* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
[not found] ` <E1ClQi2-0004BO-00@dorka.pomaz.szeredi.hu>
@ 2005-01-12 13:49 ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-01-12 14:31 ` Diego Calleja
` (3 more replies)
0 siblings, 4 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Miklos Szeredi @ 2005-01-12 13:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: kinema, fuse-devel; +Cc: linux-kernel, akpm, torvalds
> > How goes the attempt to get FUSE merged into Andrew or Linus' tree?
> > I saw that an attempt was made about three weeks ago on the LKML.
>
> I made some changes to the kernel code since the last submission
> (related to being able to interrupt requests), and some problems still
> need to be ironed out. Then I'll submit again, hopefully this time
> with more success :)
Well, there doesn't seem to be a great rush to include FUSE in the
kernel. Maybe they just don't realize what they are missing out on ;)
So if any of you would like to support this motion, you can mail the
linux-kernel list and maybe Linus and Andrew, to generate a little
discussion on why (or why not) inclusion is a good idea.
Thanks,
Miklos
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 13:49 ` [fuse-devel] Merging? Miklos Szeredi
@ 2005-01-12 14:31 ` Diego Calleja
2005-01-12 14:51 ` Miklos Szeredi
` (3 more replies)
2005-01-12 19:01 ` Andrew Morton
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 4 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Diego Calleja @ 2005-01-12 14:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Miklos Szeredi; +Cc: kinema, fuse-devel, linux-kernel, akpm, torvalds
El Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:49:35 +0100 Miklos Szeredi <miklos@szeredi.hu> escribió:
> So if any of you would like to support this motion, you can mail the
> linux-kernel list and maybe Linus and Andrew, to generate a little
> discussion on why (or why not) inclusion is a good idea.
Personally I think it's cool for "desktops" and other reasons because:
-It could replace gnome-vfs AND kioslaves by a more generic solution that works
for all environments
-You could implement several "not-performance-critical" filesystems (fat,
isofs) with FUSE to avoid possible security issues. Give that nowadays
usb sticks and cd/dvds are so common it'd be possible to modify a filesystem
on purpose to crash the kernel if a bug were found in those filesytems. With
FUSE that posibility decreases.
-Since you can use other programming languages, I suposse it'd be easier for
people to write support for weird filesystems.
-Better for kernel (less code to maintain given a big number of filesystems)
and less pressure for VFS developers when making big changes to the VFS.
-Possibility to write stupid filesystems like "gmailfs".
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 14:31 ` Diego Calleja
@ 2005-01-12 14:51 ` Miklos Szeredi
[not found] ` <200501122120.08217.vincenzo_mlRE.MOVE@yahoo.it>
2005-01-13 14:08 ` Pavel Machek
2005-01-12 15:58 ` Florian Schanda
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 2 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Miklos Szeredi @ 2005-01-12 14:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: diegocg; +Cc: kinema, fuse-devel, linux-kernel, akpm, torvalds
> -You could implement several "not-performance-critical" filesystems (fat,
> isofs) with FUSE to avoid possible security issues. Give that nowadays
> usb sticks and cd/dvds are so common it'd be possible to modify a filesystem
> on purpose to crash the kernel if a bug were found in those filesytems. With
> FUSE that posibility decreases.
One of my pet ideas, is a userspace loopback mounter, which would use
UML to actually mount an image, and export the resulting filesystem
through FUSE to the host.
Brilliant isn't it?
Miklos
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 14:31 ` Diego Calleja
2005-01-12 14:51 ` Miklos Szeredi
@ 2005-01-12 15:58 ` Florian Schanda
2005-01-12 16:16 ` Dobrica Pavlinusic
2005-01-14 11:37 ` Nix
3 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Florian Schanda @ 2005-01-12 15:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Diego Calleja; +Cc: Miklos Szeredi, fuse-devel, linux-kernel
On Wednesday 12 January 2005 14:31, Diego Calleja wrote:
> -It could replace gnome-vfs AND kioslaves by a more generic solution that
> works for all environments
kioslaves such as camera, smb, etc.. are obvious to replace (and this has
already happened from what I can see), and I think are a good idea. We have a
single mountpoint for these things, for example:
/camera/mycamera/picture1.png
/smb/workgroup/computer/share/file.blah
How would you go about replacing a kioslaves which operate "somewhere in the
middle" (i dunno the correct technical term) such as tar? In other words how
would tar:/home/foo/bar.tar.bz2/baz/picture.png work with a FUSE (so
reiserfs4 is not a valid answer to this question) filesystem?
