Re: Test mail

Re: Test mail

[Per Jessen]

>On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:19:17 -0400 (EDT), Albert D. Cahalan wrote:
>
>Torrey Hoffman writes:
>
>> I hate to jump in and extend this mostly off-topic thread, but I would be
>> a little annoyed if Outlook was banned from LKML.  I've got two machines
>> on my desk here at work - one is Win2K, and is used almost exclusively for 
>> Outlook and Word.  It's very difficult to give those up when the rest of
>> the company uses them extensively.  The automatic meeting scheduling and
>> other MS Exchange features of Outlook are not available in other clients, 
>> and why should I switch when Outlook works fine?  

Completely agree. I am in the exact same situation. I need/want to follow
Linux development, but my corporate desktop is MS, Outlook etc. 
What's wrong with that ? (my development systems are not connected to 
anything else but our internal network.)

>> Of course the other computer runs Linux, and is where all my real work
>> gets done.  It's convenient to have both environments.
>
>This does not mean you have to use Outlook to _send_ mail to
>the linux-kernel mailing list. Do this:
>
>1. log into the Linux box you have
>2. run emacs
>3. Control-x m
>4. fill in the header fields and write your message
>5. Control-c Control-c

Bollocks. Look, the main target here is practicality, and what
you just demonstrated was plainly impractical.

>If you really must send mail directly from the Windows box,
>get emacs for Windows and skip step 1 above.

This is an awful lot of effort just to overcome some peoples
failure to avoid double-clicking on attachments in Outlook.

>
>BTW, if you can't log into anything that can open an SMTP connection
>to the outside world and don't have a relay, then most likely your
>employer doesn't want you sending stuff to linux-kernel anyway.

Disagree. See above and join life in the real world.


regards,
Per Jessen, Zurich.

regards,
Per Jessen

Re: Test mail

[William Scott Lockwood III]

Basically, I use a hotmail and Outlook Express to help me SORT messages
on LKML.  It makes it MUCH easier for me to find the messages I want to
read vs the rest of the noise that I don't understand yet.

One thing is certain:  It is impossible to have a collection of geeks
this large, and not have some of them display the sort of egotistical
attitude that makes them go "Oh, he's using OE?  Well, I shall thumb my
nose in his general direction!  We should only allow
<Pine|Mutt|Emacs|Other> on this list.  Sniff.  Sniff.".

Just ignore it.  I do.  I learn more and more from this list everyday,
and if someone doesn't want to read what I have to say because of the
software I use to read the list, then I guess I'm not all that
interested in them reading it anyway.  :-)

Regards,
Scott
webmaster, http://www.geekizoid.com/ <-- Running Linux...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Per Jessen" <per@computer.org>
To: <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: Test mail


| >On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:19:17 -0400 (EDT), Albert D. Cahalan wrote:
| >
| >Torrey Hoffman writes:
| >
| >> I hate to jump in and extend this mostly off-topic thread, but I
would be
| >> a little annoyed if Outlook was banned from LKML.  I've got two
machines
| >> on my desk here at work - one is Win2K, and is used almost
exclusively for
| >> Outlook and Word.  It's very difficult to give those up when the
rest of
| >> the company uses them extensively.  The automatic meeting
scheduling and
| >> other MS Exchange features of Outlook are not available in other
clients,
| >> and why should I switch when Outlook works fine?
|
| Completely agree. I am in the exact same situation. I need/want to
follow
| Linux development, but my corporate desktop is MS, Outlook etc.
| What's wrong with that ? (my development systems are not connected to
| anything else but our internal network.)
|
| >> Of course the other computer runs Linux, and is where all my real
work
| >> gets done.  It's convenient to have both environments.
| >
| >This does not mean you have to use Outlook to _send_ mail to
| >the linux-kernel mailing list. Do this:
| >
| >1. log into the Linux box you have
| >2. run emacs
| >3. Control-x m
| >4. fill in the header fields and write your message
| >5. Control-c Control-c
|
| Bollocks. Look, the main target here is practicality, and what
| you just demonstrated was plainly impractical.
|
| >If you really must send mail directly from the Windows box,
| >get emacs for Windows and skip step 1 above.
|
| This is an awful lot of effort just to overcome some peoples
| failure to avoid double-clicking on attachments in Outlook.
|
| >
| >BTW, if you can't log into anything that can open an SMTP connection
| >to the outside world and don't have a relay, then most likely your
| >employer doesn't want you sending stuff to linux-kernel anyway.
|
| Disagree. See above and join life in the real world.
|
|
| regards,
| Per Jessen, Zurich.
|
| regards,
| Per Jessen

