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From: Casey Schaufler <casey@schaufler-ca.com>
To: Stephen Smalley <sds@tycho.nsa.gov>, Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb@suse.de>
Cc: James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	Crispin Cowan <crispin@novell.com>, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>,
	Andreas Gruenbacher <agruen@suse.de>,
	jjohansen@suse.de, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [AppArmor 39/45] AppArmor: Profile loading and manipulation, pathname matching
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:06:06 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <981505.42017.qm@web36610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1182516111.24664.72.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil>


--- Stephen Smalley <sds@tycho.nsa.gov> wrote:

 
> Mandatory access control as historically understood has always meant
> system-wide.

Chapter and verse: TCSEC 3.1.1.4 Mandatory Access Control
  "The TCB shall enforce a mandatory access control policy over
   all subjects and storage objects under its control."

Chapter and verse: TCSEC 3.2.1.4 Mandatory Access Control
  "The TCB shall enforce a mandatory access control policy over
   all resources that are directly or indirectly accessible by
   subjects external to the TCB."

The first reference is in the definition of a B1 system, while the
second is for a B2 system. It was made clear to those of us
doing TCSEC evaluations that there is a very real distintion between
these two requirements. In the history that I've been through,
starting in 1987, the B1 requirement has been read to allow for
things that are not storage objects to be uncontrolled while the
B2 requirement does not. If everything is a storage object, which
is the approach everybody took, yes, you're looking at system wide.
If, on the other hand, you were to take a different model approach
and say that networking does not use storage objects you would not
have to account for them under the B1 rules, while you would still
have to for B2. Historically, no one succeeded with B2, and the
mindset of B1 prevailed. So, historically, the understanding was
that it was easier to declare everything a storage object and code
up some MAC for it than it was to provide a security model that
explained networking as it really works. I suggest that if AA wants
to declare that as far as they are concerned sockets, ports, and
packets are none of them storage objects but are instead pregnant
weasels that is their peragotive as system designers and that
a B1 evaluation team would have accepted that, provided sufficient
evidence and explaination of the relevence of pregnant weasels
was provided. It would not have worked at B2, but historically
everyone understood that B2 was out of reach.

Stephen is correct in that historically everyone implemented system
that put everything under MAC, but is not in that it was well
understood that if you could define something as not being a
storage object you didn't have to submit it to MAC. Then as now
it was easier to get people to code MAC than to get them to write
papers about the security properties of pregnant weasels.



