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From: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>
To: "Press, Jonathan" <Jonathan.Press@ca.com>
Cc: "Theodore Tso" <tytso@MIT.EDU>, <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	<malware-list@lists.printk.net>,
	<linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Arjan van de Ven" <arjan@infradead.org>
Subject: Re: [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to alinuxinterfaceforon access scanning
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:46:04 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080806114604.5a714d11@cuia.bos.redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <2629CC4E1D22A64593B02C43E855530304AE4AF8@USILMS12.ca.com>

On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:33:23 -0400
"Press, Jonathan" <Jonathan.Press@ca.com> wrote:

> Even so, I don't think your extreme examples are really parallel to what
> we do.  Personally, I think that scanning on open, exec and close is not
> excessive.  
> 
> And in fact, we do go out of our way to avoid scanning when it really
> isn't necessary.  For example, that's the reason that we want a cache --

Disks are slow and files are getting larger by the day.

We can do a lot better than scanning a whole file.  A mechanism
that can notify programs about what file changed and what byte
range in the file changed can reduce scanning overhead by only
needing to scan the part of the file that changed.

More importantly, getting info on which bytes in a file changed
will also help backup programs and disk indexing programs.


Blocking on open can be useful for more than just anti-virus
scanning.  It can also be useful for hierarchical storage
management or simply for using a filesystem while it is being 
restored from backup - an important consideration because
restoring a filesystem from backup can take days with modern
data sizes.

Blocking on exec is similar to blocking on open and useful
in the same scenarios.


What we need to work on is making sure that the interfaces
that go into the kernel are useful not just for anti-virus
programs, but also for other software.

