From: Jason Cooper <jason@lakedaemon.net>
To: "jonsmirl@gmail.com" <jonsmirl@gmail.com>
Cc: Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Grant Likely <grant.likely@secretlab.ca>,
Rob Herring <robherring2@gmail.com>,
Olof Johansson <olof@lixom.net>,
"devicetree@vger.kernel.org" <devicetree@vger.kernel.org>,
"ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
<ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
Samuel Ortiz <sameo@linux.intel.com>,
Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
Domenico Andreoli <cavokz@gmail.com>,
"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Dave P Martin <Dave.Martin@arm.com>,
"linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org"
<linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>
Subject: Re: DT bindings as ABI [was: Do we have people interested in device tree janitoring / cleanup?]
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 07:38:09 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20130726113809.GB29916@titan.lakedaemon.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAKON4OwwOnP9kbN0JqR5L+F1svTucAQvz0RDwqU+Gy9UAFwHog@mail.gmail.com>
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 08:27:15PM -0400, jonsmirl@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Russell King - ARM Linux
> <linux@arm.linux.org.uk> wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 03:31:35PM -0400, Jason Cooper wrote:
> >> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 02:11:31PM -0500, Rob Herring wrote:
> >> > On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Olof Johansson <olof@lixom.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > > One problem that needs to be solved is obviously how a binding
> >> > > graduates from tentative to locked. This work isn't going to be very
> >> > > interesting to most people, I suspect. Think standards committee type
> >> > > work.
> >> >
> >> > I think a time based stabilization period would be better than a
> >> > separate directory to apply bindings too. Or time plus periodic review
> >> > perhaps.
> >>
> >> The only problem with a time-based versus separate directory is how do
> >> users who've downloaded the tree determine which bindings are stable?
> >> If they pull a tarball, or receive an SDK, there is most likely no git
> >> history attached.
> >>
> >> I think the idea of a 'tentative' directory (or 'locked') is churnish,
> >> but necessary. If I DL'd a tarball and had to type 'tentative' to get
> >> to the binding doc I wanted, that would be a pretty clear clue to be
> >> delicate about how I trust/use/plan with that binding.
> >
> > It's actually extremely simple. If the bindings are in development,
> > they must not appear in a -final released kernel. Anything that appears
> > in a -final kernel becomes part of the ABI at that point.
> >
> > That obviously does not mean you remove them in the last -rc and put
> > them back during the merge window!
> >
> > That's how we handle every other ABI thing in the kernel tree, why should
> > DT files be any different? (I've added Linus and Grant to this discussion.)
> >
> > As I've already stated, it is intended to eventually remove the DT files
> > from the kernel tree and have them as a separately maintained project,
> > which means they will be independent of the kernel version.
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>
> Having a schema system for the device trees is closely related to this
> discussion. In this case the schema would probably be equal to the
> stable set of nodes. This has been discussed before on the device tree
> mailing list. The dtc compiler would take this schema and validate the
> trees it compiles against it issuing warnings for 'non-standard'
> usage. Over time the schema would be updated to allow these usages
> when everyone agrees to it. Note that there would be a single schema
> describing all possible legal Linux device trees.
s/Linux// ?
> The scheme is also quite useful for new tree developers since it will
> show them the universe of device tree attributes that have already
> been standardized. By using comments, you could probably turn the
> device tree documentation into the schema source files.
One more note on schema, since DT is a description of hardware, it would
be useful to have two comments, a url to the datasheet, and a canonical
name of the datasheet suitable for $searchengine. Where available, of
course.