Just some thoughts,
Florian
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 14:31 ` Diego Calleja
2005-01-12 14:51 ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-01-12 15:58 ` Florian Schanda
@ 2005-01-12 16:16 ` Dobrica Pavlinusic
2005-01-14 11:37 ` Nix
3 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Dobrica Pavlinusic @ 2005-01-12 16:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: akpm, torvalds; +Cc: fuse-devel, linux-kernel, mnalis
On Wed, Jan 12, 2005 at 03:31:31PM +0100, Diego Calleja wrote:
> El Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:49:35 +0100 Miklos Szeredi <miklos@szeredi.hu> escribió:
> > Well, there doesn't seem to be a great rush to include FUSE in the
> > kernel. Maybe they just don't realize what they are missing out on ;)
> >
> > So if any of you would like to support this motion, you can mail the
> > linux-kernel list and maybe Linus and Andrew, to generate a little
> > discussion on why (or why not) inclusion is a good idea.
>
> -Possibility to write stupid filesystems like "gmailfs".
Not to mention Fuse::DBI which allows you to mount relational database
as a file-system. Imagine editing templates from your CMS with vi. Joy,
right?
Back to serious notes, having ability to write filesystems in user-space
is something that micro kernels (like HURD or plan9) had for a long time
and it's extremely useful if file-system semantic is mappable to problem
at hand.
That would also help reduce kernel bloat because you could write
something like umsdos in user-space where it belongs in first place.
--
Dobrica Pavlinusic 2share!2flame dpavlin@rot13.org
Unix addict. Internet consultant. http://www.rot13.org/~dpavlin
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 13:49 ` [fuse-devel] Merging? Miklos Szeredi
2005-01-12 14:31 ` Diego Calleja
@ 2005-01-12 19:01 ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-12 19:15 ` Erik Hensema
` (6 more replies)
2005-01-12 19:44 ` Pavel Machek
2005-01-13 10:52 ` Bernhard Schauer
3 siblings, 7 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Andrew Morton @ 2005-01-12 19:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Miklos Szeredi; +Cc: kinema, fuse-devel, linux-kernel, torvalds
Miklos Szeredi <miklos@szeredi.hu> wrote:
>
> Well, there doesn't seem to be a great rush to include FUSE in the
> kernel. Maybe they just don't realize what they are missing out on ;)
heh. What userspace filesystems have thus-far been developed, and what are
people using them for?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 19:01 ` Andrew Morton
@ 2005-01-12 19:15 ` Erik Hensema
2005-01-12 19:56 ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-01-12 20:15 ` Christian Axelsson
` (5 subsequent siblings)
6 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Erik Hensema @ 2005-01-12 19:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-kernel
Andrew Morton (akpm@osdl.org) wrote:
> Miklos Szeredi <miklos@szeredi.hu> wrote:
>>
>> Well, there doesn't seem to be a great rush to include FUSE in the
>> kernel. Maybe they just don't realize what they are missing out on ;)
>
> heh. What userspace filesystems have thus-far been developed, and what are
> people using them for?
I was using siefs, to mount the fs of my Siemens mobile phone
(via serial cable). However it doesn't seem to work with the
current fuse anymore.
--
Erik Hensema <erik@hensema.net>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 13:49 ` [fuse-devel] Merging? Miklos Szeredi
2005-01-12 14:31 ` Diego Calleja
2005-01-12 19:01 ` Andrew Morton
@ 2005-01-12 19:44 ` Pavel Machek
2005-01-12 20:35 ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-01-13 10:52 ` Bernhard Schauer
3 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Pavel Machek @ 2005-01-12 19:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Miklos Szeredi; +Cc: kinema, fuse-devel, linux-kernel, akpm, torvalds
Hi!
> > > How goes the attempt to get FUSE merged into Andrew or Linus' tree?
> > > I saw that an attempt was made about three weeks ago on the LKML.
> >
> > I made some changes to the kernel code since the last submission
> > (related to being able to interrupt requests), and some problems still
> > need to be ironed out. Then I'll submit again, hopefully this time
> > with more success :)
>
> Well, there doesn't seem to be a great rush to include FUSE in the
> kernel. Maybe they just don't realize what they are missing out on ;)
>
> So if any of you would like to support this motion, you can mail the
> linux-kernel list and maybe Linus and Andrew, to generate a little
> discussion on why (or why not) inclusion is a good idea.
