* Re: fsb of older cpu [not found] <A6974D8E5F98D511BB910002A50A6647615F47CB@hdsmsx402.hd.intel.com> @ 2004-03-09 6:58 ` Len Brown 2004-03-09 11:16 ` Bjoern Schmidt 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Len Brown @ 2004-03-09 6:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bjoern Schmidt; +Cc: linux-kernel C-states should be called Idle-states -- they're entered when the processor is idle. No instructions are executed when in a C-state > 0. C1 is supported by all processors automatically with some carefully placed insructions inside the idle loop. Not all processors suport higher C-states with more power savings in idle. You'll be able to tell what is supported and what is used by looking in /proc/acpi/CPU0/power. I'm not sure we update the counter to reflect entering C1... Then there are P-states -- performance states. These are used by the various cpufreq drivers such as speed-step(tm;-). These can modulate both voltage and Mhz at the same time depending on load and are thus the most effective and most desireable way to save cpu power w/ minimal performance impact. Thermal throttling is something else. This is invoked as the passive-colling method of last resort when the processor is very hot (busy). The actual clock to the processor is modulated so that it slows down and thus power is saved in proportion to how much it is slowed down. Throttling will noticeably slow down your system when you want it fast the most -- heavy load. Of course, then there is active cooling -- fan control... cheers, -Len On Mon, 2004-03-08 at 16:53, Bjoern Schmidt wrote: > Stefan Smietanowski schrieb: > > I'm no expert on the subject but as I recall the processor sets the > > internal clock (derived from fsb+multiplier) on startup so no matter > > what you do do the running cpu it won't change it. > > I think there must be a way. In the BIOS there ist an option "half > processor > clock it is in idle". One time i have seen in /proc/cpuinfo" that the > clock > was at ~118MHz, but that is 6 Month ago and i have this never seen > again... > The problem is that with activated acpi the passive cooling does not > seem to > work although the cpu is very often in C2 and throttling mode is at 8. > C1 is > called extrem rarely (~1000 times per day), even if the system is > under heavy > load for a long time. I believe that C2 is not really supported by the > cpu. > > -- > Greetings > Bjoern Schmidt > > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe > linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: fsb of older cpu 2004-03-09 6:58 ` fsb of older cpu Len Brown @ 2004-03-09 11:16 ` Bjoern Schmidt 2004-03-09 11:35 ` Stefan Smietanowski 2004-03-10 4:17 ` Len Brown 0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Bjoern Schmidt @ 2004-03-09 11:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: len.brown; +Cc: linux-kernel Hello Len, > C-states should be called Idle-states -- they're entered when the > processor is idle. No instructions are executed when in a C-state > 0. i know about the acpi spec ;) > > C1 is supported by all processors automatically with some carefully > placed insructions inside the idle loop. Not all processors suport > higher C-states with more power savings in idle. You'll be able to tell > what is supported and what is used by looking in /proc/acpi/CPU0/power. > I'm not sure we update the counter to reflect entering C1... The supported modes are: root@kilobyte:/proc/acpi/processor/C097# cat power active state: C2 default state: C1 bus master activity: 00000000 states: C1: promotion[C2] demotion[--] latency[000] usage[00000240] *C2: promotion[--] demotion[C1] latency[100] usage[169083068] C3: <not supported> Do you know a little program to visualize the fadt flags in a human readable way? > > Then there are P-states -- performance states. These are used by the > various cpufreq drivers such as speed-step(tm;-). These can modulate > both voltage and Mhz at the same time depending on load and are thus the > most effective and most desireable way to save cpu power w/ minimal > performance impact. In the BIOS there is an option to half the core freq in idle, is it possible to create a proc interface to set it statically to the half? In the System Programming Guide i can read that i can reprogram the clock multiplier by setting RESET# to low and A20M#, IGNNE#, LINT[1] and LINT[0] to 1111 for 1/2. Unfortunately i dont know how to program this in assembler code, i can several programming languages, but not yet asm :( Can you recommend a good online book? > > Thermal