linux-kernel.vger.kernel.org archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Len Brown <lenb@kernel.org>
To: Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>
Cc: Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>, Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	Florian Weimer <fweimer@redhat.com>,
	"Bae, Chang Seok" <chang.seok.bae@intel.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>, X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-abi@vger.kernel.org,
	"libc-alpha@sourceware.org" <libc-alpha@sourceware.org>,
	Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org>, Kyle Huey <me@kylehuey.com>,
	Keno Fischer <keno@juliacomputing.com>
Subject: Re: Candidate Linux ABI for Intel AMX and hypothetical new related features
Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 11:27:26 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJvTdKnhXnynybS4eNEF_EtF26auyb-mhKLNd1D9_zvCrchZsw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YIMmwhEr46VPAZa4@zn.tnic>

On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 3:58 PM Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 03:35:30PM -0400, Len Brown wrote:
> > Yes.  If a library decides to execute AMX instructions on behalf
> > of a task, the kernel will allocate an 8KB context switch buffer
> > on behalf of that task.
>
> Again, the library should ask the kernel first whether it supports AMX.
> And the process should decide whether to use AMX - not the library on
> its own, on behalf of the process.
>
> > Granted, if you find a reason to dislike AMX, the mechanisms to disable
> > it today are on a system-wide basis, not on a process or task basis.
>
> Again, I don't dislike the feature. I don't want libraries jumping on
> new features without asking the process or the kernel first especially
> when those features have performance implications and need kernel
> support.

Here is how it works:

1. The kernel boots and sees the feature in CPUID.

2. If the kernel supports that feature, it sets XCR0[feature].

    For some features, there may be a bunch of kernel support,
    while simple features may require only state save/restore.

2a.  If the kernel doesn't support the feature, XCR0[feature] remains cleared.

3. user-space sees the feature in CPUID

4. user-space sees for the feature via xgetbv[XCR0]

5. If the feature is enabled in XCR0, the user happily uses it.

    For AMX, Linux implements "transparent first use"
    so that it doesn't have to allocate 8KB context switch
    buffers for tasks that don't actually use AMX.
    It does this by arming XFD for all tasks, and taking a #NM
    to allocate a context switch buffer only for those tasks
    that actually execute AMX instructions.

5a. If the feature is not enabled in XCR0, and the tasks uses
    those instructions anway, the hardware delivers a #UD
    and the kernel kills the process with a signal.

So you already have what you want, WRT user-space being
required to ask the kernel if the feature is supported.
When the kernel sets XCR0[feature], it tells user-space
that the kernel supports the feature; and there is no
way that user space can use the feature if the kernel
did not set that bit.

System calls before (and after) using a feature are not necessary,
and would only degrade performance over the existing ABI.

Regarding performance implications...
The system administrator is empowered to enable or disable
a feature in BIOS (clears CPUID bit) or in the kernel
(clears XCR0 bit) if they don't like it.
Yes, this is a per-system decision, rather than a per-process
or a per-thread decision.

So the only thing you don't have that you asked for is a
way for the main process to control what instructions are
used by the libraries that it links with.  That one is above
my pay grade.  Does the application have a *choice*
of which libraries they link with?

