so
> > > dependencies will be unavoidable. I found for instance that Python
> > > bindings were very useful to write tests for DRM/KMS (using libkmsxx), and
> > > I plan to have a look at Python bindings for V4L2.  
> > 
> > Let's just start with simple smoke tests. Python bindings etc. are something
> > for the future. Nobody has the time to work on that anyway.  
> 
> That's not true, TI has added V4L2 Python bindings to kmsxx, and moving the 
> VIN test scripts to Python is on the todo list of the Renesas multimedia 
> upstreaming team. There could be other efforts I'm not aware of. Please don't 
> assume that nobody runs tests just because no patches are sent for the non-
> existing V4L2 test infrastructure :-)

Again, if we have some tests that would depend on specific stuff, the 
building system should be capable of detecting the presence or absence 
of the needed libraries and external programs (like python2, python3, 
pip,...) and work accordingly, disabling tests if the needed toolset is
not available.

I'm with Hans on that matter: better to start with an absolute minimum
of dependencies (like just: make, autotools, c, c++, bash), warranting
that the core will work with just those. We can later add more stuff,
making them optional and teaching the build system to detect the 
extra dependencies.

> 
> > >> Let's be honest, we (well, mainly me) are doing these tests as a side
> > >> job, it's not our main focus.  
> > > 
> > > That's a mindset that needs to evolve :-)  
> > 
> > I want to be more aggressive with this: new APIs will need patches to
> > v4l-utils as well before they can be accepted, and ideally new tests.  
> 
> That's something we should enforce, but to do so, we first need to polish our 
> test infrastructure. In particular v4l2-compliance needs to be modularized and 
> documented to make it easier to contribute new tests.

Agreed. We also need a dtv-compliance tool, in order to test the Digital TV
API.

> 
> I would also go one step further, I would like new APIs to always come with a 
> userspace implementation in a non-test stack.

Good point.

> > And hopefully the kernelci project will lead to some improvements as well.
> >   
> > >> Anything that makes writing tests more painful is bad and just gets in
> > >> the way.  

Yes, but discussing in advance the requirements may delay a little bit
the first implementation, but it will be less painful as we keep adding 
more stuff to it.

> > > 
> > > I don't see any disagreement on this. What makes it easy to write tests
> > > will however be much more prone to arguments.  
> > 
> > Since I'm pretty much the only one who has been writing tests, I'd say that
> > I can make a good argument :-)  
> 
> You're pretty much the only one contributing tests to v4l-utils, but certainly 
> not the only one who has been writing tests.

Talking only about the stuff on trees we maintain, Sean also sent 
some remote controller tests to Kernel selftest.

Thanks,
Mauro

Re: [RFC] Create test script(s?) for regression testing

[Laurent Pinchart]

Hi Mauro,

On Wednesday, 7 November 2018 21:10:35 EET Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote:
> Em Wed, 07 Nov 2018 12:06:55 +0200 Laurent Pinchart escreveu:
> > On Wednesday, 7 November 2018 10:05:12 EET Hans Verkuil wrote:
> >> On 11/06/2018 08:58 PM, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 15:56:34 EET Hans Verkuil wrote:
> >>>> On 11/06/18 14:12, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 13:36:55 EET Sakari Ailus wrote:
> >>>>>> On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 09:37:07AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> After the media summit (heavy on test discussions) and the V4L2
> >>>>>>> event regression we just found it is clear we need to do a better
> >>>>>>> job with testing.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> All the pieces are in place, so what is needed is to combine it
> >>>>>>> and create a script that anyone of us as core developers can run to
> >>>>>>> check for regressions. The same script can be run as part of the
> >>>>>>> kernelci regression testing.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> I'd say that *some* pieces are in place. Of course, the more there
> >>>>>> is, the better.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> The more there are tests, the more important it would be they're
> >>>>>> automated, preferrably without the developer having to run them on
> >>>>>> his/her own machine.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> From my experience with testing, it's important to have both a core
> >>>>> set of tests (a.k.a. smoke tests) that can easily be run on
> >>>>> developers' machines, and extended tests that can be offloaded to a
> >>>>> shared testing infrastructure (but possibly also run locally if
> >>>>> desired).
> >>>> 
> >>>> That was my idea as well for the longer term. First step is to do the
> >>>> basic smoke tests (i.e. run compliance tests, do some (limited)
> >>>> streaming test).
> >>>> 
> >>>> There are more extensive (and longer running) tests that can be done,
> >>>> but that's something to look at later.
> >>>> 
> >>>>>>> We have four virtual drivers: vivid, vim2m, vimc and vicodec. The
> >>>>>>> last one is IMHO not quite good enough yet for testing: it is not
> >>>>>>> fully compliant to the upcoming stateful codec spec. Work for that
> >>>>>>> is planned as part of an Outreachy project.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> My idea is to create a script that is maintained as part of
> >>>>>>> v4l-utils that loads the drivers and runs v4l2-compliance and
> >>>>>>> possibly other tests against the virtual drivers.
> 
> (adding Shuah)
> 
> IMO, the best would be to have something like that as part of Kernel
> self test, as this could give a broader covering than just Kernel CI.
> 
> Yeah, I know that one of the concerns is that the *-compliance stuff
> we have are written in C++ and it is easier to maintain then at
> v4l-utils, but maybe it would be acceptable at kselftest to have a
> test bench there with would download the sources from a git tree
> and then build just the v4l2-compliance stuff, e. g. having a Kernel
> self test target that would do something like:
> 
> 	git clone --depth 1 git://linuxtv.org/v4l-utils.git tests && \
> 	cd tests && ./autogen.sh && make tests && ./run_tests.sh

Let me make sure I understand this properly. Are you proposing to add to 
kselftest, which is part of the Linux kernel, and as such benefits from the 
level of trust of Linus' tree, and which is run by a very large number of 
machines from developer workstations to automated large-scale test 
infrastructure, a provision to execute locally code that is downloaded at 
runtime from the internet, with all the security issues this implies ?

> (the actual selftest target would likely be different, as it
>  should take into account make O=<some_output_dir>)
> 
> If this would be acceptable upstream, then we'll need to stick with the
> output format defined by Kernel Self Test[1].
> 
> [1] I guess it uses the TAP13 format:
> 	https://testanything.org/tap-version-13-specification.html
> 
> >>>>>> How about spending a little time to pick a suitable framework for
> >>>>>> running the tests? It could be useful to get more informative
> >>>>>> reports than just pass / fail.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> We should keep in mind that other tests will be added later, and the
> >>>>> test framework should make that easy.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Since we want to be able to run this on kernelci.org, I think it
> >>>> makes sense to let the kernelci folks (Hi Ezequiel!) decide this.
> >>> 
> >>> KernelCI isn't the only test infrastructure out there, so let's not
> >>> forget about the other ones.
> >> 
> >> True, but they are putting time and money into this, so they get to
> >> choose as far as I am concerned :-)
> 
> Surely, but no matter who is paying, if one wants to merge things upstream,
> he/she has to stick with upstream ruleset.
> 
> That's said, we should try to not make life harder than it should be for
> it, but some things should be standardized, if we want future contributions
> there. At very minimal, from my side, I'd like it to be as much compatible
> with Kernel selftest infrastructure as possible.
> 
> I would try to avoid placing KernelCI-specific stuff (like adding LAVA code)
> inside v4l-utils tree. With regards to that, one alternative would be to
> split KernelCI specific code on a different tree and use "git subtree".

