[PATCH] Revert "tty: serial: samsung_tty: build it for any platform"

[PATCH] Revert "tty: serial: samsung_tty: build it for any platform"

[Geert Uytterhoeven]

This reverts commit 175b558d0efb8b4f33aa7bd2c1b5389b912d3019.

When the user configures a kernel without support for Samsung SoCs, it
makes no sense to ask the user about enabling "Samsung SoC serial
support", as Samsung serial ports can only be found on Samsung SoCs.

Signed-off-by: Geert Uytterhoeven <geert+renesas@glider.be>
---
 drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig | 1 +
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)

diff --git a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
index 880b962015302dca..932ad51099deae7d 100644
--- a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
+++ b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
@@ -237,6 +237,7 @@ config SERIAL_CLPS711X_CONSOLE
 
 config SERIAL_SAMSUNG
 	tristate "Samsung SoC serial support"
+	depends on PLAT_SAMSUNG || ARCH_EXYNOS || COMPILE_TEST
 	select SERIAL_CORE
 	help
 	  Support for the on-chip UARTs on the Samsung S3C24XX series CPUs,
-- 
2.17.1

Re: [PATCH] Revert "tty: serial: samsung_tty: build it for any platform"

[Greg Kroah-Hartman]

On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 11:23:01AM +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> This reverts commit 175b558d0efb8b4f33aa7bd2c1b5389b912d3019.
> 
> When the user configures a kernel without support for Samsung SoCs, it
> makes no sense to ask the user about enabling "Samsung SoC serial
> support", as Samsung serial ports can only be found on Samsung SoCs.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Geert Uytterhoeven <geert+renesas@glider.be>
> ---
>  drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig | 1 +
>  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)
> 
> diff --git a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> index 880b962015302dca..932ad51099deae7d 100644
> --- a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> +++ b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> @@ -237,6 +237,7 @@ config SERIAL_CLPS711X_CONSOLE
>  
>  config SERIAL_SAMSUNG
>  	tristate "Samsung SoC serial support"
> +	depends on PLAT_SAMSUNG || ARCH_EXYNOS || COMPILE_TEST
>  	select SERIAL_CORE
>  	help
>  	  Support for the on-chip UARTs on the Samsung S3C24XX series CPUs,

{sigh}

No, I don't want this.  My "goal" is to be able to get rid of all of the
crazy "PLAT_*" symbols as they make it impossible to build a single
kernel that supports multiple ARM64 systems.

As an example of just such a system, see the 5.4 tree here:
	https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/common/+/refs/heads/android-5.4
it is now building and booting on multiple SoCs.

But yes, it still does have to enable some PLAT_* config options, but
the goal is to not have to do that eventually.

There is no reason that we need vendor-specific config options just to
lump random drivers into, like serial drivers.  If the hardware is not
present, the driver will just not bind to the hardware, and all is fine.

Just like x86, we don't have this issue there, and ARM64 should also not
have this.

Sorry for delay in writing this back to the original thread where you
objected to the original patch, it's still in my review queue along with
a ton of other serial patches.

thanks,

greg k-h

Re: [PATCH] Revert "tty: serial: samsung_tty: build it for any platform"

[Greg Kroah-Hartman]

On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 11:36:52AM +0100, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 11:23:01AM +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> > This reverts commit 175b558d0efb8b4f33aa7bd2c1b5389b912d3019.
> > 
> > When the user configures a kernel without support for Samsung SoCs, it
> > makes no sense to ask the user about enabling "Samsung SoC serial
> > support", as Samsung serial ports can only be found on Samsung SoCs.
> > 
> > Signed-off-by: Geert Uytterhoeven <geert+renesas@glider.be>
> > ---
> >  drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig | 1 +
> >  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)
> > 
> > diff --git a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> > index 880b962015302dca..932ad51099deae7d 100644
> > --- a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> > +++ b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> > @@ -237,6 +237,7 @@ config SERIAL_CLPS711X_CONSOLE
> >  
> >  config SERIAL_SAMSUNG
> >  	tristate "Samsung SoC serial support"
> > +	depends on PLAT_SAMSUNG || ARCH_EXYNOS || COMPILE_TEST
> >  	select SERIAL_CORE
> >  	help
> >  	  Support for the on-chip UARTs on the Samsung S3C24XX series CPUs,
> 
> {sigh}
> 
> No, I don't want this.  My "goal" is to be able to get rid of all of the
> crazy "PLAT_*" symbols as they make it impossible to build a single
> kernel that supports multiple ARM64 systems.
> 
> As an example of just such a system, see the 5.4 tree here:
> 	https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/common/+/refs/heads/android-5.4
> it is now building and booting on multiple SoCs.
> 
> But yes, it still does have to enable some PLAT_* config options, but
> the goal is to not have to do that eventually.
> 
> There is no reason that we need vendor-specific config options just to
> lump random drivers into, like serial drivers.  If the hardware is not
> present, the driver will just not bind to the hardware, and all is fine.
> 
> Just like x86, we don't have this issue there, and ARM64 should also not
> have this.
> 
> Sorry for delay in writing this back to the original thread where you
> objected to the original patch, it's still in my review queue along with
> a ton of other serial patches.

