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From: "Martin K. Petersen" <martin.petersen@oracle.com>
To: Bart Van Assche <bvanassche@acm.org>
Cc: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>,
	"Martin K. Petersen" <martin.petersen@oracle.com>,
	John Garry <john.g.garry@oracle.com>,
	axboe@kernel.dk, kbusch@kernel.org, hch@lst.de, sagi@grimberg.me,
	jejb@linux.ibm.com, djwong@kernel.org, viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk,
	brauner@kernel.org, chandan.babu@oracle.com, dchinner@redhat.com,
	linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org, linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, tytso@mit.edu, jbongio@google.com,
	linux-api@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 10/21] block: Add fops atomic write support
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2023 21:21:01 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <yq1v8bjpaz5.fsf@ca-mkp.ca.oracle.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <2bb2a4d0-4f1f-45f1-9196-f5d0d8ee1878@acm.org> (Bart Van Assche's message of "Fri, 6 Oct 2023 10:22:08 -0700")


Bart,

> The above implies that this parameter will always be equal to the
> logical block size.

It does not. Being able to write each individual block in an I/O without
tearing does not imply that a device can write two blocks as a single
atomic operation.

> Writes to a single physical block happen atomically. If there are
> multiple logical blocks per physical block, the block device must
> serialize read/modify/write cycles internally.

This is what SBC has to say:

"If any write command that is not an atomic write command, does not
complete successfully (e.g., the command completed with CHECK CONDITION
status, or the command was being processed at the time of a power loss
or an incorrect demount of a removable medium), then any data in the
logical blocks referenced by the LBAs specified by that command is
indeterminate."

SBC defines "atomic write command" like this:

"An atomic write command performs one or more atomic write operations.
 The following write commands are atomic write commands:

 a) WRITE ATOMIC (16) (see 5.48); and
 b) WRITE ATOMIC (32) (see 5.49)."

You will note that none of the regular WRITE commands appear in that
list.

Now, in practice we obviously rely heavily on the fact that most devices
are implemented in a sane fashion which doesn't mess up individual
logical blocks on power fail. But the spec does not guarantee this; it
is device implementation dependent. And again, we have seen both hard
disk drives and SSDs that cause collateral damage to an entire physical
block when power is lost at the wrong time.