I don't think we need git submodules (assuming this is what you mean). Our 
responsibility is to provide tests. KernelCI's responsibility is to integrate 
them. We should make the integration as easy as possible, but I don't think we 
need to maintain the integration in our test tree.

> > It's still our responsibility to give V4L2 a good test framework, and to
> > drive it in the right direction. We don't accept V4L2 API extensions
> > blindly just because a company happens to put time and money into it
> > (there may have been one exception, but it's not the rule), we instead
> > review all proposals carefully. The same should be true with tests.
> > 
> >> If others are interested and willing to put up time and money, they
> >> should let themselves be known.
> >> 
> >> I'm not going to work on such an integration, although I happily accept
> >> patches.
> >> 
> >>>> As a developer all I need is a script to run smoke tests so I can
> >>>> catch most regressions (you never catch all).
> >>>> 
> >>>> I'm happy to work with them to make any changes to compliance tools
> >>>> and scripts so they fit better into their test framework.
> >>>> 
> >>>> The one key requirement to all this is that you should be able to run
> >>>> these tests without dependencies to all sorts of external packages/
> >>>> libraries.
> >>> 
> >>> v4l-utils already has a set of dependencies, but those are largely
> >>> manageable. For v4l2-compliance we'll install libv4l, which depends on
> >>> libjpeg.
> >> 
> >> That's already too much. You can manually build v4l2-compliance with no
> >> dependencies whatsoever, but we're missing a Makefile target for that.
> >> It's been useful for embedded systems with poor cross-compile
> >> environments.
> > 
> > I don't think depending on libv4l and libjpeg would be a big issue.
> 
> Having v4l2-compliance depending on libv4l is not an issue, as both are
> at the same tree. Except for glibc, I would avoid any other dependencies
> like libjpeg.
> 
> > On the other hand, given what v4l2-compliance do, one could also argue
> > that it should not use libv4l at all and go straight for the kernel API.
> > This boils down to the question of whether we consider libv4l as part of
> > the official V4L2 stack, or if we want to officially deprecate it given
> > that it hasn't really lived to the promises it made.
> 
> There's no question here: currently, libv4l2 is part of official V4L2
> stack, as almost all V4L2 generic applications rely on it. We made some
> pressure for apps to use it and we did the conversion ourselves for several
> existing apps. So, for the better of the worse, we're committed to it.

Then we need a test suite that will exercise the libv4l API, and I would argue 
also a test suite that will exercise the V4L2 API directly.

> When libcamera becomes a reality, and applications get ported to it, then
> it would make sense to re-evaluate it.
> 
> >> It is really very useful to be able to compile those core utilities with
> >> no external libraries other than glibc. You obviously will loose some
> >> functionality when you compile it that way.
> >> 
> >> These utilities are not like a typical application. I really don't care
> >> how many libraries are linked in by e.g. qv4l2, xawtv, etc. But for
> >> v4l2-ctl, v4l2-compliance, cec-ctl/follower/compliance (and probably a
> >> few others as well) you want a minimum of dependencies so you can run
> >> them everywhere, even with the crappiest toolchains or cross-compile
> >> environments.
> > 
> > If you want to make them easy to deploy, a more useful option would be a
> > makefile rule to compile them statically.
> 
> I agree. Also, the better would be to actually have an option to build them
> in a way that both 32 bits on 64 bits ioctl calls would be tested.

That's easy, you can just compile two binaries, a 32-bit version and a 64-bit 
version.

> From my side, a really useful smoke test would be to detect if a 32-bits
> ioctl call is not properly handled by the Kernel, as this is something
> that people usually forget to test when touching media APIs.
> 
> >>>>> Regarding the test output, many formats exist (see
> >>>>> https://testanything.org/ and
> >>>>> https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing
> >>>>> /json_test_results_format.md for instance), we should pick one of the
> >>>>> leading industry standards (what those standards are still needs to
> >>>>> be researched  :-)).
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>> Do note that for different hardware the tests would be likely
> >>>>>> different as well although there are classes of devices for which
> >>>>>> the exact same tests would be applicable.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> See http://git.ideasonboard.com/renesas/vsp-tests.git for an example
> >>>>> of device-specific tests. I think some of that could be generalized.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>>> It should be simple to use and require very little in the way of
> >>>>>>> dependencies. Ideally no dependencies other than what is in
> >>>>>>> v4l-utils so it can easily be run on an embedded system as well.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> For a 64-bit kernel it should run the tests both with 32-bit and
> >>>>>>> 64-bit applications.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> It should also test with both single and multiplanar modes where
> >>>>>>> available.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Since vivid emulates CEC as well, it should run CEC tests too.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> As core developers we should have an environment where we can
> >>>>>>> easily test our patches with this script (I use a VM for that).
> 
> In my case, I'll use Jenkins, but I probably won't be adding any CI
> plugin. So, I'd like a simple way to call qemu (or whatever) via the
> Jenkins "build" script.
> 
> >>>>>>> I think maintaining the script (or perhaps scripts) in v4l-utils
> >>>>>>> is best since that keeps it in sync with the latest kernel and
> >>>>>>> v4l-utils developments.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Makes sense --- and that can be always changed later on if there's
> >>>>>> a need to.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I wonder whether that would be best going forward, especially if we
> >>>>> want to add more tests. Wouldn't a v4l-tests project make sense ?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Let's see what happens. The more repos you have, the harder it
> >>>> becomes to keep everything in sync with the latest kernel code.
> >>> 
> >>> Why is that ? How would a v4l-tests repository make it more difficult
> >>> ?
> >> 
> >> Right now whenever we update the uAPI in the kernel we run 'make
> >> sync-with-kernel' in v4l-utils to sync it to the latest kernel code. We
> >> only do this for this repo, and adding a new repo where you have to do
> >> that will just complicate matters and make it more likely you'll forget.
> 
> Actually, that's not the only tree there with the same concept. We do
> similar stuff on other userspace trees (xawtv3, tvtime, ...): they
> all have a copy of the Kernel header files. I don't remember if we added
> a make target to sync from Kernel on all of them - although I vaguely
> remember that I added it (or thought about adding it) to some other tree.
> 
> Anyway, as I said early, we could think on using git subtree for
> testing stuff. It is easy to use it, but not certain about the
> results. Probably it would require some testing.
> 
> > Let's automate it then :-)
> 
> Maybe this could be done in the future, but sometimes manual
> adjustments are needed when "make sync-with-kernel" is used.
> 
> It not just copies the new headers. It also copies new RC keymaps
> and some code from vivid driver for pattern generation.
> 
> Ok, an automated system could be triggered by Kernel commits and
> check if "make sync-with-kernel" would produce any changes. If it
> produces, it would re-build v4l-utils (and other similar tools),
> checking if nothing bad fails. If nothing fails, it would merge
> the changes automatically. Otherwise, it may warn someone to merge it.
> 
> This could work.
> 
> >> I don't see a good reason to create a new repo to store the test code.
> > 
> > Having all test code in a separate git tree would make it easier for
> > people to contribute without having to deal with v4l-utils in general.
> > 
> > Pretty much every time I want to cross-compile tools from v4l-utils I end
> > up editing the makefiles to work around compilation failures due to
> > missing dependencies that don't have config options, or just to disable
> > tools that don't cross-compile for random reasons and that I don't need.
> 
> That is easily solvable. Just fix the build system to not break if
> there are missing dependencies or if a build is not possible on some
> system.