throttling is something else. This is invoked as the > passive-colling method of last resort when the processor is very hot > (busy). The actual clock to the processor is modulated so that it slows > down and thus power is saved in proportion to how much it is slowed > down. Throttling will noticeably slow down your system when you want it > fast the most -- heavy load. On my system the passive cooling is always active, but i am sure that it does not work or at least not correctly. root@kilobyte:/tmp# cat /proc/acpi/processor/C097/throttling state count: 8 active state: T7 states: T0: 00% T1: 12% T2: 25% T3: 37% T4: 50% T5: 62% T6: 75% *T7: 87% T7 equals that only 13% of performance ist available, but i cannot determine any slowdown on my system. root@kilobyte:/tmp# cat /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/C105/* cooling mode: passive <polling disabled> state: passive temperature: 91 C critical (S5): 95 C passive: 48 C: tc1=1 tc2=2 tsp=200 devices=0xc11dc6a8 active[0]: 94 C: devices=0xc11d5268 active[1]: 92 C: devices=0xc11d4be8 If throttling is active, how is it possible that the temperature is so high? The current load average is 0.00, 0.04, 0.07. The system is only under heavy load every day 6:40am for one hour. The trip_points are usually 95:0:48:70:65. I set them to these high values to test how hot the cpu can get with activated passive cooling and without fan-cooling. > > Of course, then there is active cooling -- fan control... I prefer passive cooling because i want to avoid that the fan will ever be turned on. -- Mit freundlichen Gruessen Bjoern Schmidt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: fsb of older cpu 2004-03-09 11:16 ` Bjoern Schmidt @ 2004-03-09 11:35 ` Stefan Smietanowski 2004-03-09 12:07 ` Bjoern Schmidt 2004-03-10 4:17 ` Len Brown 1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Stefan Smietanowski @ 2004-03-09 11:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bjoern Schmidt; +Cc: len.brown, linux-kernel Hi Bjoern. > In the System Programming Guide i can read that i can reprogram the > clock multiplier by setting RESET# to low and A20M#, IGNNE#, LINT[1] > and LINT[0] to 1111 for 1/2. Unfortunately i dont know how to > program this in assembler code, i can several programming > languages, but not yet asm :( > Can you recommend a good online book? Think for a moment what happens when you pull RESET# low :) It... resets the chip thereby resetting the computer. It also (as far as I know) can't be pulled low by software. Neither can the other pins. // Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: fsb of older cpu 2004-03-09 11:35 ` Stefan Smietanowski @ 2004-03-09 12:07 ` Bjoern Schmidt 0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Bjoern Schmidt @ 2004-03-09 12:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Smietanowski; +Cc: len.brown, linux-kernel Stefan Smietanowski schrieb: > Hi Bjoern. > >> In the System Programming Guide i can read that i can reprogram the >> clock multiplier by setting RESET# to low and A20M#, IGNNE#, LINT[1] >> and LINT[0] to 1111 for 1/2. Unfortunately i dont know how to >> program this in assembler code, i can several programming >> languages, but not yet asm :( >> Can you recommend a good online book? > > > Think for a moment what happens when you pull RESET# low :) > > It... resets the chip thereby resetting the computer. Ooops, you are right. I should better read the whole manual. Sorry for asking stupid questions... Greetings Bjoern Schmidt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: fsb of older cpu 2004-03-09 11:16 ` Bjoern Schmidt 2004-03-09 11:35 ` Stefan Smietanowski @ 2004-03-10 4:17 ` Len Brown 2004-03-11 13:53 ` [BUG] " Bjoern Schmidt 2004-03-14 15:11 ` Bjoern Schmidt 1 sibling, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Len Brown @ 2004-03-10 4:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bjoern Schmidt; +Cc: linux-kernel > root@kilobyte:/proc/acpi/processor/C097# cat power > active state: C2 > default state: C1 > bus master activity: 00000000 > states: > C1: promotion[C2] demotion[--] latency[000] usage[00000240] > *C2: promotion[--] demotion[C1] latency[100] usage[169083068] > C3: <not supported> latency is in microseconds. 