I like fuse, but I do not think Linus and Akpm have enough mails already. Getting it merged to some distribution might
do the trick....
Pavel
--
64 bytes from 195.113.31.123: icmp_seq=28 ttl=51 time=448769.1 ms
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 19:15 ` Erik Hensema
@ 2005-01-12 19:56 ` Miklos Szeredi
0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Miklos Szeredi @ 2005-01-12 19:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: erik; +Cc: dmitry-z, linux-kernel, fuse-devel
> I was using siefs, to mount the fs of my Siemens mobile phone
> (via serial cable). However it doesn't seem to work with the
> current fuse anymore.
The following patch makes it compile with FUSE 2.2-pre3 too. You need
to run autoreconf after patching.
Not tested, since I don't have a Siemens phone.
Miklos
diff -ru siefs-0.4.orig/configure.in siefs-0.4/configure.in
--- siefs-0.4.orig/configure.in 2004-08-13 08:39:07.000000000 +0200
+++ siefs-0.4/configure.in 2005-01-12 20:40:20.000000000 +0100
@@ -39,14 +39,6 @@
])
fi
-if ! grep -q '\(\*release\)' $fuseinst/include/fuse.h ; then
- AC_MSG_RESULT([old])
- AC_MSG_ERROR([
-*** You need fuse version 1.0 or later.
-*** Please go to http://sourceforge.net/projects/avf
-*** and download the latest version
-])
-fi
AC_MSG_RESULT(${fuseinst})
AC_SUBST(fuseinst)
diff -ru siefs-0.4.orig/siefs/Makefile.am siefs-0.4/siefs/Makefile.am
--- siefs-0.4.orig/siefs/Makefile.am 2004-08-13 08:45:30.000000000 +0200
+++ siefs-0.4/siefs/Makefile.am 2005-01-12 20:49:27.000000000 +0100
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
## Process this file with automake to produce Makefile.in
-CFLAGS = -I$(fuseinst)/include
+CFLAGS = -I$(fuseinst)/include -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -DFUSE_USE_VERSION=11
bin_PROGRAMS = siefs slink
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 19:01 ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-12 19:15 ` Erik Hensema
@ 2005-01-12 20:15 ` Christian Axelsson
2005-01-12 20:19 ` Miklos Szeredi
` (4 subsequent siblings)
6 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Christian Axelsson @ 2005-01-12 20:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andrew Morton; +Cc: Miklos Szeredi, fuse-devel, linux-kernel, torvalds
Andrew Morton wrote:
> heh. What userspace filesystems have thus-far been developed, and what are
> people using them for?
Im using the LUFS bridge from time to time for nice access to remote
filesystems over ssh. I also plan to use the bluetooth filesystem (btfs)
as soon as I get my #/%" bluetooth adapter working again ;)
For a list of other more or less serious filesystems (as gmailfs)
checkout http://fuse.sourceforge.net/filesystems.html
--
Regards,
Christian
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 19:01 ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-12 19:15 ` Erik Hensema
2005-01-12 20:15 ` Christian Axelsson
@ 2005-01-12 20:19 ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-01-12 20:51 ` Diego Calleja
` (3 subsequent siblings)
6 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Miklos Szeredi @ 2005-01-12 20:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: akpm; +Cc: kinema, fuse-devel, linux-kernel, torvalds
> > Well, there doesn't seem to be a great rush to include FUSE in the
> > kernel. Maybe they just don't realize what they are missing out on ;)
>
> heh. What userspace filesystems have thus-far been developed, and what are
> people using them for?
Sshfs (idea shamelessly stolen from the LUFS project). If you can ssh
to some host you can also mount it as a normal user like this:
mkdir /tmp/kempelen
sshfs mszeredi@kempelen: /tmp/kempelen
It pretty much trumps all other network filesystems wrt ease of server
setup, it's secure, efficient, all you need in a network filesystem :)
(available from http://sourceforge.net/projects/fuse; needs
fuse-2.2-pre3 and libglib-2.0)
Miklos
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
[not found] ` <200501122120.08217.vincenzo_mlRE.MOVE@yahoo.it>
@ 2005-01-12 20:32 ` Miklos Szeredi
0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Miklos Szeredi @ 2005-01-12 20:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: vincenzo_mlRE.MOVE; +Cc: fuse-devel, linux-kernel
> Perhaps a little heavyweight but it would solve an outstanding problem
> which is "I have the software, I have the hardware, hell, why should I
> type my root password to mount a ****ing iso ?" :)
Exactly!