I'm not saying it's unsolvable, just that it's a problem today, and I can 
easily imagine it being a problem for new contributors. v4l-utils is a 
collection of miscellaneous tools that don't really fit anywhere else, and 
makes sense as such, but for projects that we expect (or at least hope) to 
grow and treat as first-class citizen, v4l-utils may not be the best option.

> Splitting the test code on a separate tree won't solve this issue. I mean,
> if someone finds a compilation breakage due to some specific configuration,
> the build system should be fixed.
> 
> That's said, while I don't have any strong opinion about that ATM, I'm more
> inclined to have things that are specific for a particular testing toolset
> (like KernelCI) on a separate tree.
> 
> > A separate repository would also allow us to put testing under the
> > spotlight, instead of hiding the tools and scripts in subdirectories,
> > mixed with other completely unrelated tools and scripts. I would then
> > consider contributing vsp-tests to the V4L2 test suite, while I really
> > wouldn't if it had to be part of v4l-utils.
> 
> Yeah, right now, what's there at v4l-utils are must have stuff for
> distributions. Testing code is something that doesn't really belong
> inside distros. Adding stuff there would just make the tree bigger
> for no good reason, IMHO.
> 
> > If we want to encourage driver authors to submit tests, we should also
> > give commit rights. A separate repository would help there.
> 
> Good point.
> 
> >> However, I do think we might want to create a new repo to store video
> >> test sequences (something I expect to see when we start on testing
> >> codecs).
> >> 
> >> It's IMHO a bad idea to add many MBs of video files to v4l-utils.
> > 
> > That should definitely be a new repository.
> 
> And independent from the testing repository itself. There is a catch here:
> I don't think GPL is the right license for video files. They should
> probably be licensed using some Creative Commons license.
> 
> Actually, even a model that would stick a license file for each video
> would be possible.
> 
> >>>> My experience is that if you want to have good tests, then writing
> >>>> tests should be as easy as possible. Keep dependencies at an absolute
> >>>> minimum.
> >>> 
> >>> To make it as easy as possible we need to provide high-level APIs, so
> >>> dependencies will be unavoidable. I found for instance that Python
> >>> bindings were very useful to write tests for DRM/KMS (using libkmsxx),
> >>> and I plan to have a look at Python bindings for V4L2.
> >> 
> >> Let's just start with simple smoke tests. Python bindings etc. are
> >> something for the future. Nobody has the time to work on that anyway.
> > 
> > That's not true, TI has added V4L2 Python bindings to kmsxx, and moving
> > the VIN test scripts to Python is on the todo list of the Renesas
> > multimedia upstreaming team. There could be other efforts I'm not aware
> > of. Please don't assume that nobody runs tests just because no patches are
> > sent for the non- existing V4L2 test infrastructure :-)
> 
> Again, if we have some tests that would depend on specific stuff, the
> building system should be capable of detecting the presence or absence
> of the needed libraries and external programs (like python2, python3,
> pip,...) and work accordingly, disabling tests if the needed toolset is
> not available.
> 
> I'm with Hans on that matter: better to start with an absolute minimum
> of dependencies (like just: make, autotools, c, c++, bash),

On a site note, for a new project, we might want to move away from autotools. 
cmake and meson are possible alternatives that are way less painful.

> warranting that the core will work with just those. We can later add more
> stuff, making them optional and teaching the build system to detect the
> extra dependencies.

My "that's not true" comment was related to the fact that nobody has the time 
to work on that anyway. I don't dispute the fact that we should start with the 
most basic tests, which will have the least dependencies.

> >>>> Let's be honest, we (well, mainly me) are doing these tests as a side
> >>>> job, it's not our main focus.
> >>> 
> >>> That's a mindset that needs to evolve :-)
> >> 
> >> I want to be more aggressive with this: new APIs will need patches to
> >> v4l-utils as well before they can be accepted, and ideally new tests.
> > 
> > That's something we should enforce, but to do so, we first need to polish
> > our test infrastructure. In particular v4l2-compliance needs to be
> > modularized and documented to make it easier to contribute new tests.
> 
> Agreed. We also need a dtv-compliance tool, in order to test the Digital TV
> API.
> 
> > I would also go one step further, I would like new APIs to always come
> > with a userspace implementation in a non-test stack.
> 
> Good point.
> 
> >> And hopefully the kernelci project will lead to some improvements as
> >> well.
> >> 
> >>>> Anything that makes writing tests more painful is bad and just gets
> >>>> in the way.
> 
> Yes, but discussing in advance the requirements may delay a little bit
> the first implementation, but it will be less painful as we keep adding
> more stuff to it.
> 
> >>> I don't see any disagreement on this. What makes it easy to write
> >>> tests will however be much more prone to arguments.
> >> 
> >> Since I'm pretty much the only one who has been writing tests, I'd say
> >> that I can make a good argument :-)
> > 
> > You're pretty much the only one contributing tests to v4l-utils, but
> > certainly not the only one who has been writing tests.
> 
> Talking only about the stuff on trees we maintain, Sean also sent
> some remote controller tests to Kernel selftest.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: [RFC] Create test script(s?) for regression testing

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Em Wed, 07 Nov 2018 21:35:32 +0200
Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com> escreveu:

