From: "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>
To: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, john.stultz@linaro.org,
sboyd@kernel.org, corbet@lwn.net, Mark.Rutland@arm.com,
maz@kernel.org, kernel-team@fb.com, neeraju@codeaurora.org,
ak@linux.intel.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v7 clocksource] Do not mark clocks unstable due to delays for v5.13
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 09:50:19 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20210411165019.GA4510@paulmck-ThinkPad-P17-Gen-1> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <875z0t2ilk.ffs@nanos.tec.linutronix.de>
On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 12:58:31PM +0200, Thomas Gleixner wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 10 2021 at 16:26, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 10, 2021 at 10:01:58AM +0200, Thomas Gleixner wrote:
> >> On Fri, Apr 02 2021 at 15:48, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> >> I buy the vCPU preemption part and TBH guests should not have that
> >> watchdog thing active at all for exactly this reason.
> >
> > Agreed, one approch is to enable the the clocksource watchdog only in
> > the hypervisor, and have some action on the guests triggered when the
> > host detects clock skew.
> >
> > This works quite well, at least until something breaks in a way that
> > messes up clock reads from the guest but not from the host. And I
> > am sure that any number of hardware guys will tell me that this just
> > isn't possible, but if failing hardware operated according to their
> > expectations, that hardware wouldn't be considered to be failing.
> > Or it wouldn't be hardware, firmware, or clock-driver bringup, as the
> > case may be.
>
> Don't tell me. The fact that this code exists at all is a horror on it's
> own.
Let's just say that really I did consider the option of just disabling
the watchdog for guest OSes, but it will likely be at least a few years
before per-CPU hardware clocks regain my trust. :-/
> >> SMI, NMI injecting 62.5ms delay? If that happens then the performance of
> >> the clocksource is the least of your worries.
> >
> > I was kind of hoping that you would tell me why the skew must be all the
> > way up to 62.5ms before the clock is disabled. The watchdog currently
> > is quite happy with more than 10% skew between clocks.
> >
> > 100HZ clocks or some such?
>
> Histerical raisins. When the clocksource watchdog was introduced it
> replaced a x86 specific validation which was jiffies based. I have faint
> memories that we wanted to have at least jiffies based checks preserved
> in absence of other hardware, which had other problems and we gave up on
> it. But obviously nobody thought about revisiting the threshold.
>
> Yes, it's way too big. The slowest watchdog frequency on x86 is ~3.5 Mhz
> (ACPI PMtimer). Don't know about the reference frequency on MIPS which
> is the only other user of this.
Whew! I will try reducing the permitted skew. My (perhaps naive) guess
is that with the delay rejection, there is no reason that it cannot
be decreased at least to 500us. If that goes well, I will send along
another patch.
Thanx, Paul
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-04-11 16:50 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 72+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-01-06 0:40 [PATCH RFC clocksource] Do not mark clocks unstable due to delays Paul E. McKenney
2021-01-06 0:41 ` [PATCH RFC clocksource 1/5] clocksource: Provide module parameters to inject delays in watchdog paulmck
2021-01-06 0:41 ` [PATCH RFC clocksource 2/5] clocksource: Retry clock read if long delays detected paulmck
2021-01-06 16:28 ` Rik van Riel
2021-01-06 19:53 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-01-06 20:59 ` Rik van Riel
2021-01-06 0:41 ` [PATCH RFC clocksource 3/5] clocksource: Check per-CPU clock synchronization when marked unstable paulmck
2021-01-06 0:41 ` [PATCH RFC clocksource 4/5] clocksource: Provide a module parameter to fuzz per-CPU clock checking paulmck
2021-01-06 0:41 ` [PATCH RFC clocksource 5/5] clocksource: Do pairwise clock-desynchronization checking paulmck
2021-01-12 0:42 ` [PATCH v2 clocksource] Do not mark clocks unstable due to delays Paul E. McKenney
2021-01-12 0:45 ` [PATCH v2 clocksource 1/5] clocksource: Provide module parameters to inject delays in watchdog paulmck
2021-01-12 0:45 ` [PATCH v2 clocksource 2/5] clocksource: Retry clock read if long delays detected paulmck
2021-01-12 0:45 ` [PATCH v2 clocksource 3/5] clocksource: Check per-CPU clock synchronization when marked unstable paulmck
2021-01-12 0:45 ` [PATCH v2 clocksource 4/5] clocksource: Provide a module parameter to fuzz per-CPU clock checking paulmck
2021-01-12 0:45 ` [PATCH v2 clocksource 5/5] clocksource: Do pairwise clock-desynchronization checking paulmck
2021-02-02 17:04 ` [PATCH v3 clocksource] Do not mark clocks unstable due to delays Paul E. McKenney
2021-02-02 17:06 ` [PATCH clocksource 1/5] clocksource: Provide module parameters to inject delays in watchdog paulmck
2021-02-02 17:06 ` [PATCH clocksource 2/5] clocksource: Retry clock read if long delays detected paulmck
2021-02-02 17:06 ` [PATCH clocksource 3/5] clocksource: Check per-CPU clock synchronization when marked unstable paulmck