Re: Test mail

[christophe barbé]

Le lun, 30 jui 2001 22:23:03, William Scott Lockwood III a écrit :
> Basically, I use a hotmail and Outlook Express to help me SORT messages
> on LKML.  It makes it MUCH easier for me to find the messages I want to
> read vs the rest of the noise that I don't understand yet.

Sick ...

And btw you should read the various HotMail agreements you have signed.

Re: Test mail

[William Scott Lockwood III]

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Sick?  No.

As much as we dislike M$'s marketing practices, one has to admit that
they DO come up with some GOOD solutions to problems, they just bundle
them into BAD implementations that are non-free.

As I said earlier, the problem isn't hotmail - the problem is attitudes
like yours.

Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "christophe barbé" <christophe.barbe@lineo.fr>
To: <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 3:34 AM
Subject: Re: Test mail



Le lun, 30 jui 2001 22:23:03, William Scott Lockwood III a écrit :
> Basically, I use a hotmail and Outlook Express to help me SORT
messages
> on LKML.  It makes it MUCH easier for me to find the messages I want
to
> read vs the rest of the noise that I don't understand yet.

Sick ...

And btw you should read the various HotMail agreements you have signed.
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel"
in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Re: Test mail

[christophe barbé]

Hi William Scott Lockwood III,

In your mails, you use outlook and hotmail together.
This is a mistake.

Outlook is a "not so bad idea" but which comes with a collection of
security holes. Eudora is definetly a better choice.

Hotmail is a http-based mail owned by microsoft. And all contents which go
in it become potential Microsoft content (there's a kind of implicit
copyright transfert between you end Microsoft).
You should read carrefully what you have (implicitly perhaps) signed.
You should avoid Hotmail. This is not related to M$ against Linux but to
your rights (to access and only you to your data)  against M$ profits. From
the Microsoft point of view, Hotmail License is an improvment over the way
they lock their clients by using proprietary (embraced-and-extanded)
protocols and standarts.  
Hotmail was the first site to use Microsoft Passport, which is the a draft
of .Net. If you accept Hotmail today you will accept the worst of .Net
tomorrow.

btw You said that Microsoft comes with good solutions.
This view (linux is not user friendly) is partly wrong because what is said
to be not user friendly is caused by people not accepting differences.
M$ users are scared by what we call the unix-way.

To conclude and I will stop following this thread, I'm against adding IQ
test in the lkml subscribe process.

Christophe

PS: I don't remember the name but there is a unix tool that provide
everything for MsExchange sharing facilities.

Le mar, 31 jui 2001 13:42:20, William Scott Lockwood III a écrit :
> Sick?  No.
> 
> As much as we dislike M$'s marketing practices, one has to admit that
> they DO come up with some GOOD solutions to problems, they just bundle
> them into BAD implementations that are non-free.
> 
> As I said earlier, the problem isn't hotmail - the problem is attitudes
> like yours.
> 
> Scott
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "christophe barbé" <christophe.barbe@lineo.fr>
> To: <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 3:34 AM
> Subject: Re: Test mail
> 
> 
> 
> Le lun, 30 jui 2001 22:23:03, William Scott Lockwood III a écrit :
> > Basically, I use a hotmail and Outlook Express to help me SORT
> messages
> > on LKML.  It makes it MUCH easier for me to find the messages I want
> to
> > read vs the rest of the noise that I don't understand yet.
> 
> Sick ...
> 
> And btw you should read the various HotMail agreements you have signed.
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel"
> in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> 
> 
-- 
Christophe Barbé
Software Engineer - christophe.barbe@lineo.fr
Lineo France - Lineo High Availability Group
42-46, rue Médéric - 92110 Clichy - France
phone (33).1.41.40.02.12 - fax (33).1.41.40.02.01
http://www.lineo.com