Here's another good example of this happening, it's not just me working
toward this goal:
	https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20200305103228.9686-2-zhang.lyra@gmail.com/

Re: [PATCH] Revert "tty: serial: samsung_tty: build it for any platform"

[Geert Uytterhoeven]

Hi Greg,

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 1:29 PM Greg Kroah-Hartman
<gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 11:23:01AM +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> > This reverts commit 175b558d0efb8b4f33aa7bd2c1b5389b912d3019.
> >
> > When the user configures a kernel without support for Samsung SoCs, it
> > makes no sense to ask the user about enabling "Samsung SoC serial
> > support", as Samsung serial ports can only be found on Samsung SoCs.
> >
> > Signed-off-by: Geert Uytterhoeven <geert+renesas@glider.be>
> > ---
> >  drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig | 1 +
> >  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)
> >
> > diff --git a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> > index 880b962015302dca..932ad51099deae7d 100644
> > --- a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> > +++ b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> > @@ -237,6 +237,7 @@ config SERIAL_CLPS711X_CONSOLE
> >
> >  config SERIAL_SAMSUNG
> >       tristate "Samsung SoC serial support"
> > +     depends on PLAT_SAMSUNG || ARCH_EXYNOS || COMPILE_TEST
> >       select SERIAL_CORE
> >       help
> >         Support for the on-chip UARTs on the Samsung S3C24XX series CPUs,
>
> {sigh}

Exactly my feeling.

> No, I don't want this.  My "goal" is to be able to get rid of all of the
> crazy "PLAT_*" symbols as they make it impossible to build a single
> kernel that supports multiple ARM64 systems.

This dependency does not make it impossible to build a single
kernel that supports multiple ARM64 systems.

Those "PLAT_*" symbols are not crazy.  They are needed to configure a
kernel for your specific hardware, leaving out support you don't need.
Not everyone has the hardware resources to run an allyesconfig kernel.

> As an example of just such a system, see the 5.4 tree here:
>         https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/common/+/refs/heads/android-5.4
> it is now building and booting on multiple SoCs.

arm/multi_v7_defconfig and arm64/defconfig kernels are already booting
on multiple SoCs in upstream, and have done so for years.

> But yes, it still does have to enable some PLAT_* config options, but
> the goal is to not have to do that eventually.

Whether the dependency is present or not does not change this.

> There is no reason that we need vendor-specific config options just to
> lump random drivers into, like serial drivers.  If the hardware is not
> present, the driver will just not bind to the hardware, and all is fine.

Not having the dependency means you will ask the user useless questions
when configuring his kernel.
My goal is to make kernel configuration easier, not more difficult.

> Just like x86, we don't have this issue there, and ARM64 should also not
> have this.

No, because x86 is considered the golden standard ;-)

Dropping those dependencies is similar to always having a simple PCI
core without any host PCI bridges, dropping "depends on PCI" from all
PCI drivers, and building an all*config kernel for your old i386 that
predates PCI (you can replace PCI by ACPI to modernize the example).

What am I missing?!?