Casey Schaufler
casey@schaufler-ca.com

  parent reply	other threads:[~2007-06-22 16:06 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 240+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-05-14 11:06 [AppArmor 00/45] AppArmor security module overview jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 01/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_create LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 02/45] Pass struct path down to remove_suid and children jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 03/45] Add a vfsmount parameter to notify_change() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 04/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_setattr LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 05/45] Add struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_mkdir() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 06/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_mkdir LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 07/45] Add a struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_mknod() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 08/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_mknod LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 09/45] Add a struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_symlink() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 10/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_symlink LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 11/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_readlink " jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 12/45] Add struct vfsmount parameters to vfs_link() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 13/45] Pass the struct vfsmounts to the inode_link LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 14/45] Add a struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_rmdir() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 15/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_rmdir LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 16/45] Call lsm hook before unhashing dentry in vfs_rmdir() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 17/45] Add a struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_unlink() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 18/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_unlink LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 19/45] Add struct vfsmount parameters to vfs_rename() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 20/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_rename LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 21/45] Add a struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_setxattr() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 22/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_setxattr LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 23/45] Add a struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_getxattr() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 24/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_getxattr LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 25/45] Add a struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_listxattr() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 26/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_listxattr LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 27/45] Add a struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_removexattr() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 28/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_removexattr LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 29/45] Fix __d_path() for lazy unmounts and make it unambiguous jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 30/45] Make d_path() consistent across mount operations jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 31/45] Add d_namespace_path() to compute namespace relative pathnames jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 32/45] Enable LSM hooks to distinguish operations on file descriptors from operations on pathnames jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 33/45] Pass struct file down the inode_*xattr security LSM hooks jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 34/45] Factor out sysctl pathname code jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 35/45] Allow permission functions to tell between parent and leaf checks jjohansen
2007-05-15  9:08   ` Pavel Machek
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 36/45] Export audit subsystem for use by modules jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 37/45] AppArmor: Main Part jjohansen
2007-05-15  9:12   ` Pavel Machek
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 38/45] AppArmor: Module and LSM hooks jjohansen
2007-05-15  9:14   ` Pavel Machek
2007-05-23 16:16     ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-04 10:55       ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-04 11:25         ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-04 11:35           ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-04 11:42             ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-04 13:12               ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-04 14:30                 ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-06 13:09                   ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-10 23:10                     ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-11 14:33                       ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-11 15:55                         ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-11 19:02                           ` Serge E. Hallyn
2007-06-12 13:00                             ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-12 15:34                               ` Serge E. Hallyn
2007-06-12  5:17                                 ` Karl MacMillan
2007-06-12 19:00                                   ` Serge E. Hallyn
2007-06-12 13:13                           ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-12 23:50                         ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-09 12:58                   ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-09 13:44                     ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-12 13:06                       ` Pavel Machek
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 39/45] AppArmor: Profile loading and manipulation, pathname matching jjohansen
2007-05-15  9:20   ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-04 21:03     ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-06 13:26       ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-06 17:32         ` Greg KH
2007-06-09 23:47           ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-08 22:03         ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-09  0:17           ` Greg KH
2007-06-09  1:06             ` david
2007-06-09  2:01               ` [AppArmor 39/45] AppArmor: Profile loading and manipulation,pathname matching Tetsuo Handa
2007-06-09  3:25                 ` Sean
2007-06-09  4:56                   ` david
2007-06-09  5:10                     ` Sean
2007-06-09  5:38                       ` david
2007-06-09  5:44                         ` Sean
2007-06-09  7:04                           ` david
2007-06-09  7:28                             ` Sean
2007-06-09  8:03                               ` david
2007-06-09  8:37                                 ` Sean
2007-06-14 17:01                                 ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-09 11:26                               ` [AppArmor 39/45] AppArmor: Profile loading andmanipulation,pathname matching Tetsuo Handa
2007-06-09 11:35                                 ` Sean
2007-06-09 13:41                                   ` david
2007-06-09 18:37                               ` [AppArmor 39/45] AppArmor: Profile loading and manipulation,pathname matching Casey Schaufler
2007-06-15 13:36                                 ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-10  8:34               ` [AppArmor 39/45] AppArmor: Profile loading and manipulation, pathname matching Pavel Machek
2007-06-10  9:04                 ` david
2007-06-10 20:04                   ` Casey Schaufler
2007-06-10 20:51                     ` Crispin Cowan
2007-06-11  6:45                       ` david
2007-06-11  8:29                         ` Sean
2007-06-11  9:33                           ` david
2007-06-11 11:34                             ` Sean
2007-06-11 11:00                         ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-10 21:05                   ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-11  6:27                     ` david
2007-06-14 19:16                       ` Jack Stone
2007-06-15  0:18                         ` david
2007-06-15 17:01                           ` Greg KH
2007-06-12 17:03                     ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-09  5:18             ` david
2007-06-09  5:46               ` Sean
2007-06-09  7:13                 ` david
2007-06-09  7:36                   ` Sean
2007-06-09  8:06                     ` david
2007-06-09  8:10                       ` Sean
2007-06-09 15:17                         ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-09 16:36                           ` Sean
2007-06-09 15:33                   ` Joshua Brindle
2007-06-09 16:18               ` Kyle Moffett
2007-06-09 16:46                 ` david
2007-06-09 17:06                   ` Kyle Moffett
2007-06-09 17:32                     ` david
2007-06-09 19:50                       ` Kyle Moffett
2007-06-09 20:43                         ` david