[OT] Test mail

[William Scott Lockwood III]

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Think what you like.

No matter what a shrink wrap (or Click-Wrap) agreement states, license
agreements can not, and do not invalidate my rights (and my copyright)
to what I write myself.  Not in the country anyway.

The problem is a combination of over zealousness and bigotry.  Period.
Use what you like, please allow me to do the same.

Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "christophe barbé" <christophe.barbe@lineo.fr>
To: "William Scott Lockwood III" <scottlockwood@hotmail.com>
Cc: <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: Test mail


Hi William Scott Lockwood III,

In your mails, you use outlook and hotmail together.
This is a mistake.

Outlook is a "not so bad idea" but which comes with a collection of
security holes. Eudora is definetly a better choice.

Hotmail is a http-based mail owned by microsoft. And all contents which
go
in it become potential Microsoft content (there's a kind of implicit
copyright transfert between you end Microsoft).
You should read carrefully what you have (implicitly perhaps) signed.
You should avoid Hotmail. This is not related to M$ against Linux but to
your rights (to access and only you to your data)  against M$ profits.
From
the Microsoft point of view, Hotmail License is an improvment over the
way
they lock their clients by using proprietary (embraced-and-extanded)
protocols and standarts.
Hotmail was the first site to use Microsoft Passport, which is the a
draft
of .Net. If you accept Hotmail today you will accept the worst of .Net
tomorrow.

btw You said that Microsoft comes with good solutions.
This view (linux is not user friendly) is partly wrong because what is
said
to be not user friendly is caused by people not accepting differences.
M$ users are scared by what we call the unix-way.

To conclude and I will stop following this thread, I'm against adding IQ
test in the lkml subscribe process.

Christophe

PS: I don't remember the name but there is a unix tool that provide
everything for MsExchange sharing facilities.

Le mar, 31 jui 2001 13:42:20, William Scott Lockwood III a écrit :
> Sick?  No.
>
> As much as we dislike M$'s marketing practices, one has to admit that
> they DO come up with some GOOD solutions to problems, they just bundle
> them into BAD implementations that are non-free.
>
> As I said earlier, the problem isn't hotmail - the problem is
attitudes
> like yours.
>
> Scott
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "christophe barbé" <christophe.barbe@lineo.fr>
> To: <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 3:34 AM
> Subject: Re: Test mail
>
>
>
> Le lun, 30 jui 2001 22:23:03, William Scott Lockwood III a écrit :
> > Basically, I use a hotmail and Outlook Express to help me SORT
> messages
> > on LKML.  It makes it MUCH easier for me to find the messages I want
> to
> > read vs the rest of the noise that I don't understand yet.
>
> Sick ...
>
> And btw you should read the various HotMail agreements you have
signed.
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe
linux-kernel"
> in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>
>
--
Christophe Barbé
Software Engineer - christophe.barbe@lineo.fr
Lineo France - Lineo High Availability Group
42-46, rue Médéric - 92110 Clichy - France
phone (33).1.41.40.02.12 - fax (33).1.41.40.02.01
http://www.lineo.com
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel"
in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Re: Test mail

[Alexander V. Bilichenko]

