From: Hans Reiser <reiser@namesys.com>
To: Anton Altaparmakov <aia21@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: Nathan Scott <nathans@sgi.com>,
Andreas Gruenbacher <ag@bestbits.at>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
linux-xfs@oss.sgi.com
Subject: Re: reiser4 (was Re: [PATCH] Revised extended attributes interface)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 02:59:09 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3C169DCD.8060806@namesys.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96.1011211225917.17160A-100000@libra.cus.cam.ac.uk>
Anton Altaparmakov wrote:
>
>I was just stating a fact of how they are stored on NTFS, again something
>I have no power to change.
>
But does NTFS specificism/cripplism belong in VFS? (I in no way blame
you for NTFS's design:-) )
>>Well, gosh, okay, maybe you want to prepend ',,' to streams and '..' to
>>extended attributes. I personally think Linux would only want to do so
>>when used as a fileserver emulating NTFS/SAMBA. There is no enhancement
>>of user functionality from doing it for general purpose filesystems.
>>
>
>Just wait until this functionality is available and watch all GUI things
>start to use it en masse! I don't doubt that GNOME/KDE/replace with your
>favourite window manager are going to hesitate to start putting in the
>icon, the name, and whatnot inside EAs or inside named streams the instant
>they are ubiquitously available and I think that makes a lot of sense too.
>No doubt I will get flamed for saying this but all flames go to
>/dev/null...
>
>Both MacOS and as of recently Windows do this kind of stuff, too, and it
>can't be long before Linux goes the same way, provided file systems
>support the required features (i.e. EAs and/or named streams) so I
>disagree with you this is only a compatibility thing. It might start out
>as one but it will find real world applications very quickly...
>
I am not saying that the features of EAs are not useful, I am saying
that I want to choose them
individually for particular files.
It could be so much better to have EDIBLE_PIZZA (example from previous
email)
instead of just PIZZA, sigh.
>
>
>
>>>
>>Programs will get written to use your API, and not work with reiserfs,
>>and will get written to use our API and not work with NTFS, and this is
>>bad....
>>
>
>Now that is true. And yes, it is bad. However it will be up to the
>community to decide which API to use and at the moment there are several
>fs using the "bestbits" API and only reiserfs (?) the "reiserfs" one...
>And we all know from our very own $Deity that we don't design software, we
>just write things and let evolution decide which is better. (((-;
>
Fortunately he isn't entirely consistent on this point.:-)
I predict you guys will ship first and get a lot of usage, and then we
will ship later with more features,
and the result will be a mess for users. This is the usual evolutionary
design standards mess.
Objectively, I understand it is highly reasonable for the Linux
community to assume that what we
implement will be horrible until we finish it. I would encourage it to
assume that someone else
will eventually get orthogonalism right though, and I think it would be
worth waiting for it, because
these are the sorts of design features that stick around for 30 years.
I don't really expect that most
folks will choose to wait though.
Best to all,
Hans
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2001-12-12 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 61+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2001-12-05 3:32 [PATCH] Revised extended attributes interface Nathan Scott
2001-12-05 9:08 ` Anton Altaparmakov
2001-12-06 5:46 ` Nathan Scott
2001-12-06 3:05 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-12-06 5:41 ` Nathan Scott
2001-12-06 15:25 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-12-06 23:15 ` Nathan Scott
2001-12-07 1:45 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-12-07 2:03 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-12-07 3:51 ` Nathan Scott
2001-12-07 20:20 ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2001-12-08 4:58 ` Nathan Scott
2001-12-08 20:17 ` Hans Reiser
2001-12-11 2:42 ` reiser4 (was Re: [PATCH] Revised extended attributes interface) Nathan Scott
2001-12-11 12:02 ` Hans Reiser
2001-12-11 19:23 ` Anton Altaparmakov
2001-12-11 20:14 ` reiser4 (was Re: [PATCH] Revised extended attributesinterface) curtis
2001-12-11 21:34 ` Hans Reiser
2001-12-11 23:04 ` curtis
2001-12-11 23:28 ` Hans Reiser
2001-12-11 23:46 ` Anton Altaparmakov
2001-12-12 1:00 ` curtis
2001-12-11 21:21 ` reiser4 (was Re: [PATCH] Revised extended attributes interface) Hans Reiser
2001-12-11 23:33 ` Anton Altaparmakov
2001-12-11 23:59 ` Hans Reiser [this message]
2001-12-12 2:16 ` Anton Altaparmakov
2001-12-12 12:02 ` Hans Reiser
2001-12-12 13:34 ` Anton Altaparmakov
2001-12-12 15:40 ` Hans Reiser
2001-12-13 1:43 ` Andrew Pimlott
2001-12-13 9:23 ` Hans Reiser
2001-12-13 10:36 ` User-manageable sub-ids proposals Romano Giannetti
2001-12-13 13:37 ` Ragnar Kjørstad
2001-12-13 16:06 ` Romano Giannetti
2001-12-13 18:58 ` Ragnar Kjørstad
2001-12-18 0:17 ` Pavel Machek
2001-12-13 23:24 ` David Wagner
2001-12-21 21:28 ` Andreas Ferber
2001-12-13 15:27 ` reiser4 (was Re: [PATCH] Revised extended attributes interface) Andrew Pimlott
2001-12-13 20:47 ` Hans Reiser
2001-12-13 21:01 ` Anton Altaparmakov
2001-12-10 11:52 ` [PATCH] Revised extended attributes interface Stephen C. Tweedie
2001-12-10 15:00 ` Peter J. Braam
2001-12-10 15:56 ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2001-12-10 16:00 ` Mr. James W. Laferriere
2001-12-10 16:15 ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2001-12-10 19:01 ` John Stoffel
2001-12-11 1:22 ` Timothy Shimmin
2001-12-11 11:33 ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2001-12-11 15:15 ` Implementing POSIX ACLs - was: " Anton Altaparmakov
2001-12-11 1:41 ` Nathan Scott
2001-12-11 13:47 ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2001-12-11 18:23 ` Hans Reiser
2001-12-11 18:46 ` Anton Altaparmakov
2001-12-11 23:37 ` Implementing POSIX ACLs - was " Nathan Scott
2001-12-11 13:30 ` Implementing POSIX ACLs - was: " Anton Altaparmakov
2001-12-11 14:34 ` Stephen C. Tweedie
[not found] <20011214051604.723C52B54A@marcus.pants.nu>
2001-12-14 11:10 ` reiser4 (was Re: [PATCH] Revised extended attributes interface) Hans Reiser
2001-12-14 15:06 ` dmeyer
2001-12-14 21:23 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2001-12-14 18:27 ` Brad Boyer
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