-- 
All Rights Reversed

  reply	other threads:[~2008-08-06 15:47 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 251+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-08-04 21:00 [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to a linux interface for on access scanning Eric Paris
2008-08-04 22:32 ` [malware-list] " Greg KH
2008-08-05  0:26   ` Christoph Hellwig
2008-08-05  0:47     ` Eric Paris
2008-08-05  0:54       ` Christoph Hellwig
2008-08-05  5:49         ` Kyle Moffett
2008-08-05 12:32           ` Alan Cox
2008-08-05 11:31         ` Alan Cox
2008-08-05 14:06           ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-08-05 14:09             ` Alan Cox
2008-08-05 17:58           ` Nick Piggin
2008-08-06  2:41         ` Andi Kleen
2008-08-06 18:04           ` Rik van Riel
2008-08-05  0:32   ` Eric Paris
2008-08-05  0:35     ` Eric Paris
2008-08-05  0:51     ` Greg KH
2008-08-05 11:23       ` Alan Cox
2008-08-05 17:03         ` Greg KH
2008-08-05 18:56           ` Eric Paris
2008-08-05 20:30             ` Greg KH
2008-08-06 18:49               ` Eric Paris
2008-08-06 21:02                 ` Theodore Tso
2008-08-06 21:28                   ` Eric Paris
2008-08-06 21:52                     ` Theodore Tso
2008-08-07 14:16                       ` Eric Paris
2008-08-07 21:55                         ` David Wagner
2008-08-08  2:06                         ` Rene Herman
2008-08-08  2:15                           ` Eric Paris
2008-08-08  2:55                             ` Rene Herman
2008-08-08 11:58                               ` Press, Jonathan
2008-08-08 12:34                                 ` Rene Herman
2008-08-08 13:11                                   ` Press, Jonathan
2008-08-08 13:43                                     ` Rene Herman
2008-08-05 11:25       ` Alan Cox
2008-08-05 17:01         ` Greg KH
2008-08-05 20:36           ` Alan Cox
2008-08-05 19:46       ` Eric Paris
2008-08-05 20:15         ` Greg KH
2008-08-06  9:37           ` tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-06 15:25             ` Greg KH
2008-08-06 15:41               ` Eric Paris
2008-08-06 16:03               ` tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-06  9:28         ` tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-05 14:41     ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to a linux interface foron " Press, Jonathan
2008-08-05 14:56       ` Eric Paris
2008-08-05 16:37         ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to a linux interfaceforon " Press, Jonathan
2008-08-05 17:19           ` Eric Paris
2008-08-05 17:38             ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-05 17:29               ` Alan Cox
2008-08-05 18:02                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-05 20:12                   ` Alan Cox
2008-08-05 20:41                     ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-05 18:04               ` Press, Jonathan
2008-08-05 18:11                 ` Greg KH
2008-08-05 18:38                   ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to a linuxinterfaceforon " Press, Jonathan
2008-08-05 18:54                     ` Theodore Tso
2008-08-05 20:37                       ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to alinuxinterfaceforon " Press, Jonathan
2008-08-05 21:14                         ` Greg KH
2008-08-05 21:23                           ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to alinuxinterfaceforonaccess scanning Press, Jonathan
2008-08-05 21:42                             ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-05 21:44                             ` Greg KH
     [not found]                               ` <2629CC4E1D22A64593B02C43E855530303E21D47@USILMS12.ca.com>
2008-08-05 22:26                                 ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro toalinuxinterfaceforonaccess scanning Greg KH
2008-08-05 23:37                                   ` Al Viro
2008-08-05 23:48                                     ` Eric Paris
2008-08-05 23:57                                       ` Theodore Tso
2008-08-06  0:11                                       ` Greg KH
2008-08-06  0:25                                         ` Eric Paris
2008-08-06  0:46                                           ` Rik van Riel
2008-08-06  1:44                                             ` Theodore Tso
2008-08-08 10:48                                               ` [malware-list] Threat model for Unix Computers Jörg Ostertag
2008-08-08 22:26                                                 ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-09  1:21                                                 ` david
2008-08-09  1:44                                                 ` Ulrich Drepper
2008-08-05 23:55                                 ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro toalinuxinterfaceforonaccess scanning Theodore Tso
2008-08-06 10:25                                   ` Pavel Machek
2008-08-05 21:45                             ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to alinuxinterfaceforonaccess scanning Al Viro
2008-08-05 20:18                     ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to a linuxinterfaceforon access scanning Greg KH
2008-08-05 20:28                       ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to alinuxinterfaceforon " Press, Jonathan
2008-08-05 20:51                         ` Eric Paris
2008-08-05 21:08                           ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-06  0:51                     ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to a linuxinterfaceforon " Rik van Riel
2008-08-06 12:10                       ` Press, Jonathan
2008-08-06 12:38                         ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-06 13:11                           ` Press, Jonathan
2008-08-06 13:49                             ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-06 13:55                               ` Eric Paris
2008-08-06 14:11                                 ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-06 14:20                                   ` Serge E. Hallyn
2008-08-06 13:57                             ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-06 11:31                               ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to a linux interfaceforon " David Collier-Brown
2008-08-06 23:20                                 ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-06 13:44                         ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to a linuxinterfaceforon " Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-06 14:16                           ` tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-06 14:23                             ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-06 15:22                             ` Theodore Tso
2008-08-06 15:54                               ` tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-07  9:28                             ` Pavel Machek
2008-08-07 14:21                               ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-07 14:31                                 ` Eric Paris
2008-08-08  0:05                                   ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-08  5:17                                     ` James Morris
2008-08-06 15:08                         ` Theodore Tso
2008-08-06 15:33                           ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to alinuxinterfaceforon " Press, Jonathan
2008-08-06 15:46                             ` Rik van Riel [this message]
2008-08-06 16:12                               ` tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-06 16:25                                 ` Rik van Riel
2008-08-06 18:06                                   ` Eric Paris
2008-08-05 20:17                   ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to a linux interfaceforon " Alan Cox
2008-08-06  9:24                   ` tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-06 15:24                     ` Greg KH
2008-08-05 18:27                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-05 18:34                   ` Press, Jonathan
2008-08-05 18:38                     ` Greg KH
2008-08-05 20:15                       ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to a linuxinterfaceforon " Press, Jonathan
2008-08-05 20:26                         ` Greg KH
2008-08-06 10:05                           ` tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-06 10:50                             ` Adrian Bunk
2008-08-06 11:07                               ` tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-06 11:26                                 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-08-07  0:49                                   ` Mihai Donțu
2008-08-07  4:39                                     ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-11 13:45                                       ` Mihai Donțu
2008-08-11 13:56                                         ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-11 16:11                                           ` David Collier-Brown
2008-08-11 21:18                                             ` Press, Jonathan
2008-08-11 22:09                                               ` David Wagner