In fact it's not so heavyweight either. A standalone UML binary which
just contains all the major filesystems and the core kernel is little
over 3Mbytes. It's smaller than many binaries even without their
library dependencies. It loads in less than a second... The linux
kernel is still pretty nice and lean!
Miklos
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 19:44 ` Pavel Machek
@ 2005-01-12 20:35 ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-01-12 20:56 ` Pavel Machek
0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Miklos Szeredi @ 2005-01-12 20:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pavel; +Cc: kinema, fuse-devel, linux-kernel, akpm, torvalds
> I like fuse, but I do not think Linus and Akpm have enough mails
> already. Getting it merged to some distribution might do the
> trick....
I know debian and gentoo already carry packages. It doesn't get it
closer to inclusion though.
Miklos
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 19:01 ` Andrew Morton
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2005-01-12 20:19 ` Miklos Szeredi
@ 2005-01-12 20:51 ` Diego Calleja
2005-01-12 21:15 ` Tomasz Torcz
2005-01-13 14:37 ` Pavel Machek
` (2 subsequent siblings)
6 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Diego Calleja @ 2005-01-12 20:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andrew Morton; +Cc: miklos, kinema, fuse-devel, linux-kernel, torvalds
El Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:01:09 -0800 Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org> escribió:
> Miklos Szeredi <miklos@szeredi.hu> wrote:
> >
> > Well, there doesn't seem to be a great rush to include FUSE in the
> > kernel. Maybe they just don't realize what they are missing out on ;)
>
> heh. What userspace filesystems have thus-far been developed, and what are
> people using them for?
I know of several gmailfs users (mount your 1GB-space gmail account an use it
to get put things and retrieve them anywhere)
(If it gets into mainline people will probably stop developing things for
gnome-vfs/kioslave and use FUSE instead for "desktops")
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 20:35 ` Miklos Szeredi
@ 2005-01-12 20:56 ` Pavel Machek
2005-01-13 9:06 ` Miklos Szeredi
0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Pavel Machek @ 2005-01-12 20:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Miklos Szeredi; +Cc: kinema, fuse-devel, linux-kernel, akpm, torvalds
Hi!
> > I like fuse, but I do not think Linus and Akpm have enough mails
> > already. Getting it merged to some distribution might do the
> > trick....
>
> I know debian and gentoo already carry packages. It doesn't get it
> closer to inclusion though.
Does Debian carry kernel patched with FUSE patches by default?
Pavel
PS: IIRC and not speaking for suse: I think suse was seriously
thinking about using FUSE by default. It did not work well enough back
then. Not sure who exactly was working on it...
--
People were complaining that M$ turns users into beta-testers...
...jr ghea gurz vagb qrirybcref, naq gurl frrz gb yvxr vg gung jnl!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 20:51 ` Diego Calleja
@ 2005-01-12 21:15 ` Tomasz Torcz
0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Tomasz Torcz @ 2005-01-12 21:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-kernel
On Wed, Jan 12, 2005 at 09:51:57PM +0100, Diego Calleja wrote:
> (If it gets into mainline people will probably stop developing things for
> gnome-vfs/kioslave and use FUSE instead for "desktops")
Not likely. GNOME/KDE are crossplatform. FUSE is Linux specific.
--
Tomasz Torcz Only gods can safely risk perfection,
zdzichu@irc.-nie.spam-.pl it's a dangerous thing for a man. -- Alia
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 20:56 ` Pavel Machek
@ 2005-01-13 9:06 ` Miklos Szeredi
0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Miklos Szeredi @ 2005-01-13 9:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pavel; +Cc: kinema, fuse-devel, linux-kernel, akpm, torvalds
> Does Debian carry kernel patched with FUSE patches by default?
No.
> Pavel
> PS: IIRC and not speaking for suse: I think suse was seriously
> thinking about using FUSE by default. It did not work well enough back
> then. Not sure who exactly was working on it...
Well, they never talked with me about it.