2007-06-10 20:54               ` Crispin Cowan
2007-06-10 21:17                 ` Joshua Brindle
2007-06-09 15:05             ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-10 17:09             ` Crispin Cowan
2007-06-15 16:50               ` Greg KH
2007-06-15 18:01                 ` Casey Schaufler
2007-06-15 18:15                   ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-15 20:43                     ` Casey Schaufler
2007-06-15 21:14                       ` Greg KH
2007-06-15 21:28                         ` Karl MacMillan
2007-06-15 21:44                           ` Greg KH
2007-06-15 22:24                             ` Karl MacMillan
2007-06-18 13:33                               ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-21 15:54                                 ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-15 22:37                         ` Casey Schaufler
2007-06-18 12:47                       ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-15 20:06                 ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-15 21:11                   ` Greg KH
2007-06-15 21:42                     ` James Morris
2007-06-15 23:50                       ` Greg KH
2007-06-16  1:21                         ` James Morris
2007-06-16  2:57                           ` Casey Schaufler
2007-06-16  3:39                             ` James Morris
2007-06-18  1:51                               ` Casey Schaufler
2007-06-18 11:29                                 ` Joshua Brindle
2007-06-16  4:23                           ` Greg KH
2007-06-15 23:30                     ` Crispin Cowan
2007-06-15 23:49                       ` Greg KH
2007-06-16  0:01                         ` david
2007-06-16  0:20                           ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-22  9:59                             ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-16  0:31                           ` Greg KH
2007-06-16  8:09                             ` david
2007-06-16 16:24                               ` Greg KH
2007-06-16  1:41                           ` James Morris
2007-06-16  0:18                         ` Seth Arnold
2007-06-16  0:29                           ` Greg KH
2007-06-16  1:46                           ` James Morris
2007-06-16  2:19                           ` James Morris
2007-06-18 18:48                         ` Crispin Cowan
2007-06-21 16:01                         ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-21 17:59                           ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-16  0:02                       ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-21 16:08                         ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-21 18:33                           ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-21 19:24                             ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-21 19:42                               ` James Morris
2007-06-21 19:54                                 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-21 20:59                                   ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-21 21:17                                     ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-22  0:16                                       ` Joshua Brindle
2007-06-22  0:19                                         ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-22  0:28                                         ` david
2007-06-22  3:45                                           ` Joshua Brindle
2007-06-22  5:07                                             ` david
2007-06-22 10:49                                             ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-22 11:19                                       ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-22 11:34                                         ` Neil Brown
2007-06-22 11:48                                           ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-22 11:37                                         ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-22 12:41                                           ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-22 12:54                                             ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-22 13:22                                               ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-22 14:49                                                 ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-22 16:06                                             ` Casey Schaufler [this message]
2007-06-22  0:34                                     ` Chris Mason
2007-06-22  1:06                                       ` James Morris
2007-06-22  4:17                                         ` Crispin Cowan
2007-06-22 12:20                                           ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-24 20:45                                             ` David Wagner
2007-06-22  7:40                                         ` John Johansen
2007-06-22 12:17                                         ` Chris Mason
2007-06-22 13:48                                           ` James Morris
2007-06-22 14:02                                             ` Chris Mason
2007-06-22 14:23                                               ` James Morris
2007-06-22 17:30                                                 ` Chris Mason
2007-06-23  0:11                                                   ` Chris Wright
2007-06-24  0:10                                                     ` Toshiharu Harada
2007-06-24  0:40                                                       ` Toshiharu Harada
2007-06-26 21:01                                                     ` Crispin Cowan
2007-06-24 20:43                                                   ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-22 18:12                                                 ` david
2007-06-25 15:14                                               ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-25 21:02                                                 ` david
2007-06-26  8:50                                                 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-24 21:16                                             ` David Wagner
2007-06-24 21:57                                               ` david
2007-06-28 18:13                                               ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-28 18:19                                               ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-24 21:45                                             ` David Wagner
2007-06-28 18:31                                               ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-24 21:20                                         ` David Wagner
2007-06-22  8:06                                     ` John Johansen
2007-06-22 11:53                                       ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-22 12:42                                         ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-22 12:46                                           ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-22 18:35                                         ` david
2007-06-24 20:48                                         ` David Wagner
2007-06-24 20:35                                     ` David Wagner
2007-06-21 20:07                               ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-21 20:21                                 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-21 23:25                                   ` John Johansen
2007-06-21 19:30                             ` david
2007-06-21 19:35                               ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-21 19:52                               ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-16  0:48                       ` [AppArmor 39/45] AppArmor: Profile loading and manipulation,pathname matching Tetsuo Handa
2007-06-19 15:25                         ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-15 23:33                   ` [AppArmor 39/45] AppArmor: Profile loading and manipulation, pathname matching Seth Arnold
2007-06-15 23:39                     ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-16  0:07                       ` Seth Arnold
2007-06-16 15:44                 ` [AppArmor 39/45] AppArmor: Profile loading and manipulation,pathname matching Tetsuo Handa
2007-06-16 16:26                   ` Greg KH
2007-06-16 16:45                     ` [AppArmor 39/45] AppArmor: Profile loading andmanipulation,pathname matching Tetsuo Handa
2007-06-11 15:16           ` [AppArmor 39/45] AppArmor: Profile loading and manipulation, pathname matching Stephen Smalley
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 40/45] AppArmor: all the rest jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 41/45] Add AppArmor LSM to security/Makefile jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 42/45] AppArmor: add lock subtyping so lockdep does not report false dependencies jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 43/45] Switch to vfs_permission() in do_path_lookup() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 44/45] Switch to vfs_permission() in sys_fchdir() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 45/45] Fix file_permission() jjohansen
2007-05-14 13:50 ` [AppArmor 00/45] AppArmor security module overview John Johansen
2007-10-26  6:40 jjohansen
2007-10-26  6:41 ` [AppArmor 39/45] AppArmor: Profile loading and manipulation, pathname matching jjohansen

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