2021-02-02 17:06 ` [PATCH clocksource 4/5] clocksource: Provide a module parameter to fuzz per-CPU clock checking paulmck
2021-02-02 19:51 ` Randy Dunlap
2021-02-03 0:50 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-02-03 1:31 ` Randy Dunlap
2021-02-03 1:40 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-02-02 17:06 ` [PATCH clocksource 5/5] clocksource: Do pairwise clock-desynchronization checking paulmck
2021-02-17 21:28 ` [PATCH v3 clocksource] Do not mark clocks unstable due to delays Paul E. McKenney
2021-02-17 21:29 ` [PATCH clocksource 1/5] clocksource: Provide module parameters to inject delays in watchdog paulmck
2021-02-17 21:29 ` [PATCH clocksource 2/5] clocksource: Retry clock read if long delays detected paulmck
2021-02-17 21:29 ` [PATCH clocksource 3/5] clocksource: Check per-CPU clock synchronization when marked unstable paulmck
2021-02-17 21:29 ` [PATCH clocksource 4/5] clocksource: Provide a module parameter to fuzz per-CPU clock checking paulmck
2021-02-17 21:29 ` [PATCH clocksource 5/5] clocksource: Do pairwise clock-desynchronization checking paulmck
2021-03-04 0:49 ` [PATCH v5 clocksource] Do not mark clocks unstable due to delays for v5.13 Paul E. McKenney
2021-03-04 0:53 ` [PATCH kernel/time 1/5] clocksource: Provide module parameters to inject delays in watchdog paulmck
2021-03-04 0:53 ` [PATCH kernel/time 2/5] clocksource: Retry clock read if long delays detected paulmck
2021-03-04 0:53 ` [PATCH kernel/time 3/5] clocksource: Check per-CPU clock synchronization when marked unstable paulmck
2021-03-04 0:53 ` [PATCH kernel/time 4/5] clocksource: Provide a module parameter to fuzz per-CPU clock checking paulmck
2021-03-04 0:53 ` [PATCH kernel/time 5/5] clocksource: Do pairwise clock-desynchronization checking paulmck
2021-04-02 20:29 ` [PATCH v5 clocksource] Do not mark clocks unstable due to delays for v5.13 Paul E. McKenney
2021-04-02 20:31 ` [PATCH v6 clocksource] Do not mark clocks unstable dueclocksource: Provide module parameters to inject delays in watchdog paulmck
2021-04-02 22:22 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-02 22:37 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-04-02 22:48 ` [PATCH v7 clocksource] Do not mark clocks unstable due to delays for v5.13 Paul E. McKenney
2021-04-02 22:49 ` [PATCH v7 clocksource 1/5] clocksource: Provide module parameters to inject delays in watchdog paulmck
2021-04-02 22:49 ` [PATCH v7 clocksource 2/5] clocksource: Retry clock read if long delays detected paulmck
2021-04-10 8:41 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-10 23:50 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-04-02 22:49 ` [PATCH v7 clocksource 3/5] clocksource: Check per-CPU clock synchronization when marked unstable paulmck
2021-04-10 9:00 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-11 0:20 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-04-11 10:33 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-11 16:46 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-04-12 4:21 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-04-12 13:08 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-12 18:20 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-04-12 18:54 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-12 19:57 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-04-12 20:37 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-12 23:18 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-04-13 20:49 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-14 4:48 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-04-02 22:49 ` [PATCH v7 clocksource 4/5] clocksource: Provide a module parameter to fuzz per-CPU clock checking paulmck
2021-04-02 22:49 ` [PATCH v7 clocksource 5/5] clocksource: Do pairwise clock-desynchronization checking paulmck
2021-04-10 9:04 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-11 0:21 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-04-10 8:01 ` [PATCH v7 clocksource] Do not mark clocks unstable due to delays for v5.13 Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-10 23:26 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-04-11 10:58 ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-11 16:50 ` Paul E. McKenney [this message]
2021-04-02 20:31 ` [PATCH v6 clocksource] Do not mark clocks unstable dueclocksource: Retry clock read if long delays detected paulmck
2021-04-02 20:31 ` [PATCH v6 clocksource] Do not mark clocks unstable dueclocksource: Check per-CPU clock synchronization when marked unstable paulmck
2021-04-02 20:31 ` [PATCH v6 clocksource] Do not mark clocks unstable dueclocksource: Provide a module parameter to fuzz per-CPU clock checking paulmck
2021-04-02 20:31 ` [PATCH v6 clocksource] Do not mark clocks unstable dueclocksource: Do pairwise clock-desynchronization checking paulmck
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=20210411165019.GA4510@paulmck-ThinkPad-P17-Gen-1 \
--to=paulmck@kernel.org \
--cc=Mark.Rutland@arm.com \
--cc=ak@linux.intel.com \
--cc=corbet@lwn.net \
--cc=john.stultz@linaro.org \
--cc=kernel-team@fb.com \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=maz@kernel.org \
--cc=neeraju@codeaurora.org \
--cc=sboyd@kernel.org \
--cc=tglx@linutronix.de \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).