Thanks,
Miklos
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 13:49 ` [fuse-devel] Merging? Miklos Szeredi
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2005-01-12 19:44 ` Pavel Machek
@ 2005-01-13 10:52 ` Bernhard Schauer
3 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Bernhard Schauer @ 2005-01-13 10:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Miklos Szeredi, lkml
> Well, there doesn't seem to be a great rush to include FUSE in the
> kernel. Maybe they just don't realize what they are missing out on ;)
I'm a little bit confused... a few weeks ago I read a thread regarding
the remove of some - unneeded ? - symbols from IEEE1394 core. Some
persons in the discussion told, that everything should be included into
kernel mainline, cause if not, symbols needed may be removed.
Now here is the discussion about including FUSE into kernel... So WHAT?
In any case, I do not think that FUSE, compiled in as module, could
bother someone.
regards
Bernhard
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 14:51 ` Miklos Szeredi
[not found] ` <200501122120.08217.vincenzo_mlRE.MOVE@yahoo.it>
@ 2005-01-13 14:08 ` Pavel Machek
1 sibling, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Pavel Machek @ 2005-01-13 14:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Miklos Szeredi; +Cc: diegocg, kinema, fuse-devel, linux-kernel, akpm, torvalds
Hi!
> > -You could implement several "not-performance-critical" filesystems (fat,
> > isofs) with FUSE to avoid possible security issues. Give that nowadays
> > usb sticks and cd/dvds are so common it'd be possible to modify a filesystem
> > on purpose to crash the kernel if a bug were found in those filesytems. With
> > FUSE that posibility decreases.
>
> One of my pet ideas, is a userspace loopback mounter, which would use
> UML to actually mount an image, and export the resulting filesystem
> through FUSE to the host.
>
> Brilliant isn't it?
Uh, yes, it actually makes sense.
OTOH perhaps porting linux's vfs to userland would be better idea.
People would like to tap on .iso images in mc to open them, but running
full UML to do this is little heavy-weight solution.
Pavel
--
64 bytes from 195.113.31.123: icmp_seq=28 ttl=51 time=448769.1 ms
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 19:01 ` Andrew Morton
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2005-01-12 20:51 ` Diego Calleja
@ 2005-01-13 14:37 ` Pavel Machek
2005-01-17 17:01 ` Steve McIntyre
2005-01-18 22:23 ` Luca Ferroni
6 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Pavel Machek @ 2005-01-13 14:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andrew Morton; +Cc: Miklos Szeredi, kinema, fuse-devel, linux-kernel, torvalds
Hi!
> > Well, there doesn't seem to be a great rush to include FUSE in the
> > kernel. Maybe they just don't realize what they are missing out on ;)
>
> heh. What userspace filesystems have thus-far been developed, and what are
> people using them for?
Right now, every project (mc, gnome, kde) has their own vfs implementation,
so that they can work transparently over ftp, handle archives, etc.
Done properly, userspace filesystem like fuse can unify those, plus provide better caching.
It also has chance to be a place for niche filesystems (like atari800) that would be too much pain to keep in kernel.
Pavel
--
64 bytes from 195.113.31.123: icmp_seq=28 ttl=51 time=448769.1 ms
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 14:31 ` Diego Calleja
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2005-01-12 16:16 ` Dobrica Pavlinusic
@ 2005-01-14 11:37 ` Nix
3 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Nix @ 2005-01-14 11:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Diego Calleja; +Cc: fuse-devel, linux-kernel
On 12 Jan 2005, Diego Calleja said:
> -Since you can use other programming languages, I suposse it'd be easier for
> people to write support for weird filesystems.
Very weird, since the FUSE C library layer is small enough that if needs
be you can rewrite *that* in other languages as well.
I have plans for a Guile version of the userspace part of FUSE, for
instance, and some filesystems written in Guile: you certainly couldn't
do *that* in the kernel.
--
`Blish is clearly in love with language. Unfortunately,
language dislikes him intensely.' --- Russ Allbery
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 19:01 ` Andrew Morton
` (4 preceding siblings ...)
2005-01-13 14:37 ` Pavel Machek
@ 2005-01-17 17:01 ` Steve McIntyre
2005-01-18 22:23 ` Luca Ferroni
6 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Steve McIntyre @ 2005-01-17 17:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: akpm; +Cc: kinema, fuse-devel, linux-kernel, torvalds
Andrew Morton wrote:
>Miklos Szeredi <miklos@szeredi.hu> wrote:
>>
>> Well, there doesn't seem to be a great rush to include FUSE in the
>> kernel. Maybe they just don't realize what they are missing out on ;)
>
>heh. What userspace filesystems have thus-far been developed, and what are
>people using them for?