> Hi Mauro,
> 
> On Wednesday, 7 November 2018 21:10:35 EET Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote:
> > Em Wed, 07 Nov 2018 12:06:55 +0200 Laurent Pinchart escreveu:  
> > > On Wednesday, 7 November 2018 10:05:12 EET Hans Verkuil wrote:  
> > >> On 11/06/2018 08:58 PM, Laurent Pinchart wrote:  
> > >>> On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 15:56:34 EET Hans Verkuil wrote:  
> > >>>> On 11/06/18 14:12, Laurent Pinchart wrote:  
> > >>>>> On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 13:36:55 EET Sakari Ailus wrote:  
> > >>>>>> On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 09:37:07AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:  
> > >>>>>>> Hi all,
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>> After the media summit (heavy on test discussions) and the V4L2
> > >>>>>>> event regression we just found it is clear we need to do a better
> > >>>>>>> job with testing.
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>> All the pieces are in place, so what is needed is to combine it
> > >>>>>>> and create a script that anyone of us as core developers can run to
> > >>>>>>> check for regressions. The same script can be run as part of the
> > >>>>>>> kernelci regression testing.  
> > >>>>>> 
> > >>>>>> I'd say that *some* pieces are in place. Of course, the more there
> > >>>>>> is, the better.
> > >>>>>> 
> > >>>>>> The more there are tests, the more important it would be they're
> > >>>>>> automated, preferrably without the developer having to run them on
> > >>>>>> his/her own machine.  
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> From my experience with testing, it's important to have both a core
> > >>>>> set of tests (a.k.a. smoke tests) that can easily be run on
> > >>>>> developers' machines, and extended tests that can be offloaded to a
> > >>>>> shared testing infrastructure (but possibly also run locally if
> > >>>>> desired).  
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> That was my idea as well for the longer term. First step is to do the
> > >>>> basic smoke tests (i.e. run compliance tests, do some (limited)
> > >>>> streaming test).
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> There are more extensive (and longer running) tests that can be done,
> > >>>> but that's something to look at later.
> > >>>>   
> > >>>>>>> We have four virtual drivers: vivid, vim2m, vimc and vicodec. The
> > >>>>>>> last one is IMHO not quite good enough yet for testing: it is not
> > >>>>>>> fully compliant to the upcoming stateful codec spec. Work for that
> > >>>>>>> is planned as part of an Outreachy project.
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>> My idea is to create a script that is maintained as part of
> > >>>>>>> v4l-utils that loads the drivers and runs v4l2-compliance and
> > >>>>>>> possibly other tests against the virtual drivers.  
> > 
> > (adding Shuah)
> > 
> > IMO, the best would be to have something like that as part of Kernel
> > self test, as this could give a broader covering than just Kernel CI.
> > 
> > Yeah, I know that one of the concerns is that the *-compliance stuff
> > we have are written in C++ and it is easier to maintain then at
> > v4l-utils, but maybe it would be acceptable at kselftest to have a
> > test bench there with would download the sources from a git tree
> > and then build just the v4l2-compliance stuff, e. g. having a Kernel
> > self test target that would do something like:
> > 
> > 	git clone --depth 1 git://linuxtv.org/v4l-utils.git tests && \
> > 	cd tests && ./autogen.sh && make tests && ./run_tests.sh  
> 
> Let me make sure I understand this properly. Are you proposing to add to 
> kselftest, which is part of the Linux kernel, and as such benefits from the 
> level of trust of Linus' tree, and which is run by a very large number of 
> machines from developer workstations to automated large-scale test 
> infrastructure, a provision to execute locally code that is downloaded at 
> runtime from the internet, with all the security issues this implies ?

No, I'm not proposing to make it unsafe. The above is just a rogue
example to explain an idea. The actual implementation should take
security into account. It could, for example, use things like downloading
a signed tarball and run it inside a container, use some git tree
hosted at kernel.org, etc.

> 
> > (the actual selftest target would likely be different, as it
> >  should take into account make O=<some_output_dir>)
> > 
> > If this would be acceptable upstream, then we'll need to stick with the
> > output format defined by Kernel Self Test[1].
> > 
> > [1] I guess it uses the TAP13 format:
> > 	https://testanything.org/tap-version-13-specification.html
> >   
> > >>>>>> How about spending a little time to pick a suitable framework for
> > >>>>>> running the tests? It could be useful to get more informative
> > >>>>>> reports than just pass / fail.  
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> We should keep in mind that other tests will be added later, and the
> > >>>>> test framework should make that easy.  
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> Since we want to be able to run this on kernelci.org, I think it
> > >>>> makes sense to let the kernelci folks (Hi Ezequiel!) decide this.  
> > >>> 
> > >>> KernelCI isn't the only test infrastructure out there, so let's not
> > >>> forget about the other ones.  
> > >> 
> > >> True, but they are putting time and money into this, so they get to
> > >> choose as far as I am concerned :-)  
> > 
> > Surely, but no matter who is paying, if one wants to merge things upstream,
> > he/she has to stick with upstream ruleset.
> > 
> > That's said, we should try to not make life harder than it should be for
> > it, but some things should be standardized, if we want future contributions
> > there. At very minimal, from my side, I'd like it to be as much compatible
> > with Kernel selftest infrastructure as possible.
> > 
> > I would try to avoid placing KernelCI-specific stuff (like adding LAVA code)
> > inside v4l-utils tree. With regards to that, one alternative would be to
> > split KernelCI specific code on a different tree and use "git subtree".  
> 
> I don't think we need git submodules (assuming this is what you mean). Our 
> responsibility is to provide tests. KernelCI's responsibility is to integrate 
> them. We should make the integration as easy as possible, but I don't think we 
> need to maintain the integration in our test tree.

Agreed. I'm just saying that maybe git subtrees could help with making it
easy to integrate different maintained trees.

> 
> > > It's still our responsibility to give V4L2 a good test framework, and to
> > > drive it in the right direction. We don't accept V4L2 API extensions
> > > blindly just because a company happens to put time and money into it
> > > (there may have been one exception, but it's not the rule), we instead
> > > review all proposals carefully. The same should be true with tests.
> > >   
> > >> If others are interested and willing to put up time and money, they
> > >> should let themselves be known.
> > >> 
> > >> I'm not going to work on such an integration, although I happily accept
> > >> patches.
> > >>   
> > >>>> As a developer all I need is a script to run smoke tests so I can
> > >>>> catch most regressions (you never catch all).
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> I'm happy to work with them to make any changes to compliance tools
> > >>>> and scripts so they fit better into their test framework.
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> The one key requirement to all this is that you should be able to run
> > >>>> these tests without dependencies to all sorts of external packages/
> > >>>> libraries.  
> > >>> 
> > >>> v4l-utils already has a set of dependencies, but those are largely
> > >>> manageable. For v4l2-compliance we'll install libv4l, which depends on
> > >>> libjpeg.  
> > >> 
> > >> That's already too much. You can manually build v4l2-compliance with no
> > >> dependencies whatsoever, but we're missing a Makefile target for that.
> > >> It's been useful for embedded systems with poor cross-compile
> > >> environments.  
> > > 
> > > I don't think depending on libv4l and libjpeg would be a big issue.  
> > 
> > Having v4l2-compliance depending on libv4l is not an issue, as both are
> > at the same tree. Except for glibc, I would avoid any other dependencies
> > like libjpeg.
> >   
> > > On the other hand, given what v4l2-compliance do, one could also argue
> > > that it should not use libv4l at all and go straight for the kernel API.
> > > This boils down to the question of whether we consider libv4l as part of
> > > the official V4L2 stack, or if we want to officially deprecate it given
> > > that it hasn't really lived to the promises it made.  
> > 
> > There's no question here: currently, libv4l2 is part of official V4L2
> > stack, as almost all V4L2 generic applications rely on it. We made some
> > pressure for apps to use it and we did the conversion ourselves for several
> > existing apps. So, for the better of the worse, we're committed to it.  
> 
> Then we need a test suite that will exercise the libv4l API, and I would argue 
> also a test suite that will exercise the V4L2 API directly.

Makes sense.

> 
> > When libcamera becomes a reality, and applications get ported to it, then
> > it would make sense to re-evaluate it.
> >   
> > >> It is really very useful to be able to compile those core utilities with
> > >> no external libraries other than glibc. You obviously will loose some
> > >> functionality when you compile it that way.
> > >> 
> > >> These utilities are not like a typical application. I really don't care
> > >> how many libraries are linked in by e.g. qv4l2, xawtv, etc. But for
> > >> v4l2-ctl, v4l2-compliance, cec-ctl/follower/compliance (and probably a
> > >> few others as well) you want a minimum of dependencies so you can run
> > >> them everywhere, even with the crappiest toolchains or cross-compile
> > >> environments.  
> > > 
> > > If you want to make them easy to deploy, a more useful option would be a
> > > makefile rule to compile them statically.  
> > 
> > I agree. Also, the better would be to actually have an option to build them
> > in a way that both 32 bits on 64 bits ioctl calls would be tested.  
> 
> That's easy, you can just compile two binaries, a 32-bit version and a 64-bit 
> version.

