* Another possible use for LKMM, or a subset (strengthening) thereof
@ 2021-10-07 20:56 Paul E. McKenney
2021-10-18 22:53 ` Paul E. McKenney
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Paul E. McKenney @ 2021-10-07 20:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: stern, parri.andrea, will, peterz, boqun.feng, npiggin, dhowells,
j.alglave, luc.maranget, akiyks, dlustig, joel
Cc: linux-kernel, linux-arch
Hello!
On the perhaps unlikely chance that this is new news of interest...
I have finally prototyped the full "So You Want to Rust the Linux
Kernel?" series (as in marked "under construction").
https://paulmck.livejournal.com/62436.html
Thanx, Paul
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Another possible use for LKMM, or a subset (strengthening) thereof
2021-10-07 20:56 Another possible use for LKMM, or a subset (strengthening) thereof Paul E. McKenney
@ 2021-10-18 22:53 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-10-18 23:56 ` Boqun Feng
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Paul E. McKenney @ 2021-10-18 22:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: stern, parri.andrea, will, peterz, boqun.feng, npiggin, dhowells,
j.alglave, luc.maranget, akiyks, dlustig, joel
Cc: linux-kernel, linux-arch
On Thu, Oct 07, 2021 at 01:56:21PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> Hello!
>
> On the perhaps unlikely chance that this is new news of interest...
>
> I have finally prototyped the full "So You Want to Rust the Linux
> Kernel?" series (as in marked "under construction").
>
> https://paulmck.livejournal.com/62436.html
And this blog series is now proclaimed to be feature complete.
Recommendations (both short- and long-term) may be found in the last post,
"TL;DR: Memory-Model Recommendations for Rusting the Linux Kernel",
at https://paulmck.livejournal.com/65341.html.
Thoughts?
Thanx, Paul
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Another possible use for LKMM, or a subset (strengthening) thereof
2021-10-18 22:53 ` Paul E. McKenney
@ 2021-10-18 23:56 ` Boqun Feng
2021-10-19 0:07 ` Paul E. McKenney
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Boqun Feng @ 2021-10-18 23:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Paul E. McKenney
Cc: stern, parri.andrea, will, peterz, npiggin, dhowells, j.alglave,
luc.maranget, akiyks, dlustig, joel, linux-kernel, linux-arch
Hi Paul,
On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 03:53:13PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 07, 2021 at 01:56:21PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > Hello!
> >
> > On the perhaps unlikely chance that this is new news of interest...
> >
> > I have finally prototyped the full "So You Want to Rust the Linux
> > Kernel?" series (as in marked "under construction").
> >
> > https://paulmck.livejournal.com/62436.html
>
> And this blog series is now proclaimed to be feature complete.
>
> Recommendations (both short- and long-term) may be found in the last post,
> "TL;DR: Memory-Model Recommendations for Rusting the Linux Kernel",
> at https://paulmck.livejournal.com/65341.html.
>
Thanks for putting this together! For the short-term recommendations, I
think one practical goal would be having the equivalent (or stronger)
litmus tests in Rust for the ones in tools/memory-model/litmus-tests.
The translation of litmus tests may be trivial, but it at least ensure
us that Rust can support the existing patterns widely used in Linux
kernel. Of course, the Rust litmus tests don't have to be able to run
with herd, we just need some code snippest to check our understanding of
Rust memory model. ;-)
Besides, it's interesting to how things react with each if one function
in the litmus test is in Rust and the other is in C ;-) Maybe this is a
long-term goal.
Thoughts?
Regards,
Boqun
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanx, Paul
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Another possible use for LKMM, or a subset (strengthening) thereof
2021-10-18 23:56 ` Boqun Feng
@ 2021-10-19 0:07 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-10-19 2:28 ` Boqun Feng
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Paul E. McKenney @ 2021-10-19 0:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Boqun Feng
Cc: stern, parri.andrea, will, peterz, npiggin, dhowells, j.alglave,
luc.maranget, akiyks, dlustig, joel, linux-kernel, linux-arch
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 07:56:35AM +0800, Boqun Feng wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 03:53:13PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 07, 2021 at 01:56:21PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > On the perhaps unlikely chance that this is new news of interest...
> > >
> > > I have finally prototyped the full "So You Want to Rust the Linux
> > > Kernel?" series (as in marked "under construction").
> > >
> > > https://paulmck.livejournal.com/62436.html
> >
> > And this blog series is now proclaimed to be feature complete.
> >
> > Recommendations (both short- and long-term) may be found in the last post,
> > "TL;DR: Memory-Model Recommendations for Rusting the Linux Kernel",
> > at https://paulmck.livejournal.com/65341.html.
>
> Thanks for putting this together! For the short-term recommendations, I
> think one practical goal would be having the equivalent (or stronger)
> litmus tests in Rust for the ones in tools/memory-model/litmus-tests.
> The translation of litmus tests may be trivial, but it at least ensure
> us that Rust can support the existing patterns widely used in Linux
> kernel. Of course, the Rust litmus tests don't have to be able to run
> with herd, we just need some code snippest to check our understanding of
> Rust memory model. ;-)
It would be very helpful for klitmus to be able to check Rust-code memory
ordering, now that you mention it! This would be useful (for example)
to test the Rust wrappers on weakly ordered systems, such as ARM's.
> Besides, it's interesting to how things react with each if one function
> in the litmus test is in Rust and the other is in C ;-) Maybe this is a
> long-term goal.
>
> Thoughts?