Gr{oetje,eeting}s,

                        Geert


--
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org

In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
                                -- Linus Torvalds

Re: [PATCH] Revert "tty: serial: samsung_tty: build it for any platform"

[Greg Kroah-Hartman]

On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 01:53:01PM +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> Hi Greg,
> 
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 1:29 PM Greg Kroah-Hartman
> <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 11:23:01AM +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> > > This reverts commit 175b558d0efb8b4f33aa7bd2c1b5389b912d3019.
> > >
> > > When the user configures a kernel without support for Samsung SoCs, it
> > > makes no sense to ask the user about enabling "Samsung SoC serial
> > > support", as Samsung serial ports can only be found on Samsung SoCs.
> > >
> > > Signed-off-by: Geert Uytterhoeven <geert+renesas@glider.be>
> > > ---
> > >  drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig | 1 +
> > >  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)
> > >
> > > diff --git a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> > > index 880b962015302dca..932ad51099deae7d 100644
> > > --- a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> > > +++ b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> > > @@ -237,6 +237,7 @@ config SERIAL_CLPS711X_CONSOLE
> > >
> > >  config SERIAL_SAMSUNG
> > >       tristate "Samsung SoC serial support"
> > > +     depends on PLAT_SAMSUNG || ARCH_EXYNOS || COMPILE_TEST
> > >       select SERIAL_CORE
> > >       help
> > >         Support for the on-chip UARTs on the Samsung S3C24XX series CPUs,
> >
> > {sigh}
> 
> Exactly my feeling.
> 
> > No, I don't want this.  My "goal" is to be able to get rid of all of the
> > crazy "PLAT_*" symbols as they make it impossible to build a single
> > kernel that supports multiple ARM64 systems.
> 
> This dependency does not make it impossible to build a single
> kernel that supports multiple ARM64 systems.
> 
> Those "PLAT_*" symbols are not crazy.  They are needed to configure a
> kernel for your specific hardware, leaving out support you don't need.
> Not everyone has the hardware resources to run an allyesconfig kernel.
> 
> > As an example of just such a system, see the 5.4 tree here:
> >         https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/common/+/refs/heads/android-5.4
> > it is now building and booting on multiple SoCs.
> 
> arm/multi_v7_defconfig and arm64/defconfig kernels are already booting
> on multiple SoCs in upstream, and have done so for years.
> 
> > But yes, it still does have to enable some PLAT_* config options, but
> > the goal is to not have to do that eventually.
> 
> Whether the dependency is present or not does not change this.
> 
> > There is no reason that we need vendor-specific config options just to
> > lump random drivers into, like serial drivers.  If the hardware is not
> > present, the driver will just not bind to the hardware, and all is fine.
> 
> Not having the dependency means you will ask the user useless questions
> when configuring his kernel.
> My goal is to make kernel configuration easier, not more difficult.
> 
> > Just like x86, we don't have this issue there, and ARM64 should also not
> > have this.
> 
> No, because x86 is considered the golden standard ;-)
> 
> Dropping those dependencies is similar to always having a simple PCI
> core without any host PCI bridges, dropping "depends on PCI" from all
> PCI drivers, and building an all*config kernel for your old i386 that
> predates PCI (you can replace PCI by ACPI to modernize the example).
> 
> What am I missing?!?

"depends on PCI" describes the hardware bus that a driver depends on.

PLAT_FOO is just trying to somehow classify that this type of driver
only shows up on this vendor's devices.  It is not defining the hardware
at all.  We try to always describe functionality of hardware, not try to
declare specific vendor's hardware choices, right?

PLAT_FOO is interesting, but given that a specific driver is really not
tied to that platform logically, only by virtue that no one else might
not happen to have that hardware, it seems odd to have that.

Yes, asking lots of questions is tough, but we passed that problem so
long ago.  Are we now trying to add PLAT_FOO entries to all hardware
drivers in order to make this type of selection easier?  I thought we
were just doing that by providing defconfig files to make the initial
selection saner.

thanks,

greg k-h

Re: [PATCH] Revert "tty: serial: samsung_tty: build it for any platform"

[Geert Uytterhoeven]