2008-08-12  7:32                                                 ` Alan Cox
2008-08-13 10:28                                               ` Pavel Machek
2008-08-13 10:46                                                 ` Press, Jonathan
2008-08-13 11:08                                                   ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-13 12:56                                                   ` Pavel Machek
2008-08-13 13:52                                                     ` tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-14 12:54                                                       ` Pavel Machek
2008-08-14 18:37                                                         ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to alinuxinterfaceforon " Press, Jonathan
2008-08-14 22:39                                                           ` Pavel Machek
2008-08-15  0:00                                                             ` Rik van Riel
2008-08-15  0:43                                                               ` Theodore Tso
2008-08-15  1:02                                                                 ` Rik van Riel
2008-08-15  3:00                                                                 ` Eric Paris
2008-08-15  5:22                                                                   ` david
2008-08-15  5:33                                                                     ` david
2008-08-15  5:38                                                                       ` david
2008-08-17 22:14                                                                     ` Pavel Machek
2008-08-17 22:12                                                                   ` Pavel Machek
2008-08-17 22:47                                                                     ` david
2008-08-17 22:58                                                                       ` Pavel Machek
2008-08-17 23:24                                                                         ` david
2008-08-18  0:00                                                                         ` Casey Schaufler
2008-08-18  0:17                                                                           ` david
2008-08-18  0:31                                                                             ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-18  0:39                                                                               ` david
2008-08-18  0:42                                                                             ` Casey Schaufler
2008-08-18  0:07                                                                         ` Rik van Riel
2008-08-19 10:41                                                                           ` Pavel Machek
2008-08-15  8:35                                                                 ` Alan Cox
2008-08-15 11:35                                                                   ` Theodore Tso
2008-08-15 12:57                                                                     ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to alinuxinterfaceforonaccess scanning Press, Jonathan
2008-08-15 13:16                                                                       ` Theodore Tso
2008-08-15 13:22                                                                         ` douglas.leeder
2008-08-15 13:28                                                                           ` douglas.leeder
2008-08-15 13:55                                                                           ` Theodore Tso
2008-08-15 14:19                                                                             ` douglas.leeder
2008-08-15 15:42                                                                             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-08-17 22:10                                                                   ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to alinuxinterfaceforon access scanning Pavel Machek
2008-08-13 13:58                                                     ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to a linuxinterfaceforon " Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-13 13:54                                                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-13 14:16                                                     ` tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-13 14:28                                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-13 15:19                                                         ` tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-14 12:56                                                       ` Pavel Machek
2008-08-14 20:06                                                         ` Alan Cox
2008-08-14 22:35                                                           ` Pavel Machek
2008-08-11 21:53                                             ` David Wagner
2008-08-11 21:45                                               ` Alan Cox
2008-08-14 10:48                                               ` David Collier-Brown
2008-08-06 15:00                                 ` Theodore Tso
2008-08-06 15:17                             ` Greg KH
2008-08-06 15:22                               ` Eric Paris
2008-08-05 20:38                         ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-05 20:54                           ` Eric Paris
2008-08-05 21:05                           ` Al Viro
2008-08-05 18:38                     ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to a linux interfaceforon " Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-05 18:39                   ` Eric Paris
2008-08-06  0:30                     ` Rik van Riel
2008-08-06  1:55                       ` Eric Paris
2008-08-06 11:40                     ` Sidebar to [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to a linux interface for on " David Collier-Brown
2008-08-06  0:22                 ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to a linux interfaceforon " Rik van Riel
2008-08-06  0:53                   ` jmorris
2008-08-06  2:46       ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to a linux interface foron " Andi Kleen
2008-08-06  8:39     ` [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to a linux interface for on " tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-05 11:21   ` Helge Hafting
2008-08-05 17:04     ` Greg KH
2008-08-05  2:49 ` Casey Schaufler
2008-08-05  3:01   ` Cliffe
2008-08-05  3:44     ` Casey Schaufler
2008-08-05  3:45       ` Cliffe
2008-08-05 20:56       ` Paul Moore
2008-08-06  3:00         ` Casey Schaufler
2008-08-06 14:18           ` Paul Moore
2008-08-07  0:49             ` Casey Schaufler
2008-08-05  3:46     ` Greg KH
2008-08-05  3:58       ` Cliffe
2008-08-05 12:05         ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-05 12:22       ` Alan Cox
2008-08-05 18:08 ` Nick Piggin
2008-08-06  9:44   ` [malware-list] " tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-06 11:10     ` Nick Piggin
2008-08-06 11:29       ` tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-06 16:57         ` Nick Piggin
2008-08-05 22:55 ` J. Bruce Fields
2008-08-06 10:09   ` [malware-list] " tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-06 22:24     ` David Wagner
2008-08-07  0:04       ` James Morris
2008-08-07 10:30         ` Alan Cox
2008-08-07 11:19       ` tvrtko.ursulin
2008-08-06  2:35 ` Andi Kleen
2008-08-06  3:43   ` Eric Paris
2008-08-06  3:52     ` Andi Kleen
2008-08-06 22:04 ` David Wagner
2008-08-18 14:06 ` John Moser
2008-08-15 10:10 [malware-list] [RFC 0/5] [TALPA] Intro to alinuxinterfaceforon " Rob Meijer
2008-08-15 11:02 ` Alan Cox
2008-08-15 12:22 Rob Meijer
2008-08-15 13:27 ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-15 17:31   ` david
2008-08-16  3:57     ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-16  4:09       ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-08-16  5:19         ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-16  9:39           ` Theodore Tso
2008-08-16 11:38             ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-16 15:17               ` Theodore Tso
2008-08-17  7:49                 ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-17  8:58                   ` david
2008-08-18  0:11                     ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-18  0:32                       ` david
2008-08-18  1:20                         ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-18 10:54                       ` douglas.leeder
2008-08-18 13:40                         ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-16  5:35         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-08-16  7:27           ` david
     [not found]         ` <alpine.DEB.1.10.0808152115210.12859@asgard.lang.hm>
2008-08-16  9:28           ` Alan Cox
2008-08-16 10:14             ` david
2008-08-17 21:17       ` David Collier-Brown
2008-08-18  1:33         ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-18  1:44           ` david
2008-08-18  2:33             ` Peter Dolding
2008-08-15 14:18 ` Alan Cox
2008-08-17 10:33 Rob Meijer
2008-08-17 10:46 ` david
2008-08-17 21:58   ` Pavel Machek
2008-08-17 22:30     ` david

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