At Plasmon we've developed a userland driver for our new UDO (Ultra
Density Optical) drive using FUSE. To avoid the complexity of
supporting a native 8KB sector size directly in kernel, we have
instead used FUSE to allow us to work on filesystems in
userland. That's made life _very_ much easier for us...
FUSE is very cool - there are many useful things that can be done with
it. Kudos to Miklos and others for their work on it!
--
Steve McIntyre, Plasmon smcintyre@software.plasmon.com
For more information on UDO, visit www.udo.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 19:01 ` Andrew Morton
` (5 preceding siblings ...)
2005-01-17 17:01 ` Steve McIntyre
@ 2005-01-18 22:23 ` Luca Ferroni
6 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Luca Ferroni @ 2005-01-18 22:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-kernel
Il Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:01:09 -0800, Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org> ha scritto:
> Miklos Szeredi <miklos@szeredi.hu> wrote:
> >
> > Well, there doesn't seem to be a great rush to include FUSE in the
> > kernel. Maybe they just don't realize what they are missing out on ;)
>
> heh. What userspace filesystems have thus-far been developed, and what are
> people using them for?
For my master laurea thesis I developed PackageFS that aims to
transparently manage packages in several distros.
There are also many other facilities:
- View a directory-based tree of packages (with the files that each package owns)
which can be nested by category, or by priority
In the future
- you will be able to add users to "packages" group to make them able
to manage packages
- you can mount the file system on a cluster to transparently manage
several hosts
You can find my thesis at http://packagefs.sourceforge.net
I think FUSE is a very good idea (as good as the actual implementation is),
IMHO it should be inserted in the mainline kernel.
Thanks to Miklos and other developers.
Luca
--
Non ci toglieranno mai....la LIBERTA'!!!
Luca Ferroni
ICQ #317977679
www.cs.unibo.it/~fferroni/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
2005-01-12 21:33 Vincenzo Ciancia
@ 2005-01-12 23:19 ` Yaroslav Rastrigin
0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Yaroslav Rastrigin @ 2005-01-12 23:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-kernel
Hi,
On 13 January 2005 00:33, you wrote:
> a particular filesystem and has ended up resorting to plasticfs (which
> uses the LD_PRELOAD trick - not quite satisfying but it does not
>
> require kernel patching) saying:
> > Most of the problem I have [...] will still be in a better
> > MLFUSE, which is that it requires to modify the kernel by loading a
> > module (which is often tied to one particular version of Linux which
> > means that it is tedious to maintain such module), and users hate
> > that.
Can't agree more. I don't want to release my fuse-based SMB-connector (smb
kioslave/gnome-vfs replacement :-) for exactly this reason - having released
some projects earlier , I can't afford (in terms of time) to answer emails
asking how to install fuse , where to grab it and which version, how to build
etc, so I'm eagerly awaiting when fuse will be merged and I could point to
kernel.org and required kernel version...
Right now I think -mm tree will be a good starting point to instantly increase
fuse testing base to iron out possible glitches and to ensure official
acceptance.
--
Managing your Territory since the dawn of times ...
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
@ 2005-01-12 21:33 Vincenzo Ciancia
2005-01-12 23:19 ` Yaroslav Rastrigin
0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Vincenzo Ciancia @ 2005-01-12 21:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-kernel
Andrew Morton wrote:
> Miklos Szeredi <miklos@szeredi.hu> wrote:
>>
>> Well, there doesn't seem to be a great rush to include FUSE in the
>> kernel. Maybe they just don't realize what they are missing out on ;)
>
>heh. What userspace filesystems have thus-far been developed, and what
> are people using them for?
There's been sort of an increasing hype around userspace filesystems
during last years (and exponentially during last months), as a result
we have lufs, plasticfs, fuse and some other implementation of a
kernel-userspace bridge for filesystems, but also many more or less
interesting (depending on one's point of view) ongoing free software
projects using those, which mainly cover interfacing to "strange" or
proprietary-protocol hardware devices as if they where filesystems,
access to remote data as if it was local, or new filesystem concepts
such as filesystems that have relational databases as helpers.