Hi Greg,

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 2:03 PM Greg Kroah-Hartman
<gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 01:53:01PM +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 1:29 PM Greg Kroah-Hartman
> > <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 11:23:01AM +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> > > > This reverts commit 175b558d0efb8b4f33aa7bd2c1b5389b912d3019.
> > > >
> > > > When the user configures a kernel without support for Samsung SoCs, it
> > > > makes no sense to ask the user about enabling "Samsung SoC serial
> > > > support", as Samsung serial ports can only be found on Samsung SoCs.
> > > >
> > > > Signed-off-by: Geert Uytterhoeven <geert+renesas@glider.be>
> > > > ---
> > > >  drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig | 1 +
> > > >  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)
> > > >
> > > > diff --git a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> > > > index 880b962015302dca..932ad51099deae7d 100644
> > > > --- a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> > > > +++ b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> > > > @@ -237,6 +237,7 @@ config SERIAL_CLPS711X_CONSOLE
> > > >
> > > >  config SERIAL_SAMSUNG
> > > >       tristate "Samsung SoC serial support"
> > > > +     depends on PLAT_SAMSUNG || ARCH_EXYNOS || COMPILE_TEST
> > > >       select SERIAL_CORE
> > > >       help
> > > >         Support for the on-chip UARTs on the Samsung S3C24XX series CPUs,
> > >
> > > {sigh}
> >
> > Exactly my feeling.
> >
> > > No, I don't want this.  My "goal" is to be able to get rid of all of the
> > > crazy "PLAT_*" symbols as they make it impossible to build a single
> > > kernel that supports multiple ARM64 systems.
> >
> > This dependency does not make it impossible to build a single
> > kernel that supports multiple ARM64 systems.
> >
> > Those "PLAT_*" symbols are not crazy.  They are needed to configure a
> > kernel for your specific hardware, leaving out support you don't need.
> > Not everyone has the hardware resources to run an allyesconfig kernel.
> >
> > > As an example of just such a system, see the 5.4 tree here:
> > >         https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/common/+/refs/heads/android-5.4
> > > it is now building and booting on multiple SoCs.
> >
> > arm/multi_v7_defconfig and arm64/defconfig kernels are already booting
> > on multiple SoCs in upstream, and have done so for years.
> >
> > > But yes, it still does have to enable some PLAT_* config options, but
> > > the goal is to not have to do that eventually.
> >
> > Whether the dependency is present or not does not change this.
> >
> > > There is no reason that we need vendor-specific config options just to
> > > lump random drivers into, like serial drivers.  If the hardware is not
> > > present, the driver will just not bind to the hardware, and all is fine.
> >
> > Not having the dependency means you will ask the user useless questions
> > when configuring his kernel.
> > My goal is to make kernel configuration easier, not more difficult.
> >
> > > Just like x86, we don't have this issue there, and ARM64 should also not
> > > have this.
> >
> > No, because x86 is considered the golden standard ;-)
> >
> > Dropping those dependencies is similar to always having a simple PCI
> > core without any host PCI bridges, dropping "depends on PCI" from all
> > PCI drivers, and building an all*config kernel for your old i386 that
> > predates PCI (you can replace PCI by ACPI to modernize the example).
> >
> > What am I missing?!?
>
> "depends on PCI" describes the hardware bus that a driver depends on.

Yes.

> PLAT_FOO is just trying to somehow classify that this type of driver
> only shows up on this vendor's devices.  It is not defining the hardware
> at all.  We try to always describe functionality of hardware, not try to
> declare specific vendor's hardware choices, right?

DT-based drivers do not bind to a hardware-specific bus, and thus there
is no config symbol for a hardware-specific bus they can depend on.
Still, there are hardware classes, based on SoC vendors and SoC families.
Hence PLAT_FOO describes the latter.

> PLAT_FOO is interesting, but given that a specific driver is really not
> tied to that platform logically, only by virtue that no one else might
> not happen to have that hardware, it seems odd to have that.

There exist IP cores that are present on either PCI and non-PCI hardware.
With hardware-specific bus drivers, drivers for these need to implement
both a pci_driver and <some_other>_driver.  And they depend on PCI
|| <OTHER>.
With DT and ACPI, and device properties, a single platform_driver
needs to be written, just the matching is done differently. And there is
no "hard" (no "else the driver doesn't link") need for a hardware-specific
config-symbol dependency.  But it's still good to have one.

> Yes, asking lots of questions is tough, but we passed that problem so
> long ago.  Are we now trying to add PLAT_FOO entries to all hardware
> drivers in order to make this type of selection easier?  I thought we
> were just doing that by providing defconfig files to make the initial
> selection saner.