These issues are quite important. How do you feel that they should be
tracked?
Thanx, Paul
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Another possible use for LKMM, or a subset (strengthening) thereof
2021-10-19 0:07 ` Paul E. McKenney
@ 2021-10-19 2:28 ` Boqun Feng
2021-10-19 3:50 ` Paul E. McKenney
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Boqun Feng @ 2021-10-19 2:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Paul E. McKenney
Cc: stern, parri.andrea, will, peterz, npiggin, dhowells, j.alglave,
luc.maranget, akiyks, dlustig, joel, linux-kernel, linux-arch
On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 05:07:29PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 07:56:35AM +0800, Boqun Feng wrote:
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 03:53:13PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > > On Thu, Oct 07, 2021 at 01:56:21PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > > > Hello!
> > > >
> > > > On the perhaps unlikely chance that this is new news of interest...
> > > >
> > > > I have finally prototyped the full "So You Want to Rust the Linux
> > > > Kernel?" series (as in marked "under construction").
> > > >
> > > > https://paulmck.livejournal.com/62436.html
> > >
> > > And this blog series is now proclaimed to be feature complete.
> > >
> > > Recommendations (both short- and long-term) may be found in the last post,
> > > "TL;DR: Memory-Model Recommendations for Rusting the Linux Kernel",
> > > at https://paulmck.livejournal.com/65341.html.
> >
> > Thanks for putting this together! For the short-term recommendations, I
> > think one practical goal would be having the equivalent (or stronger)
> > litmus tests in Rust for the ones in tools/memory-model/litmus-tests.
> > The translation of litmus tests may be trivial, but it at least ensure
> > us that Rust can support the existing patterns widely used in Linux
> > kernel. Of course, the Rust litmus tests don't have to be able to run
> > with herd, we just need some code snippest to check our understanding of
> > Rust memory model. ;-)
>
> It would be very helpful for klitmus to be able to check Rust-code memory
> ordering, now that you mention it! This would be useful (for example)
> to test the Rust wrappers on weakly ordered systems, such as ARM's.
>
Right.
> > Besides, it's interesting to how things react with each if one function
> > in the litmus test is in Rust and the other is in C ;-) Maybe this is a
> > long-term goal.
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
> These issues are quite important. How do you feel that they should be
> tracked?
>
Yep, it's already in my list. I created a small repo to track all issues
I know about LKMM for Rust:
https://github.com/fbq/lkmm-for-rust
It's still under construction, but I put the litmus test thing in that
list.
Regards,
Boqun
> Thanx, Paul
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Another possible use for LKMM, or a subset (strengthening) thereof
2021-10-19 2:28 ` Boqun Feng
@ 2021-10-19 3:50 ` Paul E. McKenney
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Paul E. McKenney @ 2021-10-19 3:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Boqun Feng
Cc: stern, parri.andrea, will, peterz, npiggin, dhowells, j.alglave,
luc.maranget, akiyks, dlustig, joel, linux-kernel, linux-arch
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 10:28:04AM +0800, Boqun Feng wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 05:07:29PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 07:56:35AM +0800, Boqun Feng wrote:
> > > Hi Paul,
> > >
> > > On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 03:53:13PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Oct 07, 2021 at 01:56:21PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > > > > Hello!
> > > > >
> > > > > On the perhaps unlikely chance that this is new news of interest...
> > > > >
> > > > > I have finally prototyped the full "So You Want to Rust the Linux
> > > > > Kernel?" series (as in marked "under construction").
> > > > >
> > > > > https://paulmck.livejournal.com/62436.html
> > > >
> > > > And this blog series is now proclaimed to be feature complete.
> > > >
> > > > Recommendations (both short- and long-term) may be found in the last post,
> > > > "TL;DR: Memory-Model Recommendations for Rusting the Linux Kernel",
> > > > at https://paulmck.livejournal.com/65341.html.
> > >
> > > Thanks for putting this together! For the short-term recommendations, I
> > > think one practical goal would be having the equivalent (or stronger)
> > > litmus tests in Rust for the ones in tools/memory-model/litmus-tests.
> > > The translation of litmus tests may be trivial, but it at least ensure
> > > us that Rust can support the existing patterns widely used in Linux
> > > kernel. Of course, the Rust litmus tests don't have to be able to run
> > > with herd, we just need some code snippest to check our understanding of
> > > Rust memory model. ;-)
> >
> > It would be very helpful for klitmus to be able to check Rust-code memory
> > ordering, now that you mention it! This would be useful (for example)
> > to test the Rust wrappers on weakly ordered systems, such as ARM's.
> >
>
> Right.
>
> > > Besides, it's interesting to how things react with each if one function
> > > in the litmus test is in Rust and the other is in C ;-) Maybe this is a
> > > long-term goal.
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> >
> > These issues are quite important. How do you feel that they should be
> > tracked?
> >
>
> Yep, it's already in my list. I created a small repo to track all issues
> I know about LKMM for Rust:
>
> https://github.com/fbq/lkmm-for-rust
>
> It's still under construction, but I put the litmus test thing in that
> list.
Very good, thank you!
Thanx, Paul
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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2021-10-07 20:56 Another possible use for LKMM, or a subset (strengthening) thereof Paul E. McKenney
2021-10-18 22:53 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-10-18 23:56 ` Boqun Feng
2021-10-19 0:07 ` Paul E. McKenney
2021-10-19 2:28 ` Boqun Feng
2021-10-19 3:50 ` Paul E. McKenney
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