From: "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com>
To: Mimi Zohar <zohar@linux.ibm.com>
Cc: "Ahmad Fatoum" <a.fatoum@pengutronix.de>,
"James Bottomley" <jejb@linux.ibm.com>,
"Jarkko Sakkinen" <jarkko@kernel.org>,
"David Howells" <dhowells@redhat.com>,
kernel@pengutronix.de, "Sumit Garg" <sumit.garg@linaro.org>,
"Pankaj Gupta" <pankaj.gupta@nxp.com>,
"David Gstir" <david@sigma-star.at>,
"Michael Walle" <michael@walle.cc>,
"John Ernberg" <john.ernberg@actia.se>,
"James Morris" <jmorris@namei.org>,
"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>,
"Horia Geantă" <horia.geanta@nxp.com>,
"Herbert Xu" <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>,
"David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
"Jan Luebbe" <j.luebbe@pengutronix.de>,
"Eric Biggers" <ebiggers@kernel.org>,
"Richard Weinberger" <richard@nod.at>,
"Franck LENORMAND" <franck.lenormand@nxp.com>,
"Matthias Schiffer" <matthias.schiffer@ew.tq-group.com>,
keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org,
linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org,
"Pascal Van Leeuwen" <pvanleeuwen@verimatrix.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v10 2/7] KEYS: trusted: allow use of kernel RNG for key material
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 20:30:32 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <YoPpyDjn61AFqcZp@zx2c4.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4fe5564e860eb3093a88528ba1d30364d57723e0.camel@linux.ibm.com>
Hi Mimi,
On Tue, May 17, 2022 at 02:21:08PM -0400, Mimi Zohar wrote:
> On Tue, 2022-05-17 at 19:38 +0200, Jason A. Donenfeld wrote:
> > On Tue, May 17, 2022 at 11:52:55AM -0400, Mimi Zohar wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2022-05-13 at 16:57 +0200, Ahmad Fatoum wrote:
> > > > static int __init init_trusted(void)
> > > > {
> > > > + int (*get_random)(unsigned char *key, size_t key_len);
> > > > int i, ret = 0;
> > > >
> > > > for (i = 0; i < ARRAY_SIZE(trusted_key_sources); i++) {
> > > > @@ -322,6 +333,28 @@ static int __init init_trusted(void)
> > > > strlen(trusted_key_sources[i].name)))
> > > > continue;
> > > >
> > > > + /*
> > > > + * We always support trusted.rng="kernel" and "default" as
> > > > + * well as trusted.rng=$trusted.source if the trust source
> > > > + * defines its own get_random callback.
> > > > + */
> > >
> > > While TEE trusted keys support was upstreamed, there was a lot of
> > > discussion about using kernel RNG. One of the concerns was lack of or
> > > insuffiencent entropy during early boot on embedded devices. This
> > > concern needs to be clearly documented in both Documentation/admin-
> > > guide/kernel-parameters.txt and Documentation/security/keys/trusted-
> > > encrypted.rst.
> >
> > Sounds like FUD. Use `get_random_bytes_wait()`, and you'll be fine.
>
> As per the original discussion, there's also certification requirements
> [1].
As per countless conversations on this mailing list -- which I really
really really hope you will not attempt to drown me in again -- I'm not
too keen on the certification requirements. Let's just leave that
conversation there.
There *is* a cryptographic design reason why you might want certain keys
generated on a TPM rather than in the kernel though: so that the keys
can be marked as unexportable and never leave the hardware. In that case
-- I assume -- the kernel just operates on a handle to the key, rather
than possessing the key material itself. And this is probably a good
thing. (On the other hand, people who think the TPM might be backdoored
may prefer the kernel's open source RNG, which in theory is in a
position to aggregate entropy from many sources, so that one being
backdoored isn't a problem. So maybe that's the purpose of having this
switch?)
So to the extent that this driver (I haven't looked deeply at it) is
doing the thing where a TPM generates the key and just returns a
handle to it, that sounds good. But if actually you're implementing some
wrapper around a hardware rng, it'd be convenient if there was instead a
hw_random driver for this, so it can be one of the many sources that the
kernel rng aggregates.
Apologies in advance if I've missed the mark here; I'm not very familiar
with this thread or what it's driving at. If the simple question was
just "is get_random_bytes_wait() good to use?" the answer is just "yes"
and I can disappear and stop confusing things. :)
Jason
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-05-17 18:30 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 30+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-05-13 14:56 [PATCH v10 0/7] KEYS: trusted: Introduce support for NXP CAAM-based trusted keys Ahmad Fatoum
2022-05-13 14:56 ` [PATCH v10 1/7] KEYS: trusted: allow use of TEE as backend without TCG_TPM support Ahmad Fatoum
2022-05-13 14:57 ` [PATCH v10 2/7] KEYS: trusted: allow use of kernel RNG for key material Ahmad Fatoum
2022-05-17 15:52 ` Mimi Zohar
2022-05-17 16:25 ` Ahmad Fatoum
2022-05-17 17:40 ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-05-17 17:38 ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-05-17 18:21 ` Mimi Zohar
2022-05-17 18:30 ` Jason A. Donenfeld [this message]
2022-05-17 19:49 ` Mimi Zohar
2022-05-18 4:31 ` Ahmad Fatoum
2022-05-17 17:27 ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-05-17 17:52 ` Ahmad Fatoum
2022-05-17 18:00 ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-05-17 18:27 ` Ahmad Fatoum
2022-05-17 18:10 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2022-05-17 18:20 ` Ahmad Fatoum
2022-05-17 18:20 ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-05-13 14:57 ` [PATCH v10 3/7] crypto: caam - determine whether CAAM supports blob encap/decap Ahmad Fatoum
2022-05-17 10:03 ` [EXT] " Pankaj Gupta
2022-05-13 14:57 ` [PATCH v10 4/7] crypto: caam - add in-kernel interface for blob generator Ahmad Fatoum
2022-05-13 14:57 ` [PATCH v10 5/7] KEYS: trusted: Introduce support for NXP CAAM-based trusted keys Ahmad Fatoum
2022-05-13 14:57 ` [PATCH v10 6/7] doc: trusted-encrypted: describe new CAAM trust source Ahmad Fatoum
2022-05-13 14:57 ` [PATCH v10 7/7] MAINTAINERS: add KEYS-TRUSTED-CAAM Ahmad Fatoum
2022-05-16 18:36 ` [PATCH v10 0/7] KEYS: trusted: Introduce support for NXP CAAM-based trusted keys Jarkko Sakkinen
2022-05-17 12:44 ` Ahmad Fatoum
2022-05-18 1:08 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2022-05-18 4:36 ` Ahmad Fatoum
2022-05-18 14:58 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2022-05-19 23:41 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
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