Yes, that's the easiest way to do it. The point is that a "make tests" target 
should do it automatically, and store the 32bits and 64bits version of the
tools with different names, in order for both to be available at the same
time, as both will be called by a tests script.

Another possibility (that would require some rework) would be to have just
a single binary that would do both 32-bits and 64 bits calls, checking
if the net result is identical.

> 
> > From my side, a really useful smoke test would be to detect if a 32-bits
> > ioctl call is not properly handled by the Kernel, as this is something
> > that people usually forget to test when touching media APIs.
> >   
> > >>>>> Regarding the test output, many formats exist (see
> > >>>>> https://testanything.org/ and
> > >>>>> https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing
> > >>>>> /json_test_results_format.md for instance), we should pick one of the
> > >>>>> leading industry standards (what those standards are still needs to
> > >>>>> be researched  :-)).
> > >>>>>   
> > >>>>>> Do note that for different hardware the tests would be likely
> > >>>>>> different as well although there are classes of devices for which
> > >>>>>> the exact same tests would be applicable.  
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> See http://git.ideasonboard.com/renesas/vsp-tests.git for an example
> > >>>>> of device-specific tests. I think some of that could be generalized.
> > >>>>>   
> > >>>>>>> It should be simple to use and require very little in the way of
> > >>>>>>> dependencies. Ideally no dependencies other than what is in
> > >>>>>>> v4l-utils so it can easily be run on an embedded system as well.
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>> For a 64-bit kernel it should run the tests both with 32-bit and
> > >>>>>>> 64-bit applications.
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>> It should also test with both single and multiplanar modes where
> > >>>>>>> available.
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>> Since vivid emulates CEC as well, it should run CEC tests too.
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>> As core developers we should have an environment where we can
> > >>>>>>> easily test our patches with this script (I use a VM for that).  
> > 
> > In my case, I'll use Jenkins, but I probably won't be adding any CI
> > plugin. So, I'd like a simple way to call qemu (or whatever) via the
> > Jenkins "build" script.
> >   
> > >>>>>>> I think maintaining the script (or perhaps scripts) in v4l-utils
> > >>>>>>> is best since that keeps it in sync with the latest kernel and
> > >>>>>>> v4l-utils developments.  
> > >>>>>> 
> > >>>>>> Makes sense --- and that can be always changed later on if there's
> > >>>>>> a need to.  
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> I wonder whether that would be best going forward, especially if we
> > >>>>> want to add more tests. Wouldn't a v4l-tests project make sense ?  
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> Let's see what happens. The more repos you have, the harder it
> > >>>> becomes to keep everything in sync with the latest kernel code.  
> > >>> 
> > >>> Why is that ? How would a v4l-tests repository make it more difficult
> > >>> ?  
> > >> 
> > >> Right now whenever we update the uAPI in the kernel we run 'make
> > >> sync-with-kernel' in v4l-utils to sync it to the latest kernel code. We
> > >> only do this for this repo, and adding a new repo where you have to do
> > >> that will just complicate matters and make it more likely you'll forget.  
> > 
> > Actually, that's not the only tree there with the same concept. We do
> > similar stuff on other userspace trees (xawtv3, tvtime, ...): they
> > all have a copy of the Kernel header files. I don't remember if we added
> > a make target to sync from Kernel on all of them - although I vaguely
> > remember that I added it (or thought about adding it) to some other tree.
> > 
> > Anyway, as I said early, we could think on using git subtree for
> > testing stuff. It is easy to use it, but not certain about the
> > results. Probably it would require some testing.
> >   
> > > Let's automate it then :-)  
> > 
> > Maybe this could be done in the future, but sometimes manual
> > adjustments are needed when "make sync-with-kernel" is used.
> > 
> > It not just copies the new headers. It also copies new RC keymaps
> > and some code from vivid driver for pattern generation.
> > 
> > Ok, an automated system could be triggered by Kernel commits and
> > check if "make sync-with-kernel" would produce any changes. If it
> > produces, it would re-build v4l-utils (and other similar tools),
> > checking if nothing bad fails. If nothing fails, it would merge
> > the changes automatically. Otherwise, it may warn someone to merge it.
> > 
> > This could work.
> >   
> > >> I don't see a good reason to create a new repo to store the test code.  
> > > 
> > > Having all test code in a separate git tree would make it easier for
> > > people to contribute without having to deal with v4l-utils in general.
> > > 
> > > Pretty much every time I want to cross-compile tools from v4l-utils I end
> > > up editing the makefiles to work around compilation failures due to
> > > missing dependencies that don't have config options, or just to disable
> > > tools that don't cross-compile for random reasons and that I don't need.  
> > 
> > That is easily solvable. Just fix the build system to not break if
> > there are missing dependencies or if a build is not possible on some
> > system.  
> 
> I'm not saying it's unsolvable, just that it's a problem today, and I can 
> easily imagine it being a problem for new contributors. v4l-utils is a 
> collection of miscellaneous tools that don't really fit anywhere else, and 
> makes sense as such, but for projects that we expect (or at least hope) to 
> grow and treat as first-class citizen, v4l-utils may not be the best option.
> 
> > Splitting the test code on a separate tree won't solve this issue. I mean,
> > if someone finds a compilation breakage due to some specific configuration,
> > the build system should be fixed.
> > 
> > That's said, while I don't have any strong opinion about that ATM, I'm more
> > inclined to have things that are specific for a particular testing toolset
> > (like KernelCI) on a separate tree.
> >   
> > > A separate repository would also allow us to put testing under the
> > > spotlight, instead of hiding the tools and scripts in subdirectories,
> > > mixed with other completely unrelated tools and scripts. I would then
> > > consider contributing vsp-tests to the V4L2 test suite, while I really
> > > wouldn't if it had to be part of v4l-utils.  
> > 
> > Yeah, right now, what's there at v4l-utils are must have stuff for
> > distributions. Testing code is something that doesn't really belong
> > inside distros. Adding stuff there would just make the tree bigger
> > for no good reason, IMHO.
> >   
> > > If we want to encourage driver authors to submit tests, we should also
> > > give commit rights. A separate repository would help there.  
> > 
> > Good point.
> >   
> > >> However, I do think we might want to create a new repo to store video
> > >> test sequences (something I expect to see when we start on testing
> > >> codecs).
> > >> 
> > >> It's IMHO a bad idea to add many MBs of video files to v4l-utils.  
> > > 
> > > That should definitely be a new repository.  
> > 
> > And independent from the testing repository itself. There is a catch here:
> > I don't think GPL is the right license for video files. They should
> > probably be licensed using some Creative Commons license.
> > 
> > Actually, even a model that would stick a license file for each video
> > would be possible.
> >   
> > >>>> My experience is that if you want to have good tests, then writing
> > >>>> tests should be as easy as possible. Keep dependencies at an absolute
> > >>>> minimum.  
> > >>> 
> > >>> To make it as easy as possible we need to provide high-level APIs, so
> > >>> dependencies will be unavoidable. I found for instance that Python
> > >>> bindings were very useful to write tests for DRM/KMS (using libkmsxx),
> > >>> and I plan to have a look at Python bindings for V4L2.  
> > >> 
> > >> Let's just start with simple smoke tests. Python bindings etc. are
> > >> something for the future. Nobody has the time to work on that anyway.  
> > > 
> > > That's not true, TI has added V4L2 Python bindings to kmsxx, and moving
> > > the VIN test scripts to Python is on the todo list of the Renesas
> > > multimedia upstreaming team. There could be other efforts I'm not aware
> > > of. Please don't assume that nobody runs tests just because no patches are
> > > sent for the non- existing V4L2 test infrastructure :-)  
> > 
> > Again, if we have some tests that would depend on specific stuff, the
> > building system should be capable of detecting the presence or absence
> > of the needed libraries and external programs (like python2, python3,
> > pip,...) and work accordingly, disabling tests if the needed toolset is
> > not available.
> > 
> > I'm with Hans on that matter: better to start with an absolute minimum
> > of dependencies (like just: make, autotools, c, c++, bash),  
> 
> On a site note, for a new project, we might want to move away from autotools. 
> cmake and meson are possible alternatives that are way less painful.