Defconfigs were the previous step, from an evolutionary point of view.
Arm64 has a single defconfig.  All dependencies must be expressed in
Kconfig.  I can take arm64/defconfig, remove support for other SoC families,
and I'll have a good kernel for my hardware, without bagage I don't need.
Without these dependencies, I have to remove lots and lots of drivers
I won't need.

If you want to compile drivers for hardware that cannot be present, use
COMPILE_TEST=y.

Gr{oetje,eeting}s,

                        Geert

-- 
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org

In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
                                -- Linus Torvalds

Re: [PATCH] Revert "tty: serial: samsung_tty: build it for any platform"

[Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz]

On 3/6/20 2:03 PM, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 01:53:01PM +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 1:29 PM Greg Kroah-Hartman
>> <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 11:23:01AM +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
>>>> This reverts commit 175b558d0efb8b4f33aa7bd2c1b5389b912d3019.
>>>>
>>>> When the user configures a kernel without support for Samsung SoCs, it
>>>> makes no sense to ask the user about enabling "Samsung SoC serial
>>>> support", as Samsung serial ports can only be found on Samsung SoCs.
>>>>
>>>> Signed-off-by: Geert Uytterhoeven <geert+renesas@glider.be>

Acked-by: Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz <b.zolnierkie@samsung.com>

The original commit has been merged so quickly after being posted
that people had no time to review/NAK it properly:

commit 175b558d0efb8b4f33aa7bd2c1b5389b912d3019
Author:     Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>
AuthorDate: Thu Feb 20 11:26:27 2020 +0100
Commit:     Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>
CommitDate: Thu Feb 20 13:46:19 2020 +0100

Also I have no idea why Krzysztof has posted his "Reviewed-by:" tag
for the original commit. 

>>>> ---
>>>>  drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig | 1 +
>>>>  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)
>>>>
>>>> diff --git a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
>>>> index 880b962015302dca..932ad51099deae7d 100644
>>>> --- a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
>>>> +++ b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
>>>> @@ -237,6 +237,7 @@ config SERIAL_CLPS711X_CONSOLE
>>>>
>>>>  config SERIAL_SAMSUNG
>>>>       tristate "Samsung SoC serial support"
>>>> +     depends on PLAT_SAMSUNG || ARCH_EXYNOS || COMPILE_TEST
>>>>       select SERIAL_CORE
>>>>       help
>>>>         Support for the on-chip UARTs on the Samsung S3C24XX series CPUs,
>>>
>>> {sigh}
>>
>> Exactly my feeling.
>>
>>> No, I don't want this.  My "goal" is to be able to get rid of all of the
>>> crazy "PLAT_*" symbols as they make it impossible to build a single
>>> kernel that supports multiple ARM64 systems.

No, they don't. Geert has explained this to you twice (however
for some reason you seem to keep on ignoring this).

Also on ARM64 there is no PLAT_SAMSUNG defined at all!

In case of PLAT_SAMSUNG usage in SERIAL_SAMSUNG dependencies
it is just a shortcut for saying:

	depends on ARCH_S3C24XX || ARCH_S3C64XX || ARCH_S5PV210 || \
		   ARCH_EXYNOS || COMPILE_TEST

and we can just use ARCH_* dependencies as well (PLAT_SAMSUNG
is used only because it is shorter).

ARCH_* dependencies on ARM platforms are used to describe SoC
families and are in no conflict of supporting multi-platforms
images (somer SoC families don't support such images but for
other reasons).

On ARM64 building the single kernel that supports multiple ARM64
systems is the default and all Samsung SoCs are included in such
image (as only some Samsung Exynos SoCs are 64-bit capable only
ARCH_EXYNOS is relevant on ARM64).

Also ARM multi-platform support is similar to other archs (like
mips or powerpc).

>> This dependency does not make it impossible to build a single
>> kernel that supports multiple ARM64 systems.
>>
>> Those "PLAT_*" symbols are not crazy.  They are needed to configure a
>> kernel for your specific hardware, leaving out support you don't need.
>> Not everyone has the hardware resources to run an allyesconfig kernel.
>>
>>> As an example of just such a system, see the 5.4 tree here:
>>>         https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/common/+/refs/heads/android-5.4
>>> it is now building and booting on multiple SoCs.
>>
>> arm/multi_v7_defconfig and arm64/defconfig kernels are already booting
>> on multiple SoCs in upstream, and have done so for years.
>>
>>> But yes, it still does have to enable some PLAT_* config options, but
>>> the goal is to not have to do that eventually.
>>
>> Whether the dependency is present or not does not change this.
>>
>>> There is no reason that we need vendor-specific config options just to
>>> lump random drivers into, like serial drivers.  If the hardware is not
>>> present, the driver will just not bind to the hardware, and all is fine.
>>
>> Not having the dependency means you will ask the user useless questions
>> when configuring his kernel.
>> My goal is to make kernel configuration easier, not more difficult.
>>
>>> Just like x86, we don't have this issue there, and ARM64 should also not
>>> have this.

