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From: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
To: James Clark <jimwclark@ntlworld.com>
Cc: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Driver Model 2 Proposal - Linux Kernel Performance v Usability
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 23:19:24 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030904221924.GK31590@mail.jlokier.co.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200309042212.25052.jimwclark@ntlworld.com>

James Clark wrote:
> Why would binary drivers be any harder to debug than the existing binary 
> kernel. If you want to debug something use the source code. My proposal 
> doesn't remove the need for quality public source code but it does isolate 
> the kernel components and allow for 'plugin' use on different kernels both 
> old and new.

Your first statement doesn't make sense.

We don't debug binary kernels by themselves - we debug them with source.

Binary drivers that come without source are almost impossible to debug.

If we can't debug the drivers, we'll soon have a Linux community
that's full of broken drivers.

If broken binary-only drivers becomes significant for many users,
Linux will become much less fun - and it may harm its adoption and
improvment.

Some would say the problem of binary-only drivers is already
significantly harming the development process: think of the people
running 2.4-only drivers who cannot be involved in 2.6 testing or
development.

Also the rate at which new open source drivers are produced will
decrease, because there will be less useful source for authors to
learn from.

-- Jamie

  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-09-04 22:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 47+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <1062637356.846.3471.camel@cube>
2003-09-04 20:14 ` Driver Model 2 Proposal - Linux Kernel Performance v Usability James Clark
2003-09-04 20:27   ` Mike Fedyk
2003-09-04 21:16     ` James Clark
2003-09-04 21:50       ` Mike Fedyk
2003-09-04 22:10       ` insecure
2003-09-04 22:01     ` jdow
2003-09-04 20:29   ` Rik van Riel
2003-09-04 21:12     ` James Clark
2003-09-04 21:40       ` Alan Cox
2003-09-04 21:41       ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2003-09-04 22:19       ` Jamie Lokier [this message]
2003-09-04 21:29   ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-09-04 21:51     ` James Clark
2003-09-04 22:06       ` Alan Cox
2003-09-04 22:10       ` Martin Mares
2003-09-04 22:23       ` Gustav Petersson
2003-09-05 17:52       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-09-05 18:31         ` James Clark
2003-09-05 18:59           ` Martin Schlemmer
2003-09-05 19:12           ` Dale P. Smith
2003-09-05 19:45             ` Stan Bubrouski
2003-09-05 19:59           ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-09-05 20:01             ` James Clark
2003-09-05 20:08           ` Mike Fedyk
2003-09-05 21:15           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-09-05 23:19             ` Bernd Eckenfels
2003-09-10 20:50     ` Timothy Miller
2003-09-10 20:48       ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-09-10 23:22         ` James Clark
2003-09-10 23:58           ` Greg KH
2003-09-12 20:51         ` Timothy Miller
2003-09-12 20:55           ` Tim Hockin
2003-09-15 11:39           ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-09-05 20:53 Chad Kitching
2003-09-05 23:30 ` Mike Fedyk
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-09-04 22:41 Chad Kitching
2003-09-03 17:53 James Clark
2003-09-03 17:49 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-03 18:23   ` Guillaume Morin
2003-09-04  4:10     ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-03 18:35   ` Guillaume Morin
2003-09-03 19:30     ` Andre Hedrick
2003-09-03 18:18 ` Greg KH
2003-09-03 18:23 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-09-03 18:49 ` Patrick Mochel
2003-09-03 18:58 ` Gábor Lénárt
2003-09-03 20:18 ` Christoph Hellwig

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