Each toolset has advantages or disadvantages. We all know how
autotools can be painful.

One bad thing with cmake is that they deprecate stuff. A long-live project 
usually require several" backward" compat stuff at cmake files in order 
to cope with different behaviors that change as cmake evolves.

I never used mason myself.

> 
> > warranting that the core will work with just those. We can later add more
> > stuff, making them optional and teaching the build system to detect the
> > extra dependencies.  
> 
> My "that's not true" comment was related to the fact that nobody has the time 
> to work on that anyway. I don't dispute the fact that we should start with the 
> most basic tests, which will have the least dependencies.
> 
> > >>>> Let's be honest, we (well, mainly me) are doing these tests as a side
> > >>>> job, it's not our main focus.  
> > >>> 
> > >>> That's a mindset that needs to evolve :-)  
> > >> 
> > >> I want to be more aggressive with this: new APIs will need patches to
> > >> v4l-utils as well before they can be accepted, and ideally new tests.  
> > > 
> > > That's something we should enforce, but to do so, we first need to polish
> > > our test infrastructure. In particular v4l2-compliance needs to be
> > > modularized and documented to make it easier to contribute new tests.  
> > 
> > Agreed. We also need a dtv-compliance tool, in order to test the Digital TV
> > API.
> >   
> > > I would also go one step further, I would like new APIs to always come
> > > with a userspace implementation in a non-test stack.  
> > 
> > Good point.
> >   
> > >> And hopefully the kernelci project will lead to some improvements as
> > >> well.
> > >>   
> > >>>> Anything that makes writing tests more painful is bad and just gets
> > >>>> in the way.  
> > 
> > Yes, but discussing in advance the requirements may delay a little bit
> > the first implementation, but it will be less painful as we keep adding
> > more stuff to it.
> >   
> > >>> I don't see any disagreement on this. What makes it easy to write
> > >>> tests will however be much more prone to arguments.  
> > >> 
> > >> Since I'm pretty much the only one who has been writing tests, I'd say
> > >> that I can make a good argument :-)  
> > > 
> > > You're pretty much the only one contributing tests to v4l-utils, but
> > > certainly not the only one who has been writing tests.  
> > 
> > Talking only about the stuff on trees we maintain, Sean also sent
> > some remote controller tests to Kernel selftest.  
> 



Thanks,
Mauro

Re: [RFC] Create test script(s?) for regression testing

[Laurent Pinchart]

Hi Mauro,

On Wednesday, 7 November 2018 21:53:20 EET Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote:
> Em Wed, 07 Nov 2018 21:35:32 +0200 Laurent Pinchart escreveu:
> > On Wednesday, 7 November 2018 21:10:35 EET Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote:

[snip]

> >> I'm with Hans on that matter: better to start with an absolute minimum
> >> of dependencies (like just: make, autotools, c, c++, bash),
> > 
> > On a site note, for a new project, we might want to move away from
> > autotools. cmake and meson are possible alternatives that are way less
> > painful.
> 
> Each toolset has advantages or disadvantages. We all know how
> autotools can be painful.
> 
> One bad thing with cmake is that they deprecate stuff. A long-live project
> usually require several" backward" compat stuff at cmake files in order
> to cope with different behaviors that change as cmake evolves.

I don't know how much of a problem that would be. My experience with cmake is 
good so far, but I haven't used it in a large scale project with 10+ years of 
contributions :-)

> I never used mason myself.

It's the build system we picked for libcamera, I expect to provide feedback in 
the not too distant future.

[snip]

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: [RFC] Create test script(s?) for regression testing

[Shuah Khan]

On 11/07/2018 12:10 PM, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote:
> Em Wed, 07 Nov 2018 12:06:55 +0200
> Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com> escreveu:
> 
>> Hi Hans,
>>
>> On Wednesday, 7 November 2018 10:05:12 EET Hans Verkuil wrote:
>>> On 11/06/2018 08:58 PM, Laurent Pinchart wrote:  
>>>> On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 15:56:34 EET Hans Verkuil wrote:  
>>>>> On 11/06/18 14:12, Laurent Pinchart wrote:  
>>>>>> On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 13:36:55 EET Sakari Ailus wrote:  
>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 09:37:07AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:  
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After the media summit (heavy on test discussions) and the V4L2 event
>>>>>>>> regression we just found it is clear we need to do a better job with
>>>>>>>> testing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All the pieces are in place, so what is needed is to combine it and
>>>>>>>> create a script that anyone of us as core developers can run to check
>>>>>>>> for regressions. The same script can be run as part of the kernelci
>>>>>>>> regression testing.  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd say that *some* pieces are in place. Of course, the more there is,
>>>>>>> the better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The more there are tests, the more important it would be they're
>>>>>>> automated, preferrably without the developer having to run them on his/
>>>>>>> her own machine.  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From my experience with testing, it's important to have both a core set
>>>>>> of tests (a.k.a. smoke tests) that can easily be run on developers'
>>>>>> machines, and extended tests that can be offloaded to a shared testing
>>>>>> infrastructure (but possibly also run locally if desired).  
>>>>>
>>>>> That was my idea as well for the longer term. First step is to do the
>>>>> basic smoke tests (i.e. run compliance tests, do some (limited) streaming
>>>>> test).
>>>>>
>>>>> There are more extensive (and longer running) tests that can be done, but
>>>>> that's something to look at later.
>>>>>   
>>>>>>>> We have four virtual drivers: vivid, vim2m, vimc and vicodec. The last
>>>>>>>> one is IMHO not quite good enough yet for testing: it is not fully
>>>>>>>> compliant to the upcoming stateful codec spec. Work for that is
>>>>>>>> planned as part of an Outreachy project.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My idea is to create a script that is maintained as part of v4l-utils
>>>>>>>> that loads the drivers and runs v4l2-compliance and possibly other
>>>>>>>> tests against the virtual drivers.  
> 
> (adding Shuah)
> 
> IMO, the best would be to have something like that as part of Kernel
> self test, as this could give a broader covering than just Kernel CI.
> 

I agree with the broader coverage benefit that comes with adding tests to kselftest.
It makes it easier for making changes to tests/tools coupled with kernel/driver
changes. Common TAP13 reporting can be taken advantage of without doing any additional
work in the tests if author chooses to do so.