cheers,
Len Brown, Intel Open Source Technology Center

  reply	other threads:[~2021-05-02 15:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 130+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-03-26 23:12 Candidate Linux ABI for Intel AMX and hypothetical new related features Andy Lutomirski
2021-03-26 23:18 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-03-27  3:39   ` Len Brown
2021-03-27  9:14     ` Borislav Petkov
2021-03-27  9:58     ` Greg KH
2021-03-29 15:47       ` Len Brown
2021-03-29 16:38         ` Len Brown
2021-03-29 16:48           ` Florian Weimer
2021-03-29 18:14           ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-03-29 18:16         ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-03-29 22:38           ` Len Brown
2021-03-30  5:08             ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-03-30  5:50               ` Noah Goldstein
2021-03-30 17:01               ` Len Brown
2021-03-30 17:05                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-03-30 17:56                   ` Len Brown
2021-03-30 19:12                     ` Dave Hansen
2021-03-30 20:20                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-03-30 20:42                         ` Len Brown
2021-03-30 22:01                           ` David Laight
2021-03-31 16:31                             ` Len Brown
2021-03-31 16:53                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-03-31 21:42                                 ` Robert O'Callahan
2021-03-31 22:11                                   ` Len Brown
2021-03-31 22:28                                 ` Len Brown
2021-03-31 22:45                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-09 20:52                                     ` Len Brown
2021-04-09 21:44                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-11 19:07                                         ` Len Brown
2021-04-12  7:59                                           ` David Laight
2021-04-12 12:19                                           ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-12 17:14                                           ` Sean Christopherson
2021-03-31 22:52                                   ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-09 20:55                                     ` Len Brown
2021-03-28  0:53   ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-03-29  7:27     ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-03-29 15:06     ` Dave Hansen
2021-03-31  8:24 ` Borislav Petkov
     [not found] ` <87lf9nk2ku.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com>
2021-04-12 14:31   ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-12 14:38     ` Florian Weimer
2021-04-12 15:08       ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-12 15:10       ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-12 15:21   ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-12 23:46     ` Len Brown
2021-04-13  0:17       ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-13  1:25         ` Len Brown
2021-04-13  3:43       ` Willy Tarreau
2021-04-13 19:51         ` Len Brown
2021-04-14  9:58           ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-14 10:06             ` Willy Tarreau
2021-04-14 10:08               ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-14 21:57             ` Len Brown
2021-04-15  4:43               ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-15  5:29                 ` Willy Tarreau
2021-04-15  5:47                   ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-16 22:05                     ` Len Brown
2021-04-19 14:14                       ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-19 18:18                         ` Len Brown
2021-04-19 19:15                           ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-19 21:33                             ` Len Brown
2021-04-19 21:58                               ` Borislav Petkov
2021-04-23 19:35                                 ` Len Brown
2021-04-23 19:57                                   ` Borislav Petkov
2021-05-02 15:27                                     ` Len Brown [this message]
2021-05-03  5:18                                       ` Florian Weimer
2021-05-03 13:43                                         ` Dave Hansen
2021-05-03 13:47                                           ` Florian Weimer
2021-05-03 14:14                                             ` Dave Hansen
2021-05-07 18:44                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-07 18:50                                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-05-07 19:22                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-08  9:45                                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-18 20:39                                         ` Len Brown
2021-05-19 23:29                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-05-20 19:16                                             ` Len Brown
2021-05-17  9:45                                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-17  9:56                                         ` Florian Weimer
2021-05-17 10:18                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-21 16:29                                           ` Len Brown
2021-05-17 13:49                                         ` Arjan van de Ven
2021-05-20 15:35                                         ` Len Brown
2021-05-20 20:54                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-20 21:13                                             ` Dave Hansen
2021-05-20 21:41                                               ` Len Brown
2021-05-20 22:53                                                 ` Dave Hansen
2021-05-21  9:41                                                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-21 14:44                                                   ` Florian Weimer
2021-05-21 14:49                                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-23 15:06                                                       ` Florian Weimer
2021-06-23 23:11                                                         ` Len Brown
2021-06-28 10:14                                                           ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-06-28 12:49                                                             ` Florian Weimer
2021-06-30 12:22                                                               ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-06-30 12:41                                                                 ` Willy Tarreau
2021-06-30 13:55                                                                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2021-06-30 15:20                                                                   ` Len Brown
2021-06-30 15:25                                                                   ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-05-21 16:14                                                     ` Dave Hansen
2021-05-21 16:19                                                       ` Florian Weimer
2021-05-21 16:26                                                         ` Len Brown
2021-05-21 16:28                                                         ` Dave Hansen
2021-05-21 16:31                                                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-05-21 19:10                                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-21 20:07                                                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-05-21 21:43                                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-21 22:07                                                             ` Len Brown
2021-05-21 22:46                                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-21 23:31                                                                 ` Len Brown
2021-05-22  7:16                                                                   ` Florian Weimer
2021-05-22 23:55                                                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-05-21 23:06                                                               ` Dave Hansen
2021-05-21 23:08                                                                 ` Len Brown
2021-05-21 19:05                                                         ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-20 21:22                                             ` Len Brown
2021-05-20 21:41                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-05-20 21:49                                                 ` Len Brown
2021-05-21  9:26                                                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-19 23:52                               ` Paul Eggert
2021-04-13 20:16       ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-13 22:47         ` Len Brown
2021-04-13 22:58           ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-14 21:48             ` Len Brown
2021-04-15 16:24               ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-15 17:00                 ` Dave Hansen
2021-04-15 17:38                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-16 21:54                 ` Len Brown
2021-04-16 22:03                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-16 22:10                     ` Len Brown
2021-04-16 22:14                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-04-17  1:57                         ` Len Brown

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=CAJvTdKnhXnynybS4eNEF_EtF26auyb-mhKLNd1D9_zvCrchZsw@mail.gmail.com \
    --to=lenb@kernel.org \
    --cc=bp@alien8.de \
    --cc=chang.seok.bae@intel.com \
    --cc=dalias@libc.org \
    --cc=dave.hansen@intel.com \
    --cc=fweimer@redhat.com \
    --cc=keno@juliacomputing.com \
    --cc=libc-alpha@sourceware.org \
    --cc=linux-abi@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=luto@kernel.org \
    --cc=me@kylehuey.com \
    --cc=w@1wt.eu \
    --cc=x86@kernel.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).