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From: shuah <shuah@kernel.org>
To: Brendan Higgins <brendanhiggins@google.com>
Cc: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Frank Rowand <frowand.list@gmail.com>,
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	Sasha Levin <Alexander.Levin@micro soft.com>,
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	Knut Omang <knut.omang@oracle.com>,
	Michael Ellerman <mpe@ellerman.id.au>,
	Petr Mladek <pmladek@suse.com>,
	Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@infradead.org>,
	Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>,
	David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	wfg@linux.intel.com, shuah <shuah@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v18 00/19] kunit: introduce KUnit, the Linux kernel unit testing framework
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 18:49:41 -0600
Message-ID: <544bdfcb-fb35-5008-ec94-8d404a08fd14@kernel.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAFd5g47wji3T9RFmqBwt+jPY0tb83y46oj_ttOq=rTX_N1Ggyg@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/4/19 6:33 PM, Brendan Higgins wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 4:57 PM shuah <shuah@kernel.org> wrote:
>>
>> On 10/4/19 5:52 PM, Brendan Higgins wrote:
>>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 4:30 PM Theodore Y. Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 04, 2019 at 04:47:09PM -0600, shuah wrote:
>>>>>> However, if I encourage arbitrary tests/improvements into my KUnit
>>>>>> branch, it further diverges away from torvalds/master, and is more
>>>>>> likely that there will be a merge conflict or issue that is not related
>>>>>> to the core KUnit changes that will cause the whole thing to be
>>>>>> rejected again in v5.5.
>>>>>
>>>>> The idea is that the new development will happen based on kunit in
>>>>> linux-kselftest next. It will work just fine. As we accepts patches,
>>>>> they will go on top of kunit that is in linux-next now.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see how this would work.  If I add unit tests to ext4, they
>>>> would be in fs/ext4.  And to the extent that I need to add test mocks
>>>> to allow the unit tests to work, they will involve changes to existing
>>>> files in fs/ext4.  I can't put them in the ext4.git tree without
>>>> pulling in the kunit changes into the ext4 git tree.  And if they ext4
>>>> unit tests land in the kunit tree, it would be a receipe for large
>>>> numbers of merge conflicts.
>>>
>>> That's where I was originally coming from.
>>>
>>> So here's a dumb idea: what if we merged KUnit through the ext4 tree?
>>> I imagine that could potentially get very confusing when we go back to
>>> sending changes in through the kselftest tree, but at least it means
>>> that ext4 can use it in the meantime, which means that it at least
>>> gets to be useful to one group of people. Also, since Ted seems pretty
>>> keen on using this, I imagine it is much more likely to produce real
>>> world, immediately useful tests not written by me (I'm not being lazy,
>>> I just think it is better to get other people's experiences other than
>>> my own).
>>>
>>
>> That doesn't make sense does it? The tests might not be limited to
>> fs/ext4. We might have other sub-systems that add tests.
> 
> Well, I have some small isolated examples that I think would probably
> work no matter what, so we can get some usage outside of ext4. Also,
> if we want to limit the number of tests, then we don't expect to get
> much usage outside of ext4 before v5.5 anyway. I just figure, it's
> better to make it work for one person than no one, right?
> 
> In any case, I admit it is not a great idea. I just thought it had
> some interesting advantages over going in through linux-kselftest that
> were worth exploring.
> 
>> So, we will have to work to make linux-next as the base for new
>> development and limit the number of tests to where it will be
>> easier work in this mode for 5.5. We can stage the pull requests
>> so that kunit lands first followed by tests.
> 
> So we are going to encourage maintainers to allow tests in their tree
> based on KUnit on the assumption that KUnit will get merged before
> there changes? That sounds like a huge burden, not just on us, but on
> other maintainers and users.
> 
> I think if we are going to allow tests before KUnit is merged, we
> should have the tests come in through the same tree as KUnit.
> 
>> We have a similar situation with kselftest as well. Sub-systems
>> send tests that depend on their tress separately.
> 
> Well it is different if the maintainer wants to send the test in
> through their tree, right? Otherwise, it won't matter what the state
> of linux-next is and it won't matter when linux-kselftest gets merged.
> Or am I not understanding you?
> 

Let's talk about current state. Right now kunit is in linux-next and
we want to add a few more tests. We will have to coordinate the effort.
Once kunit get into mainline, then the need for this coordination goes
down.

Let's focus on the next few weeks first so we can get this into mainline
in 5.5.

The two of us can chat next week and come up with a plan.

thanks,
-- Shuah
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Thread overview: 47+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-09-23  9:02 Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 01/19] kunit: test: add KUnit test runner core Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 02/19] kunit: test: add test resource management API Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 03/19] kunit: test: add string_stream a std::stream like string builder Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 04/19] kunit: test: add assertion printing library Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 05/19] kunit: test: add the concept of expectations Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 06/19] lib: enable building KUnit in lib/ Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23 15:35   ` Stephen Boyd
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 07/19] kunit: test: add initial tests Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 08/19] objtool: add kunit_try_catch_throw to the noreturn list Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 09/19] kunit: test: add support for test abort Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 10/19] kunit: test: add tests for kunit " Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 11/19] kunit: test: add the concept of assertions Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 12/19] kunit: test: add tests for KUnit managed resources Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 13/19] kunit: tool: add Python wrappers for running KUnit tests Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 14/19] kunit: defconfig: add defconfigs for building " Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 15/19] Documentation: kunit: add documentation for KUnit Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23 15:47   ` Randy Dunlap
2019-09-23 18:06     ` Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23 19:49       ` Randy Dunlap
2019-09-23 21:18         ` shuah
2019-09-23 21:30           ` Randy Dunlap
2019-09-24  0:51   ` Randy Dunlap
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 16/19] MAINTAINERS: add entry for KUnit the unit testing framework Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 17/19] kernel/sysctl-test: Add null pointer test for sysctl.c:proc_dointvec() Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 18/19] MAINTAINERS: add proc sysctl KUnit test to PROC SYSCTL section Brendan Higgins
2019-09-23  9:02 ` [PATCH v18 19/19] kunit: fix failure to build without printk Brendan Higgins
2019-10-04 21:38 ` [PATCH v18 00/19] kunit: introduce KUnit, the Linux kernel unit testing framework Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-10-04 21:42   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-10-04 21:59     ` shuah
2019-10-04 22:27       ` Brendan Higgins
2019-10-04 22:47         ` shuah
2019-10-04 23:10           ` Brendan Higgins
2019-10-04 23:15             ` shuah
2019-10-04 23:29           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-10-04 23:52             ` Brendan Higgins
2019-10-04 23:57               ` shuah
2019-10-05  0:33                 ` Brendan Higgins
2019-10-05  0:49                   ` shuah [this message]
2019-10-05  1:18                     ` Brendan Higgins
2019-10-06 16:54                       ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-10-06 17:18                         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-10-07  8:40                           ` Brendan Higgins
2019-10-07 14:42                             ` shuah
2019-10-07 14:40                           ` Steven Rostedt
2019-10-07 14:57                             ` shuah
2019-10-07  8:20                         ` Brendan Higgins

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