100 is the highest latency C2 can have w/o being disabled entirely. (eg. my laptop has C2 latency of 1, and C3 latency of 85) Though it is not uncommon for desktop chips to not support C2 at all... > Do you know a little program to visualize the fadt flags in a human > readable way? # cat /proc/acpi/fadt | ~lenb/bin/acpitbl where acpitbl is a script in pmtools: http://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/lenb/acpi/utils/ will print something like this, which depending on the human, is readable;-) Signature: FACP Length: 132 Revision: 0x02 Checksum: 0x58 OEMID: TOSHIB OEM Table ID: 750 OEM Revision: 0x20030101 Creator ID: TASM Creator Revision: 0x04010000 FIRMWARE_CTRL: 0x000eee00 DSDT: 0x1ffd0114 INT_MODEL: 0x00 SCI_INT: 9 SMI_CMD: 0x000000b2 ACPI_ENABLE: 0x71 ACPI_DISABLE: 0x70 S4BIOS_REQ: 0x72 PM1a_EVT_BLK: 0x0000d800 PM1b_EVT_BLK: 0x00000000 PM1a_CNT_BLK: 0x0000d804 PM1b_CNT_BLK: 0x00000000 PM2_CNT_BLK: 0x0000d820 PM_TMR_BLK: 0x0000d808 GPE0_BLK: 0x0000d828 GPE1_BLK: 0x00000000 PM1_EVT_LEN: 4 PM1_CNT_LEN: 2 PM2_CNT_LEN: 1 PM_TM_LEN: 4 GPE0_BLK_LEN: 8 GPE1_BLK_LEN: 0 GPE1_BASE: 0 P_LVL2_LAT: 1 P_LVL3_LAT: 85 FLUSH_SIZE: 0 FLUSH_STRIDE: 0 DUTY_OFFSET: 1 DUTY_WIDTH: 0 DAY_ALRM: 0x0d MON_ALRM: 0x7e CENTURY: 0x00 Flags: 0x000004a5 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* [BUG] Re: fsb of older cpu 2004-03-10 4:17 ` Len Brown @ 2004-03-11 13:53 ` Bjoern Schmidt 2004-03-14 15:11 ` Bjoern Schmidt 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Bjoern Schmidt @ 2004-03-11 13:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Len Brown; +Cc: linux-kernel Hello Len, i think that the fadt of my laptop is buggy, but i am not sure. The fadt tells a C2 latency of 100 and a C3 latency of 300. C3 is disabled in drivers/acpi/processor.c because type-f DMA is set. C2 is enabled and seems to be used, but has no effects on pm. Thottling seems to have no effects too. The temperature of the cpu rises fast until one of the active or S-state trip-points is reached, in the worst case the systems goes to S5. Now i have set the C2 valid flag statically to "0" in the sources (driver/acpi/processor.c). cat /proc/acpi/processor/.../info tells that pm is not supported anymore, and throttling seems to work now. The temperature of the cpu settled down to the aimed trip-point of 58 dC. Can you comfirm that this behaviour is a result of a buggy fadt, or could it be that there is a bug in the kernels acpi? Do you know if a PII Deschutes is C2 capable? In the acpi specification i can see that the programming model for c2 state is "Fixed Hardware Control Logic" which is integrated into the external chipset. Is the chipset the only dependency for c2-state, or is the processor a dependency too? I think so, of course, but its not clearly enough for me... Greetings Bjoern Schmidt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* [BUG] Re: fsb of older cpu 2004-03-10 4:17 ` Len Brown 2004-03-11 13:53 ` [BUG] " Bjoern Schmidt @ 2004-03-14 15:11 ` Bjoern Schmidt 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Bjoern Schmidt @ 2004-03-14 15:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Len Brown; +Cc: linux-kernel, Bjoern Schmidt Hello Len, i think that the fadt of my laptop is buggy, but i am not sure. The fadt tells a C2 latency of 100 and a C3 latency of 300. C3 is disabled in drivers/acpi/processor.c because type-f DMA is set. C2 is enabled and seems to be used, but has no effects on pm. Thottling seems to have no effects too. The temperature of the cpu rises fast until one of the active or S-state trip-points is reached, in the worst case the systems goes to S5. Now i have set the C2 valid flag statically to "0" in the sources (driver/acpi/processor.c). cat /proc/acpi/processor/.../info tells that pm is not supported anymore, and throttling seems to work now. The temperature of the cpu settled down to the aimed trip-point of 58 dC. Can you comfirm that this behaviour is a result of a buggy fadt, or could it be that there is a bug in the kernels acpi? Do you know if a PII Deschutes is C2 capable? In the acpi specification i can see that the programming model for c2 state is "Fixed Hardware Control Logic" which is integrated into the external chipset. Is the chipset the only dependency for c2-state, or is the processor a dependency too? I think so, of course, but its not clearly enough for me... Greetings Bjoern Schmidt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2004-03-14 15:11 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <A6974D8E5F98D511BB910002A50A6647615F47CB@hdsmsx402.hd.intel.com> 2004-03-09 6:58 ` fsb of older cpu Len Brown 2004-03-09 11:16 ` Bjoern Schmidt 2004-03-09 11:35 ` Stefan Smietanowski 2004-03-09 12:07 ` Bjoern Schmidt 2004-03-10 4:17 ` Len Brown 2004-03-11 13:53 ` [BUG] " Bjoern Schmidt 2004-03-14 15:11 ` Bjoern Schmidt
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