Is too silly to speak about what you most likely did not see at all.  All
security BUGS can be fixed checking "more restricted". If it configured
correctly all should be ok.
I use Outlook and I have never been infected with any email virus because of
it.
Best regards,
       Alexander      mailto:dmor@7ka.mipt.ru
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets start the war, said Meggy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "christophe barbé" <christophe.barbe@lineo.fr>
To: <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: Test mail


>
> Le lun, 30 jui 2001 22:23:03, William Scott Lockwood III a écrit :
> > Basically, I use a hotmail and Outlook Express to help me SORT messages
> > on LKML.  It makes it MUCH easier for me to find the messages I want to
> > read vs the rest of the noise that I don't understand yet.
>
> Sick ...
>
> And btw you should read the various HotMail agreements you have signed.
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>

OT: M$Exchange stuff for Linux/UNIX? [was: Re: Test mail]

[Paul G. Allen]

Sorry for the OT post folks, but...

christophe barbé wrote:

> 
> Christophe
> 
> PS: I don't remember the name but there is a unix tool that provide
> everything for MsExchange sharing facilities.
> 

You struck a chord here. I am forced to use Exchange here at work for my company e-mail (which would be pallen@akamai.com). I much prefer to use any Linux/UNIX
(I have a solaris box here as well) mail client and say off of Outhouse/Windows.

>From what you say above, and maybe I'm misreading it, there are applications out there that will allow me to do Exchange stuff on Linux? Someone please tell me
more.

Thanks,

PGA

-- 
Paul G. Allen
UNIX Admin II/Programmer
Akamai Technologies, Inc.
www.akamai.com
Work: (858)909-3630
Cell: (858)395-5043

[OT] Re: OT: M$Exchange stuff for Linux/UNIX? [was: Re: Test mail]

[J Sloan]

"Paul G. Allen" wrote:

> Sorry for the OT post folks, but...

> From what you say above, and maybe I'm misreading it, there are applications out there that will allow me to do Exchange stuff on Linux? Someone please tell me
> more.

HP Openmail was essentially a drop-in replacement
for MS exchange, but ran on Unix, including Linux.

Incredibly, as the HP engineers I know have related,
HP accepted a deal from microsoft that required them
to dump Openmail and go to ms exchange, so the HP
management "knifed the baby" and killed off a really
nice product.

Last I heard, Openmail is still available, but deprecated.
There was talk that microsoft would kill any attempt to sell
Openmail to a 3rd party, since the idea is to eliminate
alternatives to exchange.

Sadly,

jjs

Re: OT: M$Exchange stuff for Linux/UNIX? [was: Re: Test mail]

[Thomas Duffy]

On 31 Jul 2001 14:02:05 -0700, Paul G. Allen wrote:

> From what you say above, and maybe I'm misreading it, there are applications out there that will allow me to do Exchange stuff on Linux? Someone please tell me
> more.

well, evolution 11.99 will "theoretically" import exchange calendar
appointments
and stick them into your calendar.  this works almost every other time
:)

and I use a perl based script that queries the global address book
called pabber.

I have not found something that will interact smoothly with the server
based
personal address book or calendar.  so, if anyone knows of such a
program, please, please,
please let the world know (or at least me :)

-tduffy

Re: [OT] Re: OT: M$Exchange stuff for Linux/UNIX? [was: Re: Test mail]

[Alex Buell]

On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, J Sloan wrote:

> There was talk that microsoft would kill any attempt to sell Openmail
> to a 3rd party, since the idea is to eliminate alternatives to
> exchange.

HP will continue to support OpemMail for at least five more years. Please,
recommend it to your employers. If they get a significant income from
people who take up OpenMail, it will wake up people at HP.

It would be nice if HP stuck it to M$ up the arse by releasing it as open
source when the five years' are up.

-- 
Hey, they *are* out to get you, but it's nothing personal.

http://www.tahallah.demon.co.uk

Re: OT: M$Exchange stuff for Linux/UNIX? [was: Re: Test mail]

[James Simmons]

> I have not found something that will interact smoothly with the server
> based
> personal address book or calendar.  so, if anyone knows of such a
> program, please, please,
> please let the world know (or at least me :)

The best thing I can recommend is syncml (http://www.syncml.org). I heard
their are syncml plugins avaliable since people want to have all their
exchange functionality on their cell phones.  