-- 
Martin K. Petersen	Oracle Linux Engineering

  reply	other threads:[~2023-10-07  1:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 124+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-09-29 10:27 [PATCH 00/21] block atomic writes John Garry
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 01/21] block: Add atomic write operations to request_queue limits John Garry
2023-10-03 16:40   ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-04  3:00     ` Martin K. Petersen
2023-10-04 17:28       ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-04 18:26         ` Martin K. Petersen
2023-10-04 21:00       ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-05  8:22         ` John Garry
2023-11-09 15:10   ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-11-09 17:01     ` John Garry
2023-11-10  6:23       ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-11-10  9:04         ` John Garry
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 02/21] block: Limit atomic writes according to bio and queue limits John Garry
2023-11-09 15:13   ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-11-09 17:41     ` John Garry
2023-12-04  3:19   ` Ming Lei
2023-12-04  3:55     ` Ming Lei
2023-12-04  9:35       ` John Garry
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 03/21] fs/bdev: Add atomic write support info to statx John Garry
2023-09-29 22:49   ` Eric Biggers
2023-10-01 13:23     ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-02  9:51       ` John Garry
2023-10-02 18:39         ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-03  0:28           ` Martin K. Petersen
2023-11-09 15:15             ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-10-03  1:51         ` Dave Chinner
2023-10-03  2:57           ` Darrick J. Wong
2023-10-03  7:23             ` John Garry
2023-10-03 15:46               ` Darrick J. Wong
2023-10-04 14:19                 ` John Garry
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 04/21] fs: Add RWF_ATOMIC and IOCB_ATOMIC flags for atomic write support John Garry
2023-10-06 18:15   ` Jeremy Bongio
2023-10-09 22:02     ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 05/21] block: Add REQ_ATOMIC flag John Garry
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 06/21] block: Pass blk_queue_get_max_sectors() a request pointer John Garry
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 07/21] block: Limit atomic write IO size according to atomic_write_max_sectors John Garry
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 08/21] block: Error an attempt to split an atomic write bio John Garry
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 09/21] block: Add checks to merging of atomic writes John Garry
2023-09-30 13:40   ` kernel test robot
2023-10-02 22:50     ` Nathan Chancellor
2023-10-04 11:40       ` John Garry
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 10/21] block: Add fops atomic write support John Garry
2023-09-29 17:51   ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-02 10:10     ` John Garry
2023-10-02 19:12       ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-03  0:48         ` Martin K. Petersen
2023-10-03 16:55           ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-04  2:53             ` Martin K. Petersen
2023-10-04 17:22               ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-04 18:17                 ` Martin K. Petersen
2023-10-05 17:10                   ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-05 22:36                     ` Dave Chinner
2023-10-05 22:58                       ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-06  4:31                         ` Dave Chinner
2023-10-06 17:22                           ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-07  1:21                             ` Martin K. Petersen [this message]
2023-10-03  8:37         ` John Garry
2023-10-03 16:45           ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-04  9:14             ` John Garry
2023-10-04 17:34               ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-04 21:59                 ` Dave Chinner
2023-12-04  2:30   ` Ming Lei
2023-12-04  9:27     ` John Garry
2023-12-04 12:18       ` Ming Lei
2023-12-04 13:13         ` John Garry
2023-12-05  1:45           ` Ming Lei
2023-12-05 10:49             ` John Garry
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 11/21] fs: xfs: Don't use low-space allocator for alignment > 1 John Garry
2023-10-03  1:16   ` Dave Chinner
2023-10-03  3:00     ` Darrick J. Wong
2023-10-03  4:34       ` Dave Chinner
2023-10-03 10:22       ` John Garry
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 12/21] fs: xfs: Introduce FORCEALIGN inode flag John Garry
2023-11-09 15:24   ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 13/21] fs: xfs: Make file data allocations observe the 'forcealign' flag John Garry
2023-10-03  1:42   ` Dave Chinner
2023-10-03 10:13     ` John Garry
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 14/21] fs: xfs: Enable file data forcealign feature John Garry
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 15/21] fs: xfs: Support atomic write for statx John Garry
2023-10-03  3:32   ` Dave Chinner
2023-10-03 10:56     ` John Garry
2023-10-03 16:10       ` Darrick J. Wong
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 16/21] fs: iomap: Atomic write support John Garry
2023-10-03  4:24   ` Dave Chinner
2023-10-03 12:55     ` John Garry
2023-10-03 16:47     ` Darrick J. Wong
2023-10-04  1:16       ` Dave Chinner
2023-10-24 12:59     ` John Garry
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 17/21] fs: xfs: iomap atomic " John Garry
2023-11-09 15:26   ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-11-10 10:42     ` John Garry
2023-11-28  8:56       ` John Garry
2023-11-28 13:56         ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-11-28 17:42           ` John Garry
2023-11-29  2:45             ` Martin K. Petersen
2023-12-04 13:45             ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-12-04 15:19               ` John Garry
2023-12-04 15:39                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-12-04 18:06                   ` John Garry
2023-12-05  4:55                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-12-05 11:09                   ` John Garry
2023-12-05 13:59                 ` Ming Lei
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 18/21] scsi: sd: Support reading atomic properties from block limits VPD John Garry
2023-09-29 17:54   ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-02 11:27     ` John Garry
2023-10-06 17:52       ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-06 23:48         ` Martin K. Petersen
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 19/21] scsi: sd: Add WRITE_ATOMIC_16 support John Garry
2023-09-29 17:59   ` Bart Van Assche
2023-10-02 11:36     ` John Garry
2023-10-02 19:21       ` Bart Van Assche
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 20/21] scsi: scsi_debug: Atomic write support John Garry
2023-09-29 10:27 ` [PATCH 21/21] nvme: Support atomic writes John Garry
     [not found]   ` <CGME20231004113943eucas1p23a51ce5ef06c36459f826101bb7b85fc@eucas1p2.samsung.com>
2023-10-04 11:39     ` Pankaj Raghav
2023-10-05 10:24       ` John Garry
2023-10-05 13:32         ` Pankaj Raghav
2023-10-05 15:05           ` John Garry
2023-11-09 15:36   ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-11-09 15:42     ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-11-09 15:46       ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-11-09 19:08         ` John Garry
2023-11-10  6:29           ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-11-10  8:44             ` John Garry
2023-09-29 14:58 ` [PATCH 00/21] block " Bart Van Assche

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