Tests can be added such that they don't get run by default if there is a reason do so
and Kernel CI and other rings can invoke it as a special case if necessary.

There are very clear advantages to making these tests part of the kernel source tree.
We can discuss at the Kernel Summit next week if you are interested.

thanks,
-- Shuah

Re: [RFC] Create test script(s?) for regression testing

[Ezequiel Garcia]

On Wed, 2018-11-07 at 09:05 +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> On 11/06/2018 08:58 PM, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> > Hi Hans,
> > 
> > On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 15:56:34 EET Hans Verkuil wrote:
> > > On 11/06/18 14:12, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 13:36:55 EET Sakari Ailus wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 09:37:07AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > After the media summit (heavy on test discussions) and the V4L2 event
> > > > > > regression we just found it is clear we need to do a better job with
> > > > > > testing.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > All the pieces are in place, so what is needed is to combine it and
> > > > > > create a script that anyone of us as core developers can run to check
> > > > > > for regressions. The same script can be run as part of the kernelci
> > > > > > regression testing.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'd say that *some* pieces are in place. Of course, the more there is,
> > > > > the better.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The more there are tests, the more important it would be they're
> > > > > automated, preferrably without the developer having to run them on his/
> > > > > her own machine.
> > > > 
> > > > From my experience with testing, it's important to have both a core set of
> > > > tests (a.k.a. smoke tests) that can easily be run on developers' machines,
> > > > and extended tests that can be offloaded to a shared testing
> > > > infrastructure (but possibly also run locally if desired).
> > > 
> > > That was my idea as well for the longer term. First step is to do the basic
> > > smoke tests (i.e. run compliance tests, do some (limited) streaming test).
> > > 
> > > There are more extensive (and longer running) tests that can be done, but
> > > that's something to look at later.
> > > 
> > > > > > We have four virtual drivers: vivid, vim2m, vimc and vicodec. The last
> > > > > > one is IMHO not quite good enough yet for testing: it is not fully
> > > > > > compliant to the upcoming stateful codec spec. Work for that is planned
> > > > > > as part of an Outreachy project.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > My idea is to create a script that is maintained as part of v4l-utils
> > > > > > that loads the drivers and runs v4l2-compliance and possibly other tests
> > > > > > against the virtual drivers.
> > > > > 
> > > > > How about spending a little time to pick a suitable framework for running
> > > > > the tests? It could be useful to get more informative reports than just
> > > > > pass / fail.
> > > > 
> > > > We should keep in mind that other tests will be added later, and the test
> > > > framework should make that easy.
> > > 
> > > Since we want to be able to run this on kernelci.org, I think it makes sense
> > > to let the kernelci folks (Hi Ezequiel!) decide this.
> > 
> > KernelCI isn't the only test infrastructure out there, so let's not forget 
> > about the other ones.
> 
> True, but they are putting time and money into this, so they get to choose as
> far as I am concerned :-)
> 

Well, we are also resource-constrained, so my idea for the first iteration
is to pick the simplest yet useful setup. We plan to leverage existing
tests only. Currently xxx-compliance tools are what cover more.

I believe that CI and tests should be independent components.

> If others are interested and willing to put up time and money, they should let
> themselves be known.
> 
> I'm not going to work on such an integration, although I happily accept patches.
> 
> > > As a developer all I need is a script to run smoke tests so I can catch most
> > > regressions (you never catch all).
> > > 
> > > I'm happy to work with them to make any changes to compliance tools and
> > > scripts so they fit better into their test framework.
> > > 
> > > The one key requirement to all this is that you should be able to run these
> > > tests without dependencies to all sorts of external packages/libraries.
> > 
> > v4l-utils already has a set of dependencies, but those are largely manageable. 
> > For v4l2-compliance we'll install libv4l, which depends on libjpeg.
> 
> That's already too much. You can manually build v4l2-compliance with no dependencies
> whatsoever, but we're missing a Makefile target for that. It's been useful for
> embedded systems with poor cross-compile environments.
> 
> It is really very useful to be able to compile those core utilities with no
> external libraries other than glibc. You obviously will loose some functionality
> when you compile it that way.
> 
> These utilities are not like a typical application. I really don't care how many
> libraries are linked in by e.g. qv4l2, xawtv, etc. But for v4l2-ctl, v4l2-compliance,
> cec-ctl/follower/compliance (and probably a few others as well) you want a minimum
> of dependencies so you can run them everywhere, even with the crappiest toolchains
> or cross-compile environments.
> 
> > > > Regarding the test output, many formats exist (see
> > > > https://testanything.org/ and
> > > > https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/
> > > > json_test_results_format.md for instance), we should pick one of the
> > > > leading industry standards (what those standards are still needs to be
> > > > researched  :-)).
> > > > 
> > > > > Do note that for different hardware the tests would be likely different
> > > > > as well although there are classes of devices for which the exact same
> > > > > tests would be applicable.
> > > > 
> > > > See http://git.ideasonboard.com/renesas/vsp-tests.git for an example of
> > > > device-specific tests. I think some of that could be generalized.
> > > > 
> > > > > > It should be simple to use and require very little in the way of
> > > > > > dependencies. Ideally no dependencies other than what is in v4l-utils so
> > > > > > it can easily be run on an embedded system as well.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > For a 64-bit kernel it should run the tests both with 32-bit and 64-bit
> > > > > > applications.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > It should also test with both single and multiplanar modes where
> > > > > > available.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Since vivid emulates CEC as well, it should run CEC tests too.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > As core developers we should have an environment where we can easily
> > > > > > test our patches with this script (I use a VM for that).
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I think maintaining the script (or perhaps scripts) in v4l-utils is best
> > > > > > since that keeps it in sync with the latest kernel and v4l-utils
> > > > > > developments.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Makes sense --- and that can be always changed later on if there's a need
> > > > > to.
> > > > 
> > > > I wonder whether that would be best going forward, especially if we want
> > > > to add more tests. Wouldn't a v4l-tests project make sense ?
> > > 
> > > Let's see what happens. The more repos you have, the harder it becomes to
> > > keep everything in sync with the latest kernel code.
> > 
> > Why is that ? How would a v4l-tests repository make it more difficult ?
> 
> Right now whenever we update the uAPI in the kernel we run 'make sync-with-kernel'
> in v4l-utils to sync it to the latest kernel code. We only do this for this repo,
> and adding a new repo where you have to do that will just complicate matters and
> make it more likely you'll forget. I don't see a good reason to create a new repo
> to store the test code.
> 
> However, I do think we might want to create a new repo to store video test
> sequences (something I expect to see when we start on testing codecs).
> 
> It's IMHO a bad idea to add many MBs of video files to v4l-utils.
> 
> > > My experience is that if you want to have good tests, then writing tests
> > > should be as easy as possible. Keep dependencies at an absolute minimum.
> > 
> > To make it as easy as possible we need to provide high-level APIs, so 
> > dependencies will be unavoidable. I found for instance that Python bindings 
> > were very useful to write tests for DRM/KMS (using libkmsxx), and I plan to 
> > have a look at Python bindings for V4L2.
> 
> Let's just start with simple smoke tests. Python bindings etc. are something
> for the future. Nobody has the time to work on that anyway.
> 

I wouldn't say "nobody" :-) Improving our tests, making it easier
to write them would pair really well with any CI effort.