thx,
Jason.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-07-26 11:38 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 142+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-07-25 16:09 DT bindings as ABI [was: Do we have people interested in device tree janitoring / cleanup?] Olof Johansson
2013-07-25 17:57 ` Mark Rutland
2013-07-25 18:05 ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-25 18:25 ` Olof Johansson
2013-07-25 18:50 ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-25 19:30 ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Mark Brown
2013-07-25 18:29 ` Mark Rutland
2013-07-25 18:48 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-25 18:53 ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-25 21:41 ` Domenico Andreoli
2013-07-26 4:43 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-25 21:37 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-26 4:54 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-26 13:42 ` Rob Herring
2013-07-26 17:15 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-27 8:48 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27 10:40 ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Mark Brown
2013-07-27 17:37 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27 17:57 ` David Lang
2013-07-27 18:17 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-28 11:27 ` Mark Brown
2013-07-29 17:54 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-29 18:16 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-29 18:40 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-27 8:53 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27 10:20 ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-27 11:36 ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Mark Brown
2013-07-27 18:07 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-28 12:10 ` Mark Brown
2013-07-26 8:01 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-26 9:42 ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " David Woodhouse
2013-07-26 13:09 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-26 13:14 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-27 15:28 ` David Gibson
2013-07-26 13:27 ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26 13:38 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-26 13:45 ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26 13:50 ` David Woodhouse
2013-07-26 13:59 ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26 13:41 ` David Woodhouse
2013-07-26 13:47 ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26 14:14 ` jonsmirl
2013-07-26 14:16 ` David Woodhouse
2013-07-26 14:21 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-26 14:39 ` jonsmirl
2013-07-26 14:40 ` Mark Brown
2013-07-29 15:32 ` Matt Porter
2013-07-27 15:19 ` David Gibson
2013-07-27 19:37 ` Grant Likely
2013-07-27 9:16 ` Ming Lei
2013-07-26 14:10 ` Mark Brown
2013-07-26 15:49 ` Olof Johansson
2013-07-26 16:36 ` Rob Herring
2013-07-27 4:57 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27 5:04 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27 9:51 ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-27 10:24 ` Arend van Spriel
2013-07-27 10:34 ` Arend van Spriel
2013-07-27 11:09 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-27 10:36 ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-27 10:59 ` Arend van Spriel
2013-07-27 19:45 ` Grant Likely
2013-07-27 20:01 ` jonsmirl
2013-07-27 20:03 ` David Woodhouse
2013-07-27 20:25 ` Grant Likely
2013-07-28 3:28 ` Grant Likely
2013-07-28 5:11 ` James Bottomley
2013-07-28 5:13 ` Grant Likely
2013-07-30 1:44 ` David Gibson
2013-07-30 2:15 ` jonsmirl
2013-07-30 3:29 ` David Gibson
2013-07-30 4:35 ` Grant Likely
2013-07-30 8:39 ` Maxime Ripard
2013-07-30 16:30 ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-30 17:27 ` John W. Linville
2013-07-30 16:40 ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-29 9:19 ` Arend van Spriel
2013-07-29 10:16 ` Arend van Spriel
2013-07-27 18:31 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-27 18:51 ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-27 19:22 ` jonsmirl
2013-07-28 8:56 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-28 9:12 ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-28 13:19 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-28 13:39 ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-28 14:09 ` jonsmirl
2013-07-28 15:35 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-28 15:50 ` jonsmirl
2013-07-28 17:41 ` Mark Brown
2013-07-28 21:46 ` David Gibson
2013-07-28 15:30 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-29 7:31 ` Maxime Ripard
2013-07-29 18:38 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-29 18:51 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-29 18:05 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-29 18:27 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-29 22:20 ` David Gibson
2013-07-29 23:14 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2013-07-29 23:49 ` David Gibson
2013-07-31 10:37 ` Maxime Bizon
2013-07-31 10:59 ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-31 15:07 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-31 15:23 ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-31 19:12 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-31 19:29 ` Tomasz Figa
2013-07-31 20:00 ` Richard Cochran
2013-07-31 20:14 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-31 20:37 ` jonsmirl
2013-07-31 20:48 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-31 21:26 ` jonsmirl
2013-08-01 9:57 ` Arend van Spriel
2013-08-01 10:09 ` Mark Brown
2013-08-01 10:18 ` David Woodhouse
2013-08-01 13:34 ` jonsmirl
2013-08-01 13:43 ` jonsmirl
2013-08-01 13:48 ` Rob Herring
2013-08-02 3:50 ` David Gibson
2013-08-13 23:32 ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-08-14 1:49 ` Guenter Roeck
2013-08-14 14:46 ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-08-02 8:49 ` Tony Lindgren
2013-07-29 15:45 ` Matt Porter
2013-07-31 12:58 ` Ian Campbell
2013-07-25 17:59 ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-25 19:11 ` Rob Herring
2013-07-25 19:31 ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-25 20:04 ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Mark Brown
2013-07-25 20:08 ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-25 20:16 ` Rob Herring
2013-07-25 20:32 ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-25 21:53 ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Ben Hutchings
2013-07-26 0:36 ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-26 12:14 ` Jason Cooper
2013-07-26 0:34 ` Stephen Warren
2013-07-26 22:11 ` Rob Herring
2013-07-25 23:18 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2013-07-26 0:27 ` jonsmirl
2013-07-26 11:38 ` Jason Cooper [this message]
2013-07-26 14:08 ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " David Woodhouse
2013-07-26 13:57 ` Mark Brown
2013-07-26 10:55 ` Mark Brown
2013-07-28 4:39 ` Grant Likely
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