On x86 we have BIOS, ACPI and other forms of hardware abstractions
that we don't have on ARM64.

Please also note that we have things like "depends on X86_32" or
"depends on ACPI" also on x86.

>> No, because x86 is considered the golden standard ;-)
>>
>> Dropping those dependencies is similar to always having a simple PCI
>> core without any host PCI bridges, dropping "depends on PCI" from all
>> PCI drivers, and building an all*config kernel for your old i386 that
>> predates PCI (you can replace PCI by ACPI to modernize the example).
>>
>> What am I missing?!?
> 
> "depends on PCI" describes the hardware bus that a driver depends on.
> 
> PLAT_FOO is just trying to somehow classify that this type of driver
> only shows up on this vendor's devices.  It is not defining the hardware

Like described above: PLAT_SAMSUNG is just a way to share the common
architecture code between different Samsung SoCs families inside
arch/arm/*:

arch/arm/plat-samsung/Kconfig:

...
config PLAT_SAMSUNG
	bool
	depends on PLAT_S3C24XX || ARCH_S3C64XX || ARCH_EXYNOS || ARCH_S5PV210
	default y
	select GENERIC_IRQ_CHIP
	select NO_IOPORT_MAP
	help
	  Base platform code for all Samsung SoC based systems
...

while PLAT_S3C24XX comes from arch/arm/mach-s3c24xx/Kconfig:

...
if ARCH_S3C24XX

config PLAT_S3C24XX
	def_bool y
	select GPIOLIB
	select NO_IOPORT_MAP
	select S3C_DEV_NAND
	select IRQ_DOMAIN
	select COMMON_CLK
	help
	  Base platform code for any Samsung S3C24XX device
...

We can use ARCH_* symbols for device drivers dependencies directly,
PLAT_SAMSUNG is used only because it is shorter.

> at all.  We try to always describe functionality of hardware, not try to
> declare specific vendor's hardware choices, right?
> 
> PLAT_FOO is interesting, but given that a specific driver is really not
> tied to that platform logically, only by virtue that no one else might
> not happen to have that hardware, it seems odd to have that.

We don't expect Samsung Serial hardware to start appearing on non
ARM/Samsung SoCs any day soon (if ever).

Currently your changes make i.e. x86_64 configs to ask about its support,
(people doing "make oldconfig" on linux-next are seeing it).

> Yes, asking lots of questions is tough, but we passed that problem so
> long ago.  Are we now trying to add PLAT_FOO entries to all hardware

Yes, we have passed that problem with the usage of COMPILE_TEST config
option and your change defeats its whole purpose.

I've asked you in the original commit mail thread whether you are
planning to remove COMPILE_TEST and you seem to avoid answering my
question.

> drivers in order to make this type of selection easier?  I thought we
> were just doing that by providing defconfig files to make the initial
> selection saner.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> greg k-h 
Best regards,
--
Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
Samsung R&D Institute Poland
Samsung Electronics

Re: [PATCH] Revert "tty: serial: samsung_tty: build it for any platform"

[Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz]

On 3/6/20 2:03 PM, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 01:53:01PM +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 1:29 PM Greg Kroah-Hartman
>> <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 11:23:01AM +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
>>>> This reverts commit 175b558d0efb8b4f33aa7bd2c1b5389b912d3019.
>>>>
>>>> When the user configures a kernel without support for Samsung SoCs, it
>>>> makes no sense to ask the user about enabling "Samsung SoC serial
>>>> support", as Samsung serial ports can only be found on Samsung SoCs.
>>>>
>>>> Signed-off-by: Geert Uytterhoeven <geert+renesas@glider.be>
>>>> ---
>>>>  drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig | 1 +
>>>>  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)
>>>>
>>>> diff --git a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
>>>> index 880b962015302dca..932ad51099deae7d 100644
>>>> --- a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
>>>> +++ b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
>>>> @@ -237,6 +237,7 @@ config SERIAL_CLPS711X_CONSOLE
>>>>
>>>>  config SERIAL_SAMSUNG
>>>>       tristate "Samsung SoC serial support"
>>>> +     depends on PLAT_SAMSUNG || ARCH_EXYNOS || COMPILE_TEST
>>>>       select SERIAL_CORE
>>>>       help
>>>>         Support for the on-chip UARTs on the Samsung S3C24XX series CPUs,
>>>
>>> {sigh}

[...]