Researching ways to achieve this (e.g. via dynamic language bindings)
would be time well invested.

If we already agree it's a direction we want to pursue,
maybe we can add it to the list of tasks for volunteers.

> > > Let's be honest, we (well, mainly me) are doing these tests as a side job,
> > > it's not our main focus.
> > 
> > That's a mindset that needs to evolve :-)
> 
> I want to be more aggressive with this: new APIs will need patches to v4l-utils
> as well before they can be accepted, and ideally new tests.
> 

How about we start now by writing an acceptance criteria for changes
to the media subsystem?

Laurent suggested starting this out-of-tree in linuxtv.org,
as a staging document, before we add it to the kernel docs.

I can start the document if you can point me in the right direction.

> And hopefully the kernelci project will lead to some improvements as well.
> 
> > > Anything that makes writing tests more painful is bad and just gets in the
> > > way.
> > 
> > I don't see any disagreement on this. What makes it easy to write tests will 
> > however be much more prone to arguments.
> > 
> 
> Since I'm pretty much the only one who has been writing tests, I'd say that I
> can make a good argument :-)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 	Hans

Re: [RFC] Create test script(s?) for regression testing

[Ezequiel Garcia]

On Tue, 2018-11-06 at 09:37 +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> After the media summit (heavy on test discussions) and the V4L2 event regression
> we just found it is clear we need to do a better job with testing.
> 
> All the pieces are in place, so what is needed is to combine it and create a
> script that anyone of us as core developers can run to check for regressions.
> The same script can be run as part of the kernelci regression testing.
> 
> We have four virtual drivers: vivid, vim2m, vimc and vicodec. The last one
> is IMHO not quite good enough yet for testing: it is not fully compliant to the
> upcoming stateful codec spec. Work for that is planned as part of an Outreachy
> project.
> 
> My idea is to create a script that is maintained as part of v4l-utils that
> loads the drivers and runs v4l2-compliance and possibly other tests against
> the virtual drivers.
> 
> It should be simple to use and require very little in the way of dependencies.
> Ideally no dependencies other than what is in v4l-utils so it can easily be run
> on an embedded system as well.
> 
> For a 64-bit kernel it should run the tests both with 32-bit and 64-bit
> applications.
> 
> It should also test with both single and multiplanar modes where available.
> 
> Since vivid emulates CEC as well, it should run CEC tests too.
> 
> As core developers we should have an environment where we can easily test
> our patches with this script (I use a VM for that).
> 

It's quite trivial to setup a qemu environment for this, e.g. you can
use virtme [1] and set it up so that it runs a script after booting.

> I think maintaining the script (or perhaps scripts) in v4l-utils is best since
> that keeps it in sync with the latest kernel and v4l-utils developments.
> 
> Comments? Ideas?
> 

Sounds great. I think it makes a lot of sense to have a script for CIs
and developers to run.

I guess we can start simple, with just a bash script?

> Regards,
> 
> 	Hans

[1] https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2018/09/18/virtme-the-kernel-developers-best-friend/

Re: [RFC] Create test script(s?) for regression testing

[Hans Verkuil]

A quick status update regarding creating test scripts for regression
testing on kernelci.

I'm also CC-ing Dmitry to give an update on the work fixing syzkaller bugs.

On 11/6/18 9:37 AM, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> After the media summit (heavy on test discussions) and the V4L2 event regression
> we just found it is clear we need to do a better job with testing.
> 
> All the pieces are in place, so what is needed is to combine it and create a
> script that anyone of us as core developers can run to check for regressions.
> The same script can be run as part of the kernelci regression testing.
> 
> We have four virtual drivers: vivid, vim2m, vimc and vicodec. The last one
> is IMHO not quite good enough yet for testing: it is not fully compliant to the
> upcoming stateful codec spec. Work for that is planned as part of an Outreachy
> project.

This Outreachy project started last week, so hopefully we'll have something that
is usable by January.

> 
> My idea is to create a script that is maintained as part of v4l-utils that
> loads the drivers and runs v4l2-compliance and possibly other tests against
> the virtual drivers.
> 
> It should be simple to use and require very little in the way of dependencies.
> Ideally no dependencies other than what is in v4l-utils so it can easily be run
> on an embedded system as well.

I have a simple script:

modprobe vivid no_error_inj=1 n_devs=3 multiplanar=1,2,1
modprobe vim2m
modprobe vimc

v4l2-ctl -d0 -i3 -v width=3840,height=2160,pixelformat=XR24
v4l2-ctl -d1 -o1 -x width=3840,height=2160,pixelformat=XR24
v4l2-ctl -d2 -i3 -v width=3840,height=2160,pixelformat=XR24
v4l2-ctl -d3 -o1 -x width=3840,height=2160,pixelformat=XR24
v4l2-ctl -d4 -i3 -v width=3840,height=2160,pixelformat=XR24

v4l2-compliance -m0 -e4 -s10
v4l2-compliance -m1 -e4 -s10

v4l2-compliance -m3 -e4 -s10
v4l2-compliance -m4 -e4 -s10

But there are too many failures at the moment. Most are fixed, but several
first need to be merged into the 4.20 mainline kernel before they can be
backported to our master branch.

Once they are backported, then there is still one outstanding vivid/vimc failure,
fixed in this series:

https://www.mail-archive.com/linux-media@vger.kernel.org/msg136900.html

That won't make 4.21, but hopefully it will make 4.22.

This is probably the main blocker for the kernelci regression test.

vimc fails at several places, but most are known API issues that we really need
to nail down at some point. Finding time is the issue, but in the meantime I
can probably downgrade the errors to warnings in v4l2-compliance.

In addition, work is ongoing to make the topology configurable with configfs,
and I think we can postpone regression testing with vimc until that is merged
(I hope for 4.22).

> For a 64-bit kernel it should run the tests both with 32-bit and 64-bit
> applications.

Haven't done that yet.

> 
> It should also test with both single and multiplanar modes where available.

That's done (see vivid multiplanar module option in the script).

> 
> Since vivid emulates CEC as well, it should run CEC tests too.

Not done yet.

> 
> As core developers we should have an environment where we can easily test
> our patches with this script (I use a VM for that).
> 
> I think maintaining the script (or perhaps scripts) in v4l-utils is best since
> that keeps it in sync with the latest kernel and v4l-utils developments.
> 
> Comments? Ideas?

Regarding fixing the open syzkaller issues: most is done, but there is one fix
still pending:

https://www.mail-archive.com/linux-media@vger.kernel.org/msg136512.html

It's more complex than I'd like, but I'm not sure if it can be improved.

I will have to take another look when 4.22 opens.

This patch series fixes issues when the filehandle is dupped and different
fds can do actions in parallel that would otherwise not happen.

Regards,

	Hans