Apart from projects "officially" using fuse, listed at
http://fuse.sourceforge.net/filesystems.htm
I know of another interface to proprietary protocol mp3 players where
they are actively developing a filesystem interface using fuse and
libusb in ocaml - resulting in a quick and robust prototype written in
a few spare time.
In defense of fuse itself I can mention the ease of use, both of the C
library and of interfaces for other languages, its robustness and its
completeness w.r.t. features (e.g. extended attributes, multithreading
and access from multiple users and serving files "virtually" owned by
different users).
Said this, and after commenting that I am nobody but yet another
developer of yet another "new filesystem concept", I think that besides
useful filesystems already developed, something good will come out of
all these people experimenting with filesystems, databases, indexing
systems and so on, but that if we want to take the good out of this
all, even for already existing projects like sshfs or gphoto2-fuse-fs,
we need fuse to be distributed in the kernel so that people is
encouraged to try them in their everyday life.
I will quote an e-mail from a researcher in a group who is implementing
a particular filesystem and has ended up resorting to plasticfs (which
uses the LD_PRELOAD trick - not quite satisfying but it does not
require kernel patching) saying:
> Most of the problem I have [...] will still be in a better
> MLFUSE, which is that it requires to modify the kernel by loading a
> module (which is often tied to one particular version of Linux which
> means that it is tedious to maintain such module), and users hate
> that.
bye
Vincenzo Ciancia
ciancia at di unipi it
vincenzo_ml at yahoo it
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: [fuse-devel] Merging?
@ 2005-01-12 15:19 Hubert Tonneau
0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Hubert Tonneau @ 2005-01-12 15:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-kernel
> Well, there doesn't seem to be a great rush to include FUSE in the
> kernel. Maybe they just don't realize what they are missing out on ;)
Linux tree does not want zilion filesystems to be merged in, even if it's
supposed to be an open system, and the reason is that it would be a nightmare
to update all of them with each VFS, locking, etc changes.
So, FUSE is a must because it enables all these strange filesystems for special
purpose (Pliant http://pliant.cx/ can use it as an example to export part of
it's internal VFS, and nobody cares about Pliant),
to have minimal deal with Linux kernel internal details, and to not crash the
all machine in case of small problem in the strange filesystem.
The only serious objection to not using FUSE for strange filesystems is speed,
so here are some numbers:
On the test machine I found that using a native fisystem (EXT3) as the storage
backend, I can server files at 200 MB/second (using loopback as the network layer),
and using a user land over FUSE filesystem as the storage backend, I can serve
files at 50 MB/second.
If you read the second number, you discover that the speed penality is not
serious except for very demanding servers or applications, because the nowdays
disks throughoutput is also rougly 50 MB/second.
So in my test, if I had not done the test on a small 100 MB file already loaded
in the Linux cache, the effective speed would have been roughly the same.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2005-01-18 22:24 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 26+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
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[not found] <loom.20041231T155940-548@post.gmane.org>
[not found] ` <E1ClQi2-0004BO-00@dorka.pomaz.szeredi.hu>
2005-01-12 13:49 ` [fuse-devel] Merging? Miklos Szeredi
2005-01-12 14:31 ` Diego Calleja
2005-01-12 14:51 ` Miklos Szeredi
[not found] ` <200501122120.08217.vincenzo_mlRE.MOVE@yahoo.it>
2005-01-12 20:32 ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-01-13 14:08 ` Pavel Machek
2005-01-12 15:58 ` Florian Schanda
2005-01-12 16:16 ` Dobrica Pavlinusic
2005-01-14 11:37 ` Nix
2005-01-12 19:01 ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-12 19:15 ` Erik Hensema
2005-01-12 19:56 ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-01-12 20:15 ` Christian Axelsson
2005-01-12 20:19 ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-01-12 20:51 ` Diego Calleja
2005-01-12 21:15 ` Tomasz Torcz
2005-01-13 14:37 ` Pavel Machek
2005-01-17 17:01 ` Steve McIntyre
2005-01-18 22:23 ` Luca Ferroni
2005-01-12 19:44 ` Pavel Machek
2005-01-12 20:35 ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-01-12 20:56 ` Pavel Machek
2005-01-13 9:06 ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-01-13 10:52 ` Bernhard Schauer
2005-01-12 15:19 Hubert Tonneau
2005-01-12 21:33 Vincenzo Ciancia
2005-01-12 23:19 ` Yaroslav Rastrigin
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