>> Dropping those dependencies is similar to always having a simple PCI
>> core without any host PCI bridges, dropping "depends on PCI" from all
>> PCI drivers, and building an all*config kernel for your old i386 that
>> predates PCI (you can replace PCI by ACPI to modernize the example).
>>
>> What am I missing?!?
> 
> "depends on PCI" describes the hardware bus that a driver depends on.
> 
> PLAT_FOO is just trying to somehow classify that this type of driver
> only shows up on this vendor's devices.  It is not defining the hardware
> at all.  We try to always describe functionality of hardware, not try to
> declare specific vendor's hardware choices, right?
> 
> PLAT_FOO is interesting, but given that a specific driver is really not
> tied to that platform logically, only by virtue that no one else might
> not happen to have that hardware, it seems odd to have that.

Your particular patch is not about removing PLAT_FOO dependency but
about removing actual architecture/platform specific dependencies.

Please look at your patch and note that in addition to removing
PLAT_SAMSUNG dependency (even ignoring for a moment that it can be
replaced by a few ARCH_* dependencies and PLAT_SAMSUNG was used only
because it was shorter) has also removed ARCH_EXYNOS dependency.

How do you explain this?

> Yes, asking lots of questions is tough, but we passed that problem so
> long ago.  Are we now trying to add PLAT_FOO entries to all hardware
> drivers in order to make this type of selection easier?  I thought we

We are not going to add anything because for the vast majority of
the drivers the needed entries are already there:

$ find drivers/ -name 'Kconfig*'|xargs cat|grep "depends on"|grep ARCH_|wc -l
1310

> were just doing that by providing defconfig files to make the initial
> selection saner.

Best regards,
--
Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
Samsung R&D Institute Poland
Samsung Electronics

Re: [PATCH] Revert "tty: serial: samsung_tty: build it for any platform"

[Krzysztof Kozlowski]

.On Fri, 6 Mar 2020 at 11:23, Geert Uytterhoeven
<geert+renesas@glider.be> wrote:
>
> This reverts commit 175b558d0efb8b4f33aa7bd2c1b5389b912d3019.
>
> When the user configures a kernel without support for Samsung SoCs, it
> makes no sense to ask the user about enabling "Samsung SoC serial
> support", as Samsung serial ports can only be found on Samsung SoCs.
>
> Signed-off-by: Geert Uytterhoeven <geert+renesas@glider.be>
> ---
>  drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig | 1 +
>  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)
>

Discussion about removal and then re-adding of PLAT_SAMSUNG and
ARCH_EXYNOS dependencies remind me [1]: "[RFC] Input: tm2-touchkey -
add hardware dependency".

In both cases the driver is clearly only for Samsung SoC or even for
particular device, although one could argue that touchscreen could be
reused while re-usage of serial IP of SoC is highly unlikely. My
understanding, maybe not correct, of "depends on" syntax is a kernel
source code, building or running dependency. I do not see it as a
hardware dependency. Although Samsung S3C/Exynos serial driver will
not exist outside of Samsung SoC, there is no kernel dependency.
Unless I missed something...

I understand and agree with concerns mentioned in [1] and in the
thread here, that removal of this "depends on" makes life of
distributions and generic users more difficult. To solve this problem
I was thinking about adding weaker type of dependency. A hint about
hardware dependency. Something like the "imply" is for "select". This
did not happen, therefore I still stand on my understanding of
"depends on" thus I gave positive feedback to Greg's patch.

It is a pity though that Greg's patch was applied so fast while
discussion was still on going...

