From: Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>, Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-mm@kvack.org,
Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>,
x86@kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 4/8] membarrier: Make the post-switch-mm barrier explicit
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 11:37:27 +1000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <1623893358.bbty474jyy.astroid@bobo.none> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <617cb897-58b1-8266-ecec-ef210832e927@kernel.org>
Excerpts from Andy Lutomirski's message of June 17, 2021 4:41 am:
> On 6/16/21 12:35 AM, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 02:19:49PM +1000, Nicholas Piggin wrote:
>>> Excerpts from Andy Lutomirski's message of June 16, 2021 1:21 pm:
>>>> membarrier() needs a barrier after any CPU changes mm. There is currently
>>>> a comment explaining why this barrier probably exists in all cases. This
>>>> is very fragile -- any change to the relevant parts of the scheduler
>>>> might get rid of these barriers, and it's not really clear to me that
>>>> the barrier actually exists in all necessary cases.
>>>
>>> The comments and barriers in the mmdrop() hunks? I don't see what is
>>> fragile or maybe-buggy about this. The barrier definitely exists.
>>>
>>> And any change can change anything, that doesn't make it fragile. My
>>> lazy tlb refcounting change avoids the mmdrop in some cases, but it
>>> replaces it with smp_mb for example.
>>
>> I'm with Nick again, on this. You're adding extra barriers for no
>> discernible reason, that's not generally encouraged, seeing how extra
>> barriers is extra slow.
>>
>> Both mmdrop() itself, as well as the callsite have comments saying how
>> membarrier relies on the implied barrier, what's fragile about that?
>>
>
> My real motivation is that mmgrab() and mmdrop() don't actually need to
> be full barriers. The current implementation has them being full
> barriers, and the current implementation is quite slow. So let's try
> that commit message again:
>
> membarrier() needs a barrier after any CPU changes mm. There is currently
> a comment explaining why this barrier probably exists in all cases. The
> logic is based on ensuring that the barrier exists on every control flow
> path through the scheduler. It also relies on mmgrab() and mmdrop() being
> full barriers.
>
> mmgrab() and mmdrop() would be better if they were not full barriers. As a
> trivial optimization, mmgrab() could use a relaxed atomic and mmdrop()
> could use a release on architectures that have these operations.
I'm not against the idea, I've looked at something similar before (not
for mmdrop but a different primitive). Also my lazy tlb shootdown series
could possibly take advantage of this, I might cherry pick it and test
performance :)
I don't think it belongs in this series though. Should go together with
something that takes advantage of it.
Thanks,
Nick
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-06-17 1:37 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 91+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-06-16 3:21 [PATCH 0/8] membarrier cleanups Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-16 3:21 ` [PATCH 1/8] membarrier: Document why membarrier() works Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-16 4:00 ` Nicholas Piggin
2021-06-16 7:30 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-17 23:45 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-16 3:21 ` [PATCH 2/8] x86/mm: Handle unlazying membarrier core sync in the arch code Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-16 4:25 ` Nicholas Piggin
2021-06-16 18:31 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-16 17:49 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2021-06-16 18:31 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-16 3:21 ` [PATCH 3/8] membarrier: Remove membarrier_arch_switch_mm() prototype in core code Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-16 4:26 ` Nicholas Piggin
2021-06-16 17:52 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2021-06-16 3:21 ` [PATCH 4/8] membarrier: Make the post-switch-mm barrier explicit Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-16 4:19 ` Nicholas Piggin
2021-06-16 7:35 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-16 18:41 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-17 1:37 ` Nicholas Piggin [this message]
2021-06-17 2:57 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-17 5:32 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-17 6:51 ` Nicholas Piggin
2021-06-17 23:49 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-19 2:53 ` Nicholas Piggin
2021-06-19 3:20 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-19 4:27 ` Nicholas Piggin
2021-06-17 9:08 ` [RFC][PATCH] sched: Use lightweight hazard pointers to grab lazy mms Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-17 9:10 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-17 10:00 ` Nicholas Piggin
2021-06-17 9:13 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-17 14:06 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-17 9:28 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-17 14:03 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-17 14:10 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-17 15:45 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-18 3:29 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-06-18 5:04 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-17 15:02 ` [PATCH 4/8] membarrier: Make the post-switch-mm barrier explicit Paul E. McKenney
2021-06-18 0:06 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-18 3:35 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-06-17 8:45 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-16 3:21 ` [PATCH 5/8] membarrier, kthread: Use _ONCE accessors for task->mm Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-16 4:28 ` Nicholas Piggin
2021-06-16 18:08 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2021-06-16 18:45 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-16 3:21 ` [PATCH 6/8] powerpc/membarrier: Remove special barrier on mm switch Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-16 4:36 ` Nicholas Piggin
2021-06-16 3:21 ` [PATCH 7/8] membarrier: Remove arm (32) support for SYNC_CORE Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-16 9:28 ` Russell King (Oracle)
2021-06-16 10:16 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-16 10:20 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-16 10:34 ` Russell King (Oracle)
2021-06-16 11:10 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-16 13:22 ` Russell King (Oracle)
2021-06-16 15:04 ` Catalin Marinas
2021-06-16 15:23 ` Russell King (Oracle)
2021-06-16 15:45 ` Catalin Marinas
2021-06-16 16:00 ` Catalin Marinas
2021-06-16 16:27 ` Russell King (Oracle)
2021-06-17 8:55 ` Krzysztof Hałasa
2021-06-18 12:54 ` Linus Walleij
2021-06-18 13:19 ` Russell King (Oracle)
2021-06-18 13:36 ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-06-17 10:40 ` Mark Rutland
2021-06-17 11:23 ` Russell King (Oracle)
2021-06-17 11:33 ` Mark Rutland
2021-06-17 13:41 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-17 13:51 ` Mark Rutland
2021-06-17 14:00 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-17 14:20 ` Mark Rutland
2021-06-17 15:01 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-17 15:13 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-17 14:16 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2021-06-17 14:05 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-18 0:07 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-16 3:21 ` [PATCH 8/8] membarrier: Rewrite sync_core_before_usermode() and improve documentation Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-16 4:45 ` Nicholas Piggin
2021-06-16 18:52 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-16 23:48 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-18 15:27 ` Christophe Leroy
2021-06-16 10:20 ` Will Deacon
2021-06-16 23:58 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-17 14:47 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2021-06-18 0:12 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-18 16:31 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2021-06-18 19:58 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-18 20:09 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2021-06-19 6:02 ` Nicholas Piggin
2021-06-19 15:50 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-06-20 2:10 ` Nicholas Piggin
2021-06-17 15:16 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2021-06-18 0:13 ` Andy Lutomirski
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