Re: [OT] Re: OT: M$Exchange stuff for Linux/UNIX? [was: Re: Test mail]

[Horst von Brand]

J Sloan <jjs@toyota.com> said:

[...]

> Last I heard, Openmail is still available, but deprecated.
> There was talk that microsoft would kill any attempt to sell
> Openmail to a 3rd party,

How about "giving it as a gift" instead of "selling"? ;-)

>                          since the idea is to eliminate
> alternatives to exchange.

Oops...
-- 
Dr. Horst H. von Brand                Usuario #22616 counter.li.org
Departamento de Informatica                     Fono: +56 32 654431
Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria              +56 32 654239
Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile                Fax:  +56 32 797513

Re: OT: M$Exchange stuff for Linux/UNIX? [was: Re: Test mail]

[christophe barbé]

I was thinking about a news in LWN.
I've made a search on it and finally found the news :

http://lwn.net/2000/0427/devel.phtml#devel
Browsers and Mail support

TradeClient 0.2beta released. Bynari International has announced the final
pre-release of its TradeClient email client and personal information
manager. Tradeclient is aimed at people accustomed to or currently using
Microsoft Exchange. TradeClient is released under the LGPL. Note that a
proprietary product, Bynari TradeXCH, is required in order to connect
Tradeclient to Microsoft Exchange.

Apparently the project is now open source and hosted by sourceforge:
http://tradeclient.sourceforge.net/

I'm not sure that it was not a PR "à la Microsoft".

Friendly,
Christophe
 
Le mar, 31 jui 2001 23:02:05, Paul G. Allen a écrit :
> Sorry for the OT post folks, but...
> 
> christophe barbé wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Christophe
> > 
> > PS: I don't remember the name but there is a unix tool that provide
> > everything for MsExchange sharing facilities.
> > 
> 
> You struck a chord here. I am forced to use Exchange here at work for my
> company e-mail (which would be pallen@akamai.com). I much prefer to use
> any Linux/UNIX
> (I have a solaris box here as well) mail client and say off of
> Outhouse/Windows.
> 
> >From what you say above, and maybe I'm misreading it, there are
> applications out there that will allow me to do Exchange stuff on Linux?
> Someone please tell me
> more.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> PGA
> 
> -- 
> Paul G. Allen
> UNIX Admin II/Programmer
> Akamai Technologies, Inc.
> www.akamai.com
> Work: (858)909-3630
> Cell: (858)395-5043
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel"
> in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> 
-- 
Christophe Barbé
Software Engineer - christophe.barbe@lineo.fr
Lineo France - Lineo High Availability Group
42-46, rue Médéric - 92110 Clichy - France
phone (33).1.41.40.02.12 - fax (33).1.41.40.02.01
http://www.lineo.com

Re: OT: M$Exchange stuff for Linux/UNIX? [was: Re: Test mail]

[D. R. Holsbeck]

you could allways try and get them tu turn on the
pop3 port in exchange. this allows you to use any 
standard pop3 client to get your mail. but no 
scheduling, calendar, etc.

"Paul G. Allen" wrote:
> 
> Sorry for the OT post folks, but...
> 
> christophe barbé wrote:
> 
> >
> > Christophe
> >
> > PS: I don't remember the name but there is a unix tool that provide
> > everything for MsExchange sharing facilities.
> >
> 
> You struck a chord here. I am forced to use Exchange here at work for my company e-mail (which would be pallen@akamai.com). I much prefer to use any Linux/UNIX
> (I have a solaris box here as well) mail client and say off of Outhouse/Windows.

-- 
drh@niptron.com

"Necessity is the mother of taking chances."
--Mark Twain.