[1] https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/9695769/

Best regards,
Krzysztof

Re: [PATCH] Revert "tty: serial: samsung_tty: build it for any platform"

[Geert Uytterhoeven]

Hi Krzysztof,

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 7:09 PM Krzysztof Kozlowski <krzk@kernel.org> wrote:
> .On Fri, 6 Mar 2020 at 11:23, Geert Uytterhoeven
> <geert+renesas@glider.be> wrote:
> > This reverts commit 175b558d0efb8b4f33aa7bd2c1b5389b912d3019.
> >
> > When the user configures a kernel without support for Samsung SoCs, it
> > makes no sense to ask the user about enabling "Samsung SoC serial
> > support", as Samsung serial ports can only be found on Samsung SoCs.
> >
> > Signed-off-by: Geert Uytterhoeven <geert+renesas@glider.be>
> > ---
> >  drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig | 1 +
> >  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)
> >
>
> Discussion about removal and then re-adding of PLAT_SAMSUNG and
> ARCH_EXYNOS dependencies remind me [1]: "[RFC] Input: tm2-touchkey -
> add hardware dependency".
>
> In both cases the driver is clearly only for Samsung SoC or even for
> particular device, although one could argue that touchscreen could be
> reused while re-usage of serial IP of SoC is highly unlikely. My
> understanding, maybe not correct, of "depends on" syntax is a kernel
> source code, building or running dependency. I do not see it as a
> hardware dependency. Although Samsung S3C/Exynos serial driver will
> not exist outside of Samsung SoC, there is no kernel dependency.
> Unless I missed something...

The touchscreen is something different: I can easily mount that type of
touchscreen on my own board, while I cannot integrate a Samsung serial
port on my board, unless I'm using a Samsung SoC.

> I understand and agree with concerns mentioned in [1] and in the
> thread here, that removal of this "depends on" makes life of
> distributions and generic users more difficult. To solve this problem
> I was thinking about adding weaker type of dependency. A hint about
> hardware dependency. Something like the "imply" is for "select". This
> did not happen, therefore I still stand on my understanding of
> "depends on" thus I gave positive feedback to Greg's patch.

A weak dependency can be expressed using "|| COMPILE_TESTING".

<(not so) wild idea>
During the past few days, I've been giving this more thought.
And I realized we might as well get rid of pci_driver, and just have
platform_drivers that match against "pci<VendorID>,<DeviceID>" (yes,
this is what real Open Firmware had in the compatible property, cfr.
http://users.telenet.be/geertu/Linux/PPC/pci/ethernetAT4/).
That way there would be no longer a build dependency on CONFIG_PCI, and
we can drop all "depends on PCI" from driver Kconfig symbols.
But would dropping that dependency be welcomed? Perhaps, as "everybody"
uses PCI.

Now repeat the exercise for Zorro, TURBOchannel, NuBus, Sbus, PCMCIA,
..., and wait for the outcry from Linus suddenly seeing lots of
questions about support for hardware he can't possibly have in his
machine...
</(not so) wild idea>

Gr{oetje,eeting}s,

                        Geert

-- 
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org

In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
                                -- Linus Torvalds

Re: [PATCH] Revert "tty: serial: samsung_tty: build it for any platform"

[Greg Kroah-Hartman]

On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 11:23:01AM +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> This reverts commit 175b558d0efb8b4f33aa7bd2c1b5389b912d3019.
> 
> When the user configures a kernel without support for Samsung SoCs, it
> makes no sense to ask the user about enabling "Samsung SoC serial
> support", as Samsung serial ports can only be found on Samsung SoCs.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Geert Uytterhoeven <geert+renesas@glider.be>
> ---
>  drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig | 1 +
>  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)
> 
> diff --git a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> index 880b962015302dca..932ad51099deae7d 100644
> --- a/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> +++ b/drivers/tty/serial/Kconfig
> @@ -237,6 +237,7 @@ config SERIAL_CLPS711X_CONSOLE
>  
>  config SERIAL_SAMSUNG
>  	tristate "Samsung SoC serial support"
> +	depends on PLAT_SAMSUNG || ARCH_EXYNOS || COMPILE_TEST
>  	select SERIAL_CORE
>  	help
>  	  Support for the on-chip UARTs on the Samsung S3C24XX series CPUs,
> -- 
> 2.17.1
> 

Ok, I really don't like the PLAT_* stuff, but I'll go apply this now and
push to remove that instead...

thanks,

greg k-h