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From: Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>
To: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
Cc: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	Mathias Krause <minipli@googlemail.com>,
	"kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com" 
	<kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com>,
	Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>,
	Hoeun Ryu <hoeun.ryu@gmail.com>, PaX Team <pageexec@freemail.hu>,
	Emese Revfy <re.emese@gmail.com>,
	Russell King <linux@armlinux.org.uk>, X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org" 
	<linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
Subject: Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [RFC v2][PATCH 04/11] x86: Implement __arch_rare_write_begin/unmap()
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2017 14:20:45 -0700
Message-ID: <CAGXu5jLXB4J_ZGCKF0WD2SNTGyam8-tP5K1iYChW8wZEtAVM2A@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1704072125460.1958@nanos>

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 1:44 PM, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de> wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Apr 2017, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 6:30 AM, Mathias Krause <minipli@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> > On 7 April 2017 at 15:14, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de> wrote:
>> >> I really do not care whether PaX wants to chase and verify that over and
>> >> over. I certainly don't want to take the chance to leak CR0.WP ever and I
>> >> very much care about extra stuff to check in the entry/exit path.
>> >
>> > Fair enough. However, placing a BUG_ON(!(read_cr0() & X86_CR0_WP))
>> > somewhere sensible should make those "leaks" visible fast -- and their
>> > exploitation impossible, i.e. fail hard.
>>
>> The leaks surely exist and now we'll just add an exploitable BUG.
>
> :)
>
>> I think we're approaching this all wrong, actually.  The fact that x86
>> has this CR0.WP thing is arguably a historical accident, and the fact
>> that PaX uses it doesn't mean that PaX is doing it the best way for
>> upstream Linux.
>
> As I said before. It should be fused to 1.
>
>> Why don't we start at the other end and do a generic non-arch-specific
>> implementation: set up an mm_struct that contains an RW alias of the
>> relevant parts of rodata and use use_mm to access it.  (That is,
>> get_fs() to back up the old fs, set_fs(USER_DS),
>> use_mm(&rare_write_mm), do the write using copy_to_user, undo
>> everything.)
>
> That works too, though I'm not sure that it's more efficient than
> temporarily creating and undoing a single cpu local alias mapping similar
> to the kmap_atomic mechanism in the highmem case.
>
> Aside of that the alias mapping requires a full PGDIR entry unless you want
> to get into the mess of keeping yet another identity mapping up to date.

I probably chose the wrong name for this feature (write rarely).
That's _usually_ true, but "sensitive_write()" was getting rather
long. The things that we need to protect with this are certainly stuff
that doesn't get much writing, but some things are just plain
sensitive (like page tables) and we should still try to be as fast as
possible with them.

I'll try to include a third example in the next posting of the series
that makes this more obvious.

I'm all for a general case for the infrastructure (as Andy and Mark
has mentioned), but I don't want to get into the situation where
people start refusing to use it because it's "too slow" (for example,
see refcount_t vs net-dev right now).

-Kees

-- 
Kees Cook
Pixel Security

  reply index

Thread overview: 63+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-03-29 18:15 [RFC v2] Introduce rare_write() infrastructure Kees Cook
2017-03-29 18:15 ` [RFC v2][PATCH 01/11] " Kees Cook
2017-03-29 18:23   ` Kees Cook
2017-03-30  7:44     ` Ho-Eun Ryu
2017-03-30 17:02       ` Kees Cook
2017-04-07  8:09   ` Ho-Eun Ryu
2017-04-07 20:38     ` Kees Cook
2017-03-29 18:15 ` [RFC v2][PATCH 02/11] lkdtm: add test for " Kees Cook
2017-03-30  9:34   ` [kernel-hardening] " Ian Campbell
2017-03-30 16:16     ` Kees Cook
2017-03-29 18:15 ` [RFC v2][PATCH 03/11] net: switch sock_diag handlers to rare_write() Kees Cook
2017-03-29 18:15 ` [RFC v2][PATCH 04/11] x86: Implement __arch_rare_write_begin/unmap() Kees Cook
2017-03-29 22:38   ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-03-30  1:41     ` Kees Cook
2017-04-05 23:57       ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-04-06  0:14         ` Kees Cook
2017-04-06 15:59           ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-04-07  8:34             ` [kernel-hardening] " Mathias Krause
2017-04-07  9:46               ` Thomas Gleixner
2017-04-07 10:51                 ` Mathias Krause
2017-04-07 13:14                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2017-04-07 13:30                     ` Mathias Krause
2017-04-07 16:14                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-04-07 16:22                         ` Mark Rutland
2017-04-07 19:58                         ` PaX Team
2017-04-08  4:58                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-04-09 12:47                             ` PaX Team
2017-04-10  0:10                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-04-10 10:42                                 ` PaX Team
2017-04-10 16:01                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-04-07 20:44                         ` Thomas Gleixner
2017-04-07 21:20                           ` Kees Cook [this message]
2017-04-08  4:12                             ` Daniel Micay
2017-04-08  4:13                               ` Daniel Micay
2017-04-08  4:21                         ` Daniel Micay
2017-04-08  5:07                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-04-08  7:33                             ` Daniel Micay
2017-04-08 15:20                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-04-09 10:53                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-04-10 10:22                                 ` Mark Rutland
2017-04-09 20:24                             ` PaX Team
2017-04-10  0:31                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-04-10 19:47                                 ` PaX Team
2017-04-10 20:27                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-04-10 20:13                               ` Kees Cook
2017-04-10 20:17                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-04-07 19:25                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2017-04-07 14:45                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-04-10 10:29                     ` Mark Rutland
2017-04-07 19:52                 ` PaX Team
2017-04-10  8:26                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2017-04-10 19:55                     ` PaX Team
2017-04-07  9:37   ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-03-29 18:15 ` [RFC v2][PATCH 05/11] ARM: mm: dump: Add domain to output Kees Cook
2017-03-29 18:15 ` [RFC v2][PATCH 06/11] ARM: domains: Extract common USER domain init Kees Cook
2017-03-29 18:15 ` [RFC v2][PATCH 07/11] ARM: mm: set DOMAIN_WR_RARE for rodata Kees Cook
2017-03-29 18:16 ` [RFC v2][PATCH 08/11] ARM: Implement __arch_rare_write_begin/end() Kees Cook
2017-04-07  9:36   ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-03-29 18:16 ` [RFC v2][PATCH 09/11] list: add rare_write() list helpers Kees Cook
2017-03-29 18:16 ` [RFC v2][PATCH 10/11] gcc-plugins: Add constify plugin Kees Cook
2017-03-29 18:16 ` [RFC v2][PATCH 11/11] cgroups: force all struct cftype const Kees Cook
2017-03-29 19:00 ` [RFC v2] Introduce rare_write() infrastructure Russell King - ARM Linux
2017-03-29